Doleplex specializes in Double Jeopardy

[wheresmymoney]

Heres how it works. Go to any Doleplex casino, lets say Lucky Coin, deposit your money and gamble. Shortly after youll start receiving emails from other Doleplex casinos, which unless youre in the know you wont know that theyre affiliated with Doleplex. These unsolicited emails will have terrific offers. Deposit and lose all you want at the new casino, lets say Vegas Frontier. One hundred, two hundred, two thousand etc.. As long as you are losing youre fine. No problems depositing, no problems logging in to your account. If you should by chance get a small win thats fine also. AS LONG AS YOU DONT WIN MORE THAN YOUVE DEPOSITED.
(Heres where the Double Jeopardy Kicks in) Now lets say you get a decent size win. You get verbal and email confirmation stating youve met the wagering requirement for withdrawal. When you call back in 3 weeks to inquire about your withdrawal you find out that youre account is locked. When you email Oliver Curran he doesnt respond. Although youre apprehensions at this point youre not too worried because you know you can always go to MontanaOversees. 1 month later you get a response from Montana stating that the ruling is in favor of the operator because (unbeknownst to you) you were banned from the first Doleplex casino lucky Coin, 3 months prior to youre win at Vegas Frontier.

This is my story.

After making a total of 15 deposits between 6/26/05 & 9/11/05 @ $200 a shot, I secured a $5000 win @ Vegas Frontier on 9/11/05 only to be shafted and robbed. I was notified by Montana later on that my account was locked at Lucky Coin on 6/26/05. Mind you Id been receiving and utilizing offers from Royal Circus, Vegas Frontier and Golden Nile. (And these offers/emails werent coming from 3rd parties. They were coming directly from the casinos with Oliver Currans name, title and phone number at the bottom). They had no problem taking my money as long as I lost. For 3 months they bombarded me with these offers, entertained me on the phone on numerous calls and allowed me to deposit my hard earned money. But as soon as I got a decent size win they backdoor me.

In retrospect it wasnt Double Jeopardy it was Certain Death. The word Jeopardy implies risk, and there was no risk involved. They certainly werent risking anything because if I lost, then hey no problem. If I won they had no intention of paying me, so hey no problem. No risk. And on my end I had no way of actually receiving any winnings so I wasnt actually gambling; I was enjoying the nice software @ $200 a session.

And here it is I gripe about $50 for my sons' video games.

 

[GemG7]

Oliver Curran is a effin scumbag. Sorry this happened to you.

 

[The Dude]

Oliver Curran is a effin scumbag. Sorry this happened to you.

Please mind the forum rules:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

In the meantime, I'll contact the operators to see what's up.

 

[caruso]

"What's up"? Bryan, you know well what's up. I wrote about it in the "deposit trick" thread, the one that got deleted over a year ago. This is identical, and proof positive that this is still going on and that I called it with absolute nuclear precision back then.

Hell, if that thread had stood, maybe this player wouldn't have got snagged. What a damn shame.

BTW, his name isn't "Oliver Curran", it's "Warren Cloud".

Wheresmymoney, very sorry to hear about this. However, you should know that this character has his eye on the UK stock market, and it's cases like yours that may just keep him off it. Take some small consolation from that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Evidence

Wheresmymoney. You should retain ALL correspondence you have on this matter to show that these offers came directly from the casinos and not a third party spammer. This could not only show you are right, but show that Montanna disputes are not unbiased when they seem to keep on agreeing with the casino. Allegations are one thing, and it is the player's word against the industry; Proof of misleading the player is another. This would actually come under UK CRIMINAL law (if they do list here) if the evidence were to show a deliberate intent to entice the player to deposit at another casino through deliberately deceptive marketing (it's known as fraud).
Presenting your evidence to the UK gambling commission may help, although will probably not result in your money back as they did not list as planned.

 

[The Dude]

"What's up"? Bryan, you know well what's up. I wrote about it in the "deposit trick" thread, the one that got deleted over a year ago...

This was only a few months ago, and you failed to mention that the thread was removed from public view because you could not control your rants and it caused you to have your account suspended from this site. If you are in the mood to begin another careless rampage - I suggest you take it to your own website. Another incident like before will not be tolerated. That is the final word on that.

wheresmymoney - I dug up your PAB and am forwarding it to the operator. I'll let you know of the outcome.

 

[The Dude]

...
wheresmymoney - I dug up your PAB and am forwarding it to the operator. I'll let you know of the outcome.

I don't have a PAB for Lucky Coin from you. Please fill this out, so I can have someone look into this. Thank you.

 

[caruso]

Bryan, fair comment that that thread contained comments - not just MINE but from many, many people - that would probably have been meat & drink for anyone looking to cause Casinomeister grief. That much I concede.

I would, however, make several followup comments:

If I commit an "unjust act" against you and you report the fact, it will generate bad feeling; if I commit several "unjust acts" against several people, this will go far beyond bad feeling and people's tempers will fray. This cannot be avoided. It follows then that the best way to successfully engeneer an untouchable, unprosecutable, un-illegal "unjust act" is to perpetrate it on multiple people over a long period. Then, when the facts get reported, people express themselves forcefully and the facts end up having to be removed!

HOW do you get around this?? How?

It is a FACT that this "unjust act" is ongoing, and has been for a long, long time.

How do we warn people? How do we spell out to them that the Cloud / Curran casino group have engineered this "unjust act" to elicit deposits that cannot generate winnings, the architypal online casino "lose / lose" situation, and for many years now?

Explain to me HOW to do this, on Casinomeister, and I absolutely PROMISE you I will adhere to it to the letter and beyond, and then some more. A simple, factual account of what can happen if you accept promos from the Crystal Palace group. No heat, no libelous language, just the simple facts, as proved by many players.

A "casino caution", locked so noone can comment?

There HAS to be something, some way to get this message out.

Bryan, you cannot be libelled for speaking the truth, backed up by clear evidence. You want evidence, beyond the endless line of posts confirming what is going on? I have two screenshots which prove:

1) My account at Crystal Palace is locked

2) I received (and still receive weekly) promo enticements to make non-winnable deposits into American Grand / Vegas frontier.

THIS IS PROOF. You cannot libel the truth.

Bryan, if you find this post unacceptable for whatever reason, sorry, I can't do anything about that. This behaviour needs exposing, and the facts of the deposit trick are undisputable. I have my own screenshot evidence to back it up, as I stated above.

I say again though that there were indeed comments made in my "Warren Cloud deposit trick" thread, beyond the pure facts of the trick that were absoluely factual in themselves, that could have caused you problems and might have been best unsaid, causing you to delete that thread.

It should be understood that this was done not for the purposes of covering up the facts, but for the dangers presented by unchecked language directed at a litigious casino operator.

 

[caruso]

Wheresmymoney. You should retain ALL correspondence you have on this matter to show that these offers came directly from the casinos and not a third party spammer. This could not only show you are right, but show that Montanna disputes are not unbiased when they seem to keep on agreeing with the casino. Allegations are one thing, and it is the player's word against the industry; Proof of misleading the player is another. This would actually come under UK CRIMINAL law (if they do list here) if the evidence were to show a deliberate intent to entice the player to deposit at another casino through deliberately deceptive marketing (it's known as fraud).
Presenting your evidence to the UK gambling commission may help, although will probably not result in your money back as they did not list as planned.

But how? He is COVERED BY THE TERMS - THIS is the point!

The terms state that you cannot play the offers if you're barred at a sister casino. The player BREAKS the terms - obviously he is encouraged to break them, quite deliberately so by the casino - so how can the casino be charged in a court of law? You can be absolutely sure that Cloud / Curran has consulted hard with his lawyers on this.

THIS is the problem. I don't think you're up to speed with the mechanics of this, Vinyl. How can he be charged in a court of law? Spell it out please, if you can.

Maybe you know something I don't, but this in an issue I've thought about long and hard.

 

[jetset]

You've answered your own question in the body of your post, Caruso.

Rather than ranting, antagonising and generally rampaging about (cool choice of word Bryan!), and trying to inflict damage rather than warn players and help sort out their individual problems perhaps you should occasionally try the following:

QUOTE: A simple, factual account.....No heat, no libelous language, just the simple facts, as proved by many players. UNQUOTE

You may one day be faced with this sort of need for discipline when you have your own website and attract a member/s who put you at risk through acts for which you, rather than they are in the first instance accountable.

 

[The Dude]

Bryan, fair comment that that thread contained comments - not just MINE but from many, many people - that would probably have been meat & drink for anyone looking to cause Casinomeister grief. That much I concede.

You see, this is the problem. You seem to get whacked out by a few comments and blow it all out of proportion. That thread was never deleted. I moved it to a non-public area because of the defamatory language you used. Many many people you say? There were 13 posts - four of them were yours - one was mine. That leaves eight posts from others (seven participants in the thread). By the way, not one of them stated that they experienced the "trick".

1) My account at Crystal Palace is locked

2) I received (and still receive weekly) promo enticements to make non-winnable deposits into American Grand / Vegas frontier.

THIS IS PROOF. You cannot libel the truth.

Have you contacted the operator about this? Have you contacted anyone at RTG or Montana overseas about this? Or do you chose to make abrasive public comments about this situation, conjuring up motives and making allegations at my and Casinomeister's expense?

My experience with this email situation (your trick), is that when a player receives one of these emails, it's usually because they signed up at one of these casinos with different email addresses or a different username. If the player was banned from one of these casinos, sometimes they try to sign up with another username and use the coupon. They aren't caught until someone audits this by hand (usually during the cashin). Deposits are returned but winnings are not honored. If the guy lost his money - would he go back to the casino and say - "Gee, I think I was banned from you guys. I want my money back." What the hell? Where is the logic behind that?

It is a FACT that this "unjust act" is ongoing, and has been for a long, long time.

In my opinion, an unjust act is to jump to conclusions and make allegations without speaking with the operators or software providers, and try to come up with solutions for some of these problems.

 

[The Dude]

Oh, and just a side note. When you initiated that "trick" thread, that was in response to funkbomber's frustrating situation which was finally resolved in his favor.

 

[caruso]

Actually, I've indirectly invited Cloud / Curran to comment on the matter, and also PMed him. But what the hell, I try again - PM with an email follow up to Crystal Palace.

Rather than ranting, antagonising and generally rampaging about (cool choice of word Bryan!), and trying to inflict damage rather than warn players and help sort out their individual problems

Nice spin, Jet. Enough people know me well enough to know that this allegation that I'm "trying to inflict damage rather than warn players" is totally false, and a brazen, untrue accusation. Noone tries to warn players more than I do, and if you think I want to "damage" Bryan then your hat is on too tight. You have gall, I grant you that.

As to the "A simple, factual account.....No heat, no libelous language, just the simple facts, as proved by many players" bit you quoted: THAT is EXACTLY what I was asking to do: post a simple, factual caution about what CAN (note, not what "will") happen if you accept promo offers from Cloud / Curran casinos. If you accept said promos, you run the risk of losing any winnings generated because of an apparently locked account at another Cloud casino.

That's all. I'm not proposing armageddon.

Bryan, FTR all my Cloud / Curran casinos have the same username and email (has to be for Neteller).

 

[Macgyver]

How do we warn people? How do we spell out to them that the Cloud / Curran casino group have engineered this "unjust act" to elicit deposits that cannot generate winnings, the architypal online casino "lose / lose" situation, and for many years now?

Caruso, I thought you did this in a thread once upon a time. I remember seeing something where it listed all the Doleplex casinos with a warning that if you were locked at one, you couldn't claim a bonus at another. From my recollection, it was very factual, simple and to the point.

I can't find it myself, may be worth rewriting.

 

[jetset]

QUOTE: Nice spin, Jet. Enough people know me well enough to know that this allegation that I'm "trying to inflict damage rather than warn players" is totally false, and a brazen, untrue accusation. Noone tries to warn players more than I do, and if you think I want to "damage" Bryan then your hat is on too tight. You have gall, I grant you that. UNQUOTE

No spin - your posts speak volumes and your ego remains rampant. But rather than sidetracking the central point of my post, try behaving in a controlled and even handed manner. It really will get you further.

