Do you know when a slot isn't going give anything and can you stop playing?

For example, did the NetEnt game 'Frankenstein' get approval, when years later, it was discovered to have a 'cheat' built in. Why wasn't this discovered when the coding was 'supposedly' thoroughly checked by the independent testing company, in order to get approval.

Yeah I am still puzzled what happened there.
In the original thread it was never revealed what the"bug" in that game was that allowed players to take advantage of the game.
It was a shady discovery alright. :eek:

I never knew there could be such "weaknesses" in online coded slots.

I remember the good old days in The Netherlands in the early and mid 90's where you could trick a slot by glue-ing a Dutch 5 Gulden coin onto a very slim piece of metal and insert it and retract over and over again to add credits to the slot.
Once enough, just push the cash out button.
The ol' fun days.
 
Yeah I am still puzzled what happened there.
In the original thread it was never revealed what the"bug" in that game was that allowed players to take advantage of the game.
It was a shady discovery alright. :eek:

From what i remember Nicola saying about it. The advantage was gained by pressing a certain combination of keys on your keyboard. So it must have been written into the source code, for the game to recognise these particular keys, and react accordingly.
 
There's nothing wrong with 32Red making an average of 4% on all wagers. I'm sure they make exactly the same every month.
Whether this is down to perfectly balanced mathematics of the games, taking into account the huge range of stake sizes.
Or it's down to some kind of 'overall' compensating mechanism at MGS
. We'll never know.

And I play, because I can, and do win.


Given enough spins, the RTP will be pretty much spot on every month, but there will be small differences each month (as you can see if you go back and check different months in the audit).

Here is an interesting link where you can simulate the house edge upwards of 1 million roulette spins:
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(not my site).
As you can see, on 1000 spins the payback varies all over the place, sometimes on the positive side of the player as well.

When you get to 100 000 and a million spins however, the results will be pretty near the expected RTP in every simulation.

I don't know how many spins that are played on 32Red each month, but I would guess it is well over a million. Slots have a higher variance than roulette, but with that amount of spins played, the RTP each month will be pretty near the theoretical expected RTP.

Where am I going with all this? There is no reason for game providers to program slots in the way you guys are talking about, when enough spins are being played, it will all even out for the casino in the end.
 
Where am I going with all this? There is no reason for game providers to program slots in the way you guys are talking about, when enough spins are being played, it will all even out for the casino in the end.

Well I am not questioning the casino's or slots providers here, let's make that clear.
But it seems slots are sometimes weakly programmed / coded and shows vulnerabilities as happened with Netent's Frankenstein.
I am a strong believer that the RTP or TRTP% will always prevail on the long run.

It has proven itself to me many many times.
 
I have been a player of land based AWP's and slots since I was 18 until present day.

Every now and then a 'cheat' would come along (either a short fall or deliberately put there by programmers, who cares as long as I profited :p)

I have always assumed that online slots would be no different and the odd ones are there as we speak, problem is we as players will very, very rarely get to ever hear about them until its well too late or not at all.

I also go into tin foil territory when I see a slot is constantly dead each and every time I play it and start to wonder whether this particular slot has been previously 'bashed' by someone in the know which has knackered its supposed RTP.

Thoughts and ramblings with no proof but as an experienced gambler who has been around the block a good many times, I sometimes cannot help this line of thought.
 
I have been a player of land based AWP's and slots since I was 18 until present day.

Every now and then a 'cheat' would come along (either a short fall or deliberately put there by programmers, who cares as long as I profited :p)

I have always assumed that online slots would be no different and the odd ones are there as we speak, problem is we as players will very, very rarely get to ever hear about them until its well too late or not at all.

I also go into tin foil territory when I see a slot is constantly dead each and every time I play it and start to wonder whether this particular slot has been previously 'bashed' by someone in the know which has knackered its supposed RTP.

Thoughts and ramblings with no proof but as an experienced gambler who has been around the block a good many times, I sometimes cannot help this line of thought.

You are not the only one who has thought that, it is called gamblers fallacy and is just how our brain works I guess.

The gambler's fallacy, also known as the Monte Carlo fallacy or the fallacy of the maturity of chances, is the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future, or that, if something happens less frequently than normal during some period, it will happen more frequently in the future (presumably as a means of balancing nature).

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Ecogra, which was founded in 2003 by Roger Raatgever - CEO of Microgaming ?????
Obviously no conflict of interest there then.

And what about the audits for Netent?

Also, If these 'independent' auditing and testing companies are so thorough, how, for example, did the NetEnt game 'Frankenstein' get approval, when years later, it was discovered to have a 'cheat' built in. Why wasn't this discovered when the coding was 'supposedly' thoroughly checked by the independent testing company, in order to get approval.

And the game 'Cosmic Fortune', which after it's initial launch, was paying out it's jackpots to all and sundry. Was this not pickup up on during the 'independent' testing

If there is anything 'unrandom' going on. it's down to the games providers, not the casinos. So an egogra audit of 32Red isn't that relevant

The cosmic fortune one is interesting but I've only ever heard it spoken about on letsgiveitaspin's stream. I think it was something along the lines of on it's first day it kept spitting out major jackpots which was supposedly a software fault. I find it interesting because if random is random then in theory that could happen and keep happening for weeks on end..in theory. Just interesting that netent decided it wasn't random and pulled it which I assume was correct.

There was another case with netent and high bets on the mobile version of blood suckers which favoured the player I believe. It was never disclosed (as far as I know) how that came to light and must only have affected a very small number of players.

The difficulty I see is if a game really was broken to the detriment of a player....it would be near on impossible to get the casinos or providers to acknowledge as it's chalked down to random which is probably correct in the majority of cases but obviously not all.
 
There was another case with netent and high bets on the mobile version of blood suckers which favoured the player I believe. It was never disclosed (as far as I know) how that came to light and must only have affected a very small number of players.

Which begs the question.... Why were only high stakes affected?

If an RNG produces a number/numbers to give a reel position, and then pays X number of coins, if there's a win. Then X should be the same, whatever the stake is, shouldn't it?
 
I am not saying there rigged, But are programmed more than we think,

Last Audit< .000% away from the true RTP :eek: BOLLOX can this be achieved, Just like its not possible to get a real time RTP after one session, after 6 months if they said the RTP was 90% and 6 months later said 101% it would sound right, But to be bang on every time an audit is due, Pull the other one

What I honestly belive is that the the providers DO NOT rip us of and the RTP is what it says but not the way we think, I would suggest that they can edit the RTP over set time,

Example::: Say there is 100 milllon loss spins and 1 millon win spins, if the RTP for that much is to much than they take halve the winning numbers out untill there onm the level playing filed, And visa versa, Same as when bet high, The big winning combinations are removed if the RTP is above average,

This is my theory, I belive the payout is what it sais but how it gets there is another story
 
I wish I had done that yesterday in Break Da Bank Again. Turned $7 in VSO Casino race funds and 25 free spins of Golden Fish Tank into $43 on Monday but lost it all trying to get the elusive Premium symbol 25x 5OAK on Tuesday. This game is no replacement for Dead or Alive.

At least I didn't lose money that I deposited. It's getting too tough to win anything now; my luck is all bad. If you live in Ontario, you're better off going to a land-based casino now.
 
Which begs the question.... Why were only high stakes affected?

If an RNG produces a number/numbers to give a reel position, and then pays X number of coins, if there's a win. Then X should be the same, whatever the stake is, shouldