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Does the average person wager 40x deposit?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by realwtfsup, Jan 21, 2005.

    Jan 21, 2005
  1. realwtfsup

    realwtfsup Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Laborer
    Location:
    Tacoma
    I have seen this claim on many casinos T&C pages. Some even claim the average person wagers 40x in a single session.

    Is this true or a myth?

    edit: This is one a single deposit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2005
  2. Jan 21, 2005
  3. virtualted

    virtualted No longer working for Virtual

    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Can only tell you stats from here. Yes the average player who is looking to play and just play does average upwords of 60x play through before losing balance. Players who are cashing out who have made 40x play through very small less than 10% of cash outs. You need to remember that on some slots and most of the video poker that are paying out 95-99% if you have just a few minor wins and you are not looking to cash out you can strech your play to 70-80 play through. RTG had the bonus set so player could see when they reached play through and it was a large % who did make the play through but from say a 100.00 deposit they might have 30.00 in account after playthrough. So most players would continue to play until they could cash out over there deposit amount or when they have a zero balance. So if you are just churning the money, than there is a great chance of making 40x play through. I am not sure if this helps or not, because it is not a black and white question.
    Ted
     
  4. Jan 21, 2005
  5. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Not a black & white answer either! In fact, I reckon it's a load of old tosh!
    How you can say many people can do 40x WR on slots! Maybe the payout is 95-99%, but these figures are averaged to take into account all the big and Jackpot wins - if you don't 'get lucky' your return is going to be much less than this.

    As the original question is obviously related to WR for a bonus, your statement that many people would have only $30 left from $100 after 40x WR is tantamount to admitting people have no chance of profiting from your bonuses!
    As you deem players real money is used before bonus money, and the bonus is sticky anyway, they haven't got a hope!
    There are a few very clever people who post here, who make profit from sticky bonuses - but I ain't one of them! It's because these bonuses are 'no-hopers' for most of us, that many people, including me, never (or rarely) play at RTG casinos.
    KK

    realwtfsup,
    I often do 15 - 20 x WR in a session, but 40x would take me about 5-6 hours!
    If it was slots only, it would be 5-6 days! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2005
  6. Jan 21, 2005
  7. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I've easily done that and more besides in hours, cashing out a nice profit.

    Equally, I've lost it all in minutes... :D
     
  8. Jan 21, 2005
  9. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    Maybe I'm wrong but I think what VirtualTed wanted to say was:


    Players who are cashing out who have made 40x play through are very small. It is less than 10% of all cash outs. You need to remember that on some slots and most of the video poker that are paying out 95-99% if you have just a few minor wins and you are not looking to cash out you CAN'T strech your play to 70-80 play through.

    Makes more sense to me this way....
     
  10. Jan 21, 2005
  11. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    KK

    You need to bet bigger!
    It would typically take me about an hour to play through a 40* WR.

    Your expected value remains the same, bet size notwithstanding, all that alters is the variance but don't forget this cuts both ways, you win more just as often as you lose more. What you definately gain is more time to spend on other things, such as hitting other casinos. ;)

    Oh by the way, I hope you have made that bet on Bolton, need your help badly on this one KK. :)

    Mitch
     
  12. Jan 21, 2005
  13. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I'm always curious what people's average bet size is compared to original bankroll.
    Sounds like you play with only about 10 units in your bankroll. Would that be close?
    Don't forget risk-of-ruin also changes with fewer units in bankroll so you don't really win just as often as you lose. About half the time you went bust, you would have recovered past that point had you had a larger bankroll.
    So, while ending down 20 units in 400 hands might happen say 20% of the time, your chances of busting before you get to 400 hands is about 40%.
    Each to his own of course but bigger isn't always better. :)
     
  14. Jan 21, 2005
  15. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I can't bet big - I'm too chicken!! (I hate losing!) ;)
    That's why I play almost all casino's in $US, not GBP!

    I wouldn't worry about Bolton. OK, so they won their last match, but that was only against poor old Arsenal. Oldham will thrash 'em! :D
     
  16. Jan 22, 2005
  17. realwtfsup

    realwtfsup Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Laborer
    Location:
    Tacoma
    IMy biggest playthourough was 16k on a deposit of $250. That took me awhile to do. Usually I do not last that long. I do have limits though that probablt keeps me from more playthrough. About half the time I will withdraw everything if I hit my win goal. Other times I have a win goal and will withdraw at leats half that.

    I have lost several times without getting to 2x playthrough.

    My usual play is either 1/50th or 1/100th of my bankroll on slots.

    Of course soemtimes I go nots and bet huge or sometimes I want to play a long time so will play very small.
     
  18. Jan 22, 2005
  19. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Hi Clayman

    My bankroll varies dependent on the size of the bonus and the WR.

    I don't deposit the minimum just to get the bonus.

    I like to play with at least a 60* unit bankroll for preference. Though because I use a progression system this complicates matters somewhat. ( Don't take my session I posted on the winners thread as usual for me I was genuinely drunk at the time! ) The exception is 'sticky bonuses' were my bet is my bankroll!

    My objective is to maximise my expected value. However, I take the long view
    and don't think it sensible for my financial health to try and maximise my return from each session.

    The question of whether is it better to bet smaller or larger is a moot one.

    I am sure the Wiz would say that on a negative expectation game it is better to bet big.

    Yes, you have more chance of RoR. But you could argue that in the long run this exposes less units to the house edge thereby improving your expectation.
    Though I accept your point about the chance of recovering the situation.

    I don't have the math to show one way or another but I am pretty sure the difference in overall expectation is minimal.

    What I am sure about is that betting bigger gives you more time and in a situation where time is limited, which it is for most players, if you use this time to hit more bonuses then your overall expectation increases. :)

    Interested to hear your further thoughts on this issue I am always open to ideas that will earn me more money. ;)

    Mitch

    "win don't gamble"
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2005
  20. Jan 22, 2005
  21. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Hi Mitch

    Sorry no big money-making tips - I know you're doing fine whatever you are doing. Just keep doing it.

    I also often deposit more than the minimum because a bigger bankroll is security to me. If I can, I try to think of the bonus itself as my bankroll which of course means I'm always betting minimum. Compared to mine, KK's are coconuts and yours are beachballs :D

    If they let me, I'd rather combine 2 deals and play one bigger deal than 2 smaller ones separately. Who wouldn't?

    It seems that, if I play at least a few hundred hands I am almost always down at least a few flat-bet units at some point during those hands. Rarely do I start at zero and never dip below. So, if I played with 1 or 2 units in my bankroll I would almost always go bust and hardly ever make money. Maybe the one time I would make money, it would be enough to offset all the losses, I don't know. Every trip I always see these kids who run up to the $10 BJ table and throw a couple $20's down, actually bet $20/hand and never seem to be able to believe their bad luck 10 minutes later. Now if they have $1000 more in their pocket, that's OK but I get the feeling they don't.

    Still, I guess they're having fun in their own way which is fine. But my advice to any new players would be to bet alot smaller than you think you have to, especially if you don't want to lose the deposit.

    The Wiz might say to bet big in a neg EV game if your goal is to maximize your winnings but not if your goal is preservation of bankroll.

    I only brought it up because you said you played 40X in about an hour which isn't possible with an average bet of 1/60th of bankroll so it made me think you had alot fewer units in your bankroll.

    It's always a balancing act, isn't it? How long you want to play, how much you care about going bust vs how much you want to win.

    And how much you're going to drink while doing it. :D
     
  22. Jan 22, 2005
  23. slotchik

    slotchik Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    USA
    I've deposited $100 and played through it 45,000 which is 4500x playthrough....it can happen! ( AND THIS IS ON SLOTS ONLY )
     
  24. Jan 22, 2005
  25. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    The average person goes bust before wagering 40xbankroll.
     
  26. Jan 22, 2005
  27. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    Not your usual immaculate logical self here Clayman. :notworthy

    All depends on the initial size of your bankroll and the size of bonus you are playing for. As an example played for a $50 bonus yesterday and completed the 40* WR playing approximately 170 hands in about 40 minutes. Ended up winning more than $100 due to mild progression and variance.

    I definately agree with your view that new players should take it easy until they get comfortable with gambling and the way probability can throw you a few curve balls. (If you are reading this KK, obviously this doesn't apply to you so start betting bigger you big pussy. ;) )

    Mitch
     
  28. Jan 22, 2005
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    :lolup: I want to but I can't!

    There's something in my tiny brain that always stops me! I think it's maybe because, even after all these years of playing & winning, I still think the software is rigged!
    It's strange though. For example, when I first played Intercasino, the BlackJack was $5 minimum per hand. And I would happily double my stake twice after winning hands. But now it's $2 minimum, I start at $2 and very rarely indeed go above $6 per hand. (Not that I play that much Blackjack, cos the evil casino owners have all got it rigged to make sure I rarely win! :( ) What a wus!
    But you're right though - I really must try it. Having a pretty good January at the moment, so might take up a stupid RTG 999% bonus or something, and see if I can force myself to play $25 a hand - just to see what it's like! :cool:
     
  30. Jan 23, 2005
  31. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Hey Mitch, I did it!
    Took up a crazy high %, sticky bonus at a 'very dodgy' RTG!
    (Don't want to say which one, but a clue is my deposit was only $30!!!)
    Had a go at Cleopatra's Gold (my first time ever) and hit two big features in the first 28 spins, winning over $200!
    But I STILL could not make myself lay the big one, or play 'rigged' RTG Blackjack!
    But I did play some PaiGow up to $50 per hand - my bigest bet EVER! (See narrow win below)
    I gained $80 playing this, before switching to 3-card @ $5-10 ante, where I made another $130!
    Another good Cleopatra feature took my bank to an amazing $862 at one point - don't forget, this is off a $30 deposit! :cool:
    I've lost some since, but now all I have to do is wager about $5,000 on slots without losing, hope these rouges pay up, and I'll be quids in! :D
    KK
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2005
  32. Jan 24, 2005
  33. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    WTG KK. :thumbsup:

    I love sticky bonuses. Just need a little nerve thats all.

    Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2005
  34. Jan 25, 2005
  35. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I didn't mean you couldn't play 40*bankroll in an hour, just that no one can with an average bet size of 1/60th of bankroll, unless one can play 2400 hands an hour.

    I go away for a couple days, come back, and suddenly we have KK betting $50/hand?!. :) What's this world coming to? Is there nothing we can rely on?I'm afraid the sun may rise in the West tomorrow.

    And, also thanks to you, I think I'll try a few "stickys" one of these days soon.
    Time to bet bigger, try some other games and have some fun. It's boring winning small all the time. Look out Rags to Riches.

    This could be contagious. :)
     
  36. Jan 25, 2005
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    :lolup: Well how about $60 then!

    I didn't mean to though - playing 2 hands of <urgh! oh no!> Blackjack @ $10 each...
    BJ on the first hand - nice! :thumbsup:
    88 on the second, against dealer 5. So I do the right thing (makes a change!) and split them.
    Get another 8, so split again.
    Got 3 on the first one, so doubled to 20
    Got 2 on the second, so doubled to 15
    Got 10 on the last, so stuck on 18. Feeling good at this point!

    Then the dealer turns a 10 & chucks another 5 on it! Aaaarrrgggg! :icon_twis

    I know I actually gained on this hand, but it FEELS like I lost!
    I hate bloody blackjack! RTG as well! :sniper:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2005
  38. Jan 25, 2005
  39. slotchik

    slotchik Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    USA
    I deposited 250, got 250 and bet 500 on the one hand and won.....

    I guess it's a 50/50 shot..why not???? Live a little and be a man! LOL
     

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