 

[caruso]

Caruso, I thought you did this in a thread once upon a time. I remember seeing something where it listed all the Doleplex casinos with a warning that if you were locked at one, you couldn't claim a bonus at another. From my recollection, it was very factual, simple and to the point.

I can't find it myself, may be worth rewriting.

Macgyver, this is the thread we've been talking about. Bryan shifted it to a non-public (mods?) forum because of language it contained that was considered inappropriate / excessive. Since I can't view it I'm not in a position to comment on that - it was at least two years ago. If it did contain such language, from me or the other posters who commented, fair enough to kill it.

However, I do think that as long as there is NO such language included, such a thread / post does need making.

I could post the facts in maybe just three sentences. Along with listing all the Cloud / Curran casinos, that would really do the job just right. No excess, no "libel" or "slander" or whatever - and it would serve as a handy reference for those who read the boards and might deposit at a Cloud / Curran casino.

 

[The Dude]

Caruso, I thought you did this in a thread once upon a time. I remember seeing something where it listed all the Doleplex casinos with a warning that if you were locked at one, you couldn't claim a bonus at another. From my recollection, it was very factual, simple and to the point.

I can't find it myself, may be worth rewriting.

Hi Macgyver,

Here is the list from that thread:

Crystal Palace
High Rollers Lounge
Vegas Riches
Americas Online
American Grand Casino
Clubpharma.com
Golden Nile Casino
Lucky Coin Casino
Lucky Pyramid Casino
Royal Circus Casino
Vegas Frontier Casino

The next sentence Caruso calls the operators villians and it spirals downward from there. So much for being subtle and having tact.

Caruso - I'll invite you to continue this at your own website. 'nough said.

 

[Macgyver]

Thanks, Bryan, my faulty memory must have forgotten about the rest.

I'd only add the following caveat to the list and agree that it should be posted somewhere for Forum readers as a "caution" possibly?

"These casinos have the following term listed:

'Promotional offers are not available to any players who have been locked out of any of our sister casinos including (but not restricted to): High Rollers Lounge, Cleopatras-Casino, American Grand, Golden Nile, Lucky Coin, Lucky Pyramid, Royal Circus and Vegas Frontier.'

Players should check to ensure that they have not been locked out of existing accounts at these casinos before signing up and receiving a promotional offer from other casinos in the list. If players are locked out, they may forfeit any winnings made from the current promotional offer they are trying to redeem."

I think that's pretty neutral enough.

 

[bpb]

My experience with this email situation (your trick), is that when a player receives one of these emails, it's usually because they signed up at one of these casinos with different email addresses or a different username. If the player was banned from one of these casinos, sometimes they try to sign up with another username and use the coupon.

I signed up at two Crystal Palace joints a couple years back. I used the same email address and username at both. I lost at one, won at the other. I used a bonus coupon on both. At the casino where I won, I received only my deposit back. None of my emails about the situation were ever answered.

Since that time, I've received approximately 200 emails from other Crystal Palace casinos, offering me bonuses. To the same email address I used to sign up at the casino where I was barred. They could easily remove me from the promotions mailing list. They haven't. I've even requested that I be removed from the promotions mailing list. I haven't.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No amateur

But how? He is COVERED BY THE TERMS - THIS is the point!

The terms state that you cannot play the offers if you're barred at a sister casino. The player BREAKS the terms - obviously he is encouraged to break them, quite deliberately so by the casino - so how can the casino be charged in a court of law? You can be absolutely sure that Cloud / Curran has consulted hard with his lawyers on this.

THIS is the problem. I don't think you're up to speed with the mechanics of this, Vinyl. How can he be charged in a court of law? Spell it out please, if you can.

Maybe you know something I don't, but this in an issue I've thought about long and hard.

