Roguish Don't play at Playtechs unless your winnings in bank drafts!

cyprean

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Don't play at Playtechs unless you want your winnings sent to you in bank drafts! This warning is now valid for even the bigger and more reputable Playtech casinos.

First I thought this bank draft non-sense was only relevant with the semi-Roguish Playtechs that constantly keep bombing my mailbox with constant reload offers. This group's name's first letter starts with the letter E They spam a lot. I was recently proven that this bank draft non-sense is also valid with the large and reputable sites.

What I mean by this is that the casinos hate winners - they will do whatever it takes to make the payment slower and more annoying so that the player next time decides to gamble it all away or reverse withdrawal.

Recently I played at a big and a very reputable Playtech casino and got the bank draft treatment. The reason I chose them in the first place was because they were reputable and not going to do any tricks. After my withdrawal request I sent them the required documents. Following the confirmed verification they delayed the payments of my winnings by over a week. After the verification I e-mailed them asking why they were delaying my payment. Then finally I got an e-mail from them that the withdrawal was processed by bank draft! I specifically deposited with an e-wallet, and requested the withdrawal back to the same e-wallet.

If I had wanted bank drafts I would have requested them myself. Bank drafts takes ages to arrive (this could be because casinos intentionally delay payments) Banks really hate bank drafts and charge ridicilous amounts to cash them in. Some banks dont even accept them. They ask why payment wasn't done by wire. Bank drafts are also only valid for a short period time so forget about a longer holiday - you have to cash them before they expire.

There's not much a player can do after they choose a casino. You never know when that lucky streak is going come. What players can do is to avoid roguish casinos. I do not recommend any of the Playtech casinos to anyone who wants their payments in a quick and a convinient manner. Even the bigger and reputable Playtechs have gone in their way to insult their players with these bank drafts. I am disappointed in Playtechs.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Don't play at Playtechs unless you want your winnings sent to you in bank drafts! This warning is now valid for even the bigger and more reputable Playtech casinos.

First I thought this bank draft non-sense was only relevant with the semi-Roguish Playtechs that constantly keep bombing my mailbox with constant reload offers. This group's name's first letter starts with the letter E They spam a lot. I was recently proven that this bank draft non-sense is also valid with the large and reputable sites.

What I mean by this is that the casinos hate winners - they will do whatever it takes to make the payment slower and more annoying so that the player next time decides to gamble it all away or reverse withdrawal.

Recently I played at a big and a very reputable Playtech casino and got the bank draft treatment. The reason I chose them in the first place was because they were reputable and not going to do any tricks. After my withdrawal request I sent them the required documents. Following the confirmed verification they delayed the payments of my winnings by over a week. After the verification I e-mailed them asking why they were delaying my payment. Then finally I got an e-mail from them that the withdrawal was processed by bank draft! I specifically deposited with an e-wallet, and requested the withdrawal back to the same e-wallet.

If I had wanted bank drafts I would have requested them myself. Bank drafts takes ages to arrive (this could be because casinos intentionally delay payments) Banks really hate bank drafts and charge ridicilous amounts to cash them in. Some banks dont even accept them. They ask why payment wasn't done by wire. Bank drafts are also only valid for a short period time so forget about a longer holiday - you have to cash them before they expire.

There's not much a player can do after they choose a casino. You never know when that lucky streak is going come. What players can do is to avoid roguish casinos. I do not recommend any of the Playtech casinos to anyone who wants their payments in a quick and a convinient manner. Even the bigger and reputable Playtechs have gone in their way to insult their players with these bank drafts. I am disappointed in Playtechs.

Well, perhaps this "reputable" Playtech is no longer so, so it will remain true that only "semi-roguish" Playtech casinos do this.

It is clearly a stunt designed to punish players, there is no reason they cannot pay back to an ewallet that has been used for the deposit. Further, there is no reason why they cannot at least offer a wire or CHAPS/BACS electronic payment if their cashflow is causing problems with ewallets.

It is known that Playtech had some kind of dispute with Neteller some while back which caused almost the entire Playtech estate to resort to cheques, bank drafts, or offers of other alternatives.

Please name this casino NOW so that others can learn NOT to play here if their own bank cannot accept a bank draft (unless you are PABing). This practice needs to be addressed and preferrably stamped out, and naming & shaming offenders who CANNOT be sifted out simply by reading the rogue pit and not recommended casinos. The alternative is to AVOID ALL PLAYTECH CASINOS until we have some action on this.

Casinos seem to think this kind of stunt is OK, but how would THEY (managment) feel if they bought something in, say, London - but after paying were told they had to collect the goods from GLASGOW, and NO, they can't simply have their money back because it is "already in the system".
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
Just to give the counter point.

Some people like to receive their payments by Bank Draft.

Also, if your first payment only took a week with documents being sent in, your doing better than most.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Just to give the counter point.

Some people like to receive their payments by Bank Draft.

Also, if your first payment only took a week with documents being sent in, your doing better than most.

Quite, but others not only do not like this, they CANNOT because of peculiarities with their own countries' banking systems.

Here in the UK, I don't think it would be a big problem PROVIDED the draft was in UK Pounds. If it was in another currency, then it would be a BIG PROBLEM because of all the various fees and "red tape". Cheques in UK Pounds are fine, costs nothing to pay into personal bank accounts, and the handful of casinos that pulled the same stunt with me did not cause me to pay fees, and only created a delay while the cheque arrived, and then cleared.

The BIG problem is that this stunt is pulled after the fact, and the expectation is that ewallets are the best means to deposit and withdraw - these are not my words, but the words of the INDUSTRY!!

ANYONE from the UK who suffers such a stunt with an ewallet deposit should complain to the Advertising Standards Authority if the casino responsible lies within the EU. The basis of this complaint would be false advertising of the benefits of using an ewallet as stated on the websites of the respective companies. IF casinos are going to pull stunts like this, then players need not go to the bother of using ewallets that lack the various consumer protection measures afforded to Credit cards and VISA branded debit cards. Often, eWallet funds are NOT PROTECTED by the various compensation schemes that protect deposits in banks and other financial institutions. In the current climate, banks going bust are a REALITY, and this scheme has been used on more than one occasion, sometimes just by subsidising a move of savers' funds to a more sound bank. There has to be a questionmark over the security of funds in ewallets, as if the ewallet company went under, all virtual money lodged with them may simply vanish. The fact that this "can't pay back to ewallet" stunt is becoming much more common makes me wonder if there is some underlying problem that us mere players are unaware of at present, and this stunt is the only symptom we are able to see of it at present.

US players know what I am talking about, those that had money in Neteller that simply "vanished" for a year while Neteller pretended they were still processing withdrawal requests "as normal", and the delay was merely down to volume. Complete lie as it turned out, so why should we believe a future problem will be dealt with in any other way.
 

cyprean

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PABnononaccred
Joined
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Location
Sun/Moon
Well, perhaps this "reputable" Playtech is no longer so, so it will remain true that only "semi-roguish" Playtech casinos do this.

It is clearly a stunt designed to punish players, there is no reason they cannot pay back to an ewallet that has been used for the deposit. Further, there is no reason why they cannot at least offer a wire or CHAPS/BACS electronic payment if their cashflow is causing problems with ewallets.

Please name this casino NOW so that others can learn NOT to play here if their own bank cannot accept a bank draft (unless you are PABing). This practice needs to be addressed and preferrably stamped out, and naming & shaming offenders who CANNOT be sifted out simply by reading the rogue pit and not recommended casinos. The alternative is to AVOID ALL PLAYTECH CASINOS until we have some action on this.

Thanks for the replies.

The site in question is William Hill Casino. Their new casino has playtech software.

I usually avoid playtechs, but I decided to try because I thought William Hill stood out as reputable. I was wrong.

I am not 100% sure, but after googling around I think they have something do with Joyland and other rogue casinos. Their T&Cs are very similar. Their support is equally bad, and when I tried to call them, each of my 3 phone calls were hang up the same time so they are ignoring calls. They told me by mail that they have something wrong with their phones.

I also made 3 separate e-wallet withdrawal requests and now they are going to send me 3 separate bank drafts. When I ask them to combine the bank drafts, they wont do this. Stay away!
 

kavaman

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The New Williamhill also did the same BS with me. I don't get it. I think this is against the money laundering regulations aswell or is it? Joyland, 32vegas etc, are owned by williamhill nowadays if i remember correctly.

kava
 

shadow123

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midlands
Anyone had problems like this with bet365?
Have only made a couple of small deposits to try out the Gladiators slot
and not been in a position to try a withdrawal (which would have been to debit card). I did have bad experiences years ago with Playtech.
 

kavaman

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I think the bet365 group is one of the more reliable places on playtech. They also do their own withdrawals (atleast used to).
 

cyprean

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The New Williamhill also did the same BS with me. I don't get it. I think this is against the money laundering regulations aswell or is it? Joyland, 32vegas etc, are owned by williamhill nowadays if i remember correctly.

kava


Shame that a big name, William Hill will go this low and condone this kind of rogue business.

Many gambling operators seem to aquire these rogue businesses. It's just a shame that these big names endorse rogue tactics. PartyGaming is another company, they bought Casino Las Vegas, Magic Box and Casino King. All roguish casinos and customers of these casinos have reported many issues also on these boards.


Anyone had problems like this with bet365?
Have only made a couple of small deposits to try out the Gladiators slot
and not been in a position to try a withdrawal (which would have been to debit card). I did have bad experiences years ago with Playtech.

You should be safe with bet365. They do their own deposits/withdrawals and to my knowledge don't screw their customers but give their customers respect and fast withdrawals to the same payment method. The only other Playtech I could trust my money with is Betfred.

They actually insist on paying to the same payment method the money came from because of antimoneylaundering, or that's what they say. So how come the rogue Playtechs can use any payment method they choose?

Steer clear out of William Hill Casino and their rogue sister sites.
 

wangpoker

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Lucky that this william hill playtech casino doesn't even allow Chinese to open an account.

The only other Playtech I could trust my money with is Betfred.
Wofacai casino is accredited here by CM. This is one of the best Playtech casinos.

[Max says: at this date 20090302 this is not true, no such casino appears on the Accredited lists.]
 
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yameater

Meister Member
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Location
USA, N.C.
I think the bet365 group is one of the more reliable places on playtech. They also do their own withdrawals (atleast used to).



When U.S. players could play there, I played at Bet365. I loved them. They were fantastic. I would love to play there again some day. No worries with them.;)
 

KasinoKing

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You should be safe with bet365. They do their own deposits/withdrawals and to my knowledge don't screw their customers but give their customers respect and fast withdrawals to the same payment method. The only other Playtech I could trust my money with is Betfred.
So does that mean you will soon be removing the Playtechs who appear in your "list of reputable online casinos" page which is linked in your signature? :p

Wofacai casino is accredited here by CM. This is one of the best Playtech casinos.
That's twice you've posted that.
Can you point it out to me please, only I'm having trouble spotting it:-
 

vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks for the replies.

The site in question is William Hill Casino. Their new casino has playtech software.

I usually avoid playtechs, but I decided to try because I thought William Hill stood out as reputable. I was wrong.

I am not 100% sure, but after googling around I think they have something do with Joyland and other rogue casinos. Their T&Cs are very similar. Their support is equally bad, and when I tried to call them, each of my 3 phone calls were hang up the same time so they are ignoring calls. They told me by mail that they have something wrong with their phones.

I also made 3 separate e-wallet withdrawal requests and now they are going to send me 3 separate bank drafts. When I ask them to combine the bank drafts, they wont do this. Stay away!

Yet ANOTHER problem with William Hill. The promise was that although they bought out the notorious Cpays casinos, things would change for the better. Right from the start, it was "rogue business as usual" from the Cpays casinos, as though nothing had happened. Even worse, William Hill casino was added to their spam portfolio.

Yesterday, I saw a thread from a player who had spent 24 on the phone, but had YET TO GET THROUGH!!!!
THis would simply never happen at a good casino. For a start, even if they DID have "issues" with phones or CS, it would be on a TOLL FREE LINE, and it would only cost the player time.

Before this, there was the "William Hill's outsourced casino is a joke" thread. A story of how their normally mediocre customer service had taken a serious turn for the worse.

Forget about the William Hill name. This isn't the William Hill we Brits see on the high street, it is a joint venture company set up to run online casinos. William Hill and Playtech have got together, and the company has bought out Cpays casinos, and merged in the William Hill online casino, to produce what they feel is a viable competitor with a ready made portfolio of casinos.

Unfortunately, this is looking like yet another "dream team" that has dropped the ball even before the kick off. Cpays had a terrible reputation, and surely the first priority should have been to make the change for the better obvious to players right from the start. Now, the William Hill Online brand is being steadily eroded by these continuing problems, problems that are only really to be expected with rogue operators.

The longer this fiasco goes on, the harder it will become for William Hill Online to establish themselves as a reputable brand.

They may well be attracting many new players, but they are not going to stick around for long if they quickly encounter these kinds of problems with what is supposed to be a solid and reputable brand name.
 

cyprean

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Yet ANOTHER problem with William Hill. The promise was that although they bought out the notorious Cpays casinos, things would change for the better. Right from the start, it was "rogue business as usual" from the Cpays casinos, as though nothing had happened. Even worse, William Hill casino was added to their spam portfolio.

--

The longer this fiasco goes on, the harder it will become for William Hill Online to establish themselves as a reputable brand.

They may well be attracting many new players, but they are not going to stick around for long if they quickly encounter these kinds of problems with what is supposed to be a solid and reputable brand name.

I agree with all these points 100 %.

Prior this the name William Hill meant a solid a business to me, now they are in the rogue category.
 

maxd

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UKDafoe

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Indeed it seems obvious the only thing that changed when William Hill purchased cpays was the name of the owner. The existing rogue management and poor support teams are still in place.

The practise of sending unrequested checks seems like such obviously roguish behavior that one would think it would only take contacting a higher-up at WH to get them to stop this. You can expect it from the old Cpays and the other roguish Playtechs like Europa, Royal Dice etc but WH must have intelligent customer oriented employees who can see the light!

Very dissapointing.
 

UKDafoe

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Jan 5, 2005
Location
US/UK
More reason against having to receive an unrequested bank check:

DUBLIN, Ireland -- As reported by The Irish Times: "Online gamblers who apply for mortgages may have more at stake than their occasional flutters banks are now using their hobby to reject loan applications.

"Michael Dowling, spokesman for the Independent Mortgages Advisers Federation (IMAF), told The Irish Times that banks now regarded online betting very negatively.

"He said that while any such activity appearing on a current account submitted to a bank as part of a mortgage application would not automatically disqualify someone from being granted a loan, it was one of the criteria being applied 'in a market where they are looking for any excuses' to reject applications.
 

GrandMaster

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UK
More reason against having to receive an unrequested bank check:

How would a bank know where the draft came from and what it was for? If you are concerned, you can always pay the draft into another account, e.g., a savings account. Credit/debit card transactions are harder to hide, as they carry transaction codes.

I still have not understood the casino's motivation for playing by bank draft, it must be quite expensive.
 

UKDafoe

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Jan 5, 2005
Location
US/UK
Hmm, I suppose now it would probably show up as the payment processors name anyway rather than the casino. Personally I always liked to keep my gambling transactions in Neteller to keep it more private. Alas that option is no longer available to me. Don't Vegas Affiliates casinos do this as well? Maybe they could explain the rationale?
 

vinylweatherman

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Hmm, I suppose now it would probably show up as the payment processors name anyway rather than the casino. Personally I always liked to keep my gambling transactions in Neteller to keep it more private. Alas that option is no longer available to me. Don't Vegas Affiliates casinos do this as well? Maybe they could explain the rationale?


This is the point. This complaint is about a player who deposits by Neteller, but then has his withdrawal paid by bank draft. It may not be obvious to US that a particular item on a statement is "gambling related", but you can bet the risk manager knows full well how to spot the "whiff" of an online gambling transaction.

I can attest to this as FACT. My card company, even at mere CS level, was instantly able to tell me they KNEW particular transactions were gambling, rather than another kind of online purchase. THEY can see behind what we see on the statements. I have noticed also that my Barclaycard, used EXCLUSIVELY for online gambling, have INCREASED my interest rates (should it not be paid off) to 30%, yet the bank rate is 1%. Even a card I stopped using long ago for online gambling, and has since changed to a new provider, did the same (so they know).

Players being able to keep their gambling wad completely out of sight of the banking system, such as in Neteller, are what the online business NEEDS. Many cards have now banned altogether online gambling transactions EXCEPT for what they see as "UK brands", and those that still alow them have now changed to considering them "cash advances", and limiting them to ever decreasing proportions of the total limit, as well as charging high interest rates right from day 1, without the usual interest free period.

The banks will probably tighten the screw even further, I have now seen DEBIT cards block online gambling, and this is not "borrowed" money, it is straight out of the bank.

If it became a widespread problem, with it becoming common knowledge that online gaming will prejudice your entire financial future, such as loan and mortage applications, the base of players willing to "have a flutter" will vanish quickly, and the casinos will be left with the "hardcore", probably those who have become of "mature years", those with plenty of money, and of course, "professional gamblers", or "bonus hunters" to use the casino's terminology.

This is the first I have heard about a gambling transaction in it's own right being a negative credit scoring factor, so many probably are not aware of this, and I have not seen this mentioned on the many sites offering off the peg financial advice, such as how to improve, or protect, one's credit rating. They should now add "don't use your main bank account to make gambling transactions".

I have to now, because Neteller can no longer make payments to my other one, which is Cahoot, because the international look-up database does not correctly identify it. I already have a mortgage though, and all this stops me doing is borrowing more money, and largely this is down to the general "credit crunch", and spending on luxuries will be the first hit, and I am surprised that we have not seen MORE carnage among online casinos that we have so far. The launch of so many NEW ones is also baffling me somewhat, as often when a load of new businesses open up, thinking they can beat both the established ones, and a contracting pool of customers, a good many fail pretty quickly, and quite a few others lose the long term struggle as the established crowd take action to protect their share.
 
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