Yes, Mr Cloud has the player for breaching the terms. BUT the sending of promotional offers DIRECTLY to the player can be argued as "obtaining pecuniary advantage through deception". The terms can be challenged under the unfair contracts legislation and the courts will probably rule that the account was locked in order to bait a trap rather than due to security concerns. It can be argued that an operator would not invite a player to participate in another offer if they were deemed a risk. The fact that the player was not informed, and the locking was done in secret will not go in Mr Cloud's favour. This would be dealt with in a small claims court or civil proceedings, where it is the balance of probabilities rather than irrefutable proof that will win the day.
If the locking clause can be struck out under the unfair contracts act, then the casino will have to find another reason to not pay under the remaining terms. There are many companies that use such tactics, but consumers often win in the small claims court, and enough complaints going in the favour of the consumer will result in the authorities launching an investigation.
If the group were to list, then they will have to provide accounts for at least one year of operation. Close scrutiny of such figures should reveal any wide scale wrong doing, however this may go undiscovered as this is a relatively new industry in terms of stock market listings. If they list, they will have to behave as they will have to justify such instances. There is no indication that the pulled listing was due to such issues, it could have simply been down to the state of the market sector at the time.
I am sure that eventually this group will make a mistake that can be tested either in court or by a regulator, provided they do not alienate so many players that all confidence in them is lost, and RTG should realise that the fallout will taint all their licencees (which already seems to be happening).
Incidentally, I had a withdrawal here declined on the same grounds, it was small and obtained from a free chip. I E-mailed them making it clear I knew EXACTLY what Mr Curran was up to (I even addressed him as Cloud in the E-mail, and ordered him to lock my account to ensure I would not ever be eligible for offers at any of his casinos). I got no reply, however all the mailers stopped and have never restarted, so clearly the E-mail was read, but was ignored deliberately in terms of replying.
The only way to catch him out would be to open only ONE account at ONE casino, and it would be impossible to not notice if it got locked secretly. This whole thing works on the principle that players will try to get a generous promotion on more than one related casino, and often do so sequentially and would not notice an earlier account had been locked.

 

[Macgyver]

The only way to catch him out would be to open only ONE account at ONE casino, and it would be impossible to not notice if it got locked secretly. This whole thing works on the principle that players will try to get a generous promotion on more than one related casino, and often do so sequentially and would not notice an earlier account had been locked.

This actually happened to me, but I had kept abreast of the previous thread discussed. I opened one account at Golden Palace (one of the Doleplex, I don't have time right now to check the Excel spreadsheet) and redeemed a bonus coupon. I was lucky to win a little bit and initiated a withdrawal, which was handled fairly quickly.

A few days later, I went to log into the account (thinking about another deposit) and I was locked out. When I tried to contact them, I got brushed off repeatedly until I was finally able to get the question about sister casinos out. I was very brusquely told that I couldn't play at the sister casino I mentioned and was disconnected.

Hence why I think a neutral disclaimer/warning about these places isn't a bad idea. As long as it is neutral and not name-calling ...

 

[The Dude]

This actually happened to me, but I had kept abreast of the previous thread discussed. I opened one account at Golden Palace...

That's Playtech

 

[Macgyver]

That's Playtech

I knew I was close on the name but not quite, thanks.

Now that I've had a chance to look at my spreadsheet, it was Crystal Palace back in November of 2005. They did pay within two days of my withdrawal, but never sent me any emails about the account being locked.

If I had uninstalled the casino after payment (which I've done before), I'd never have known and would have been SOL if I had opened an account at another one of Doleplex's casinos. The rest of the information I put above is legit and correct ... I only had the name wrong.

So many "Palaces," so little bonuses ...

 

[wheresmymoney]

Bryan

Im new to this so please bear w/ me.

By PAB do you mean Pitch a Bitch?

Do u need me to fill one out for Lucky Coin even though my winnings from Vegas Frontier were voided?

 

[The Dude]

Im new to this so please bear w/ me.

By PAB do you mean Pitch a Bitch?

Do u need me to fill one out for Lucky Coin even though my winnings from Vegas Frontier were voided?

Yes, https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

Just give me the information I need so I can present this to Vegas Frontier/Lucky Coin - it's the same group, same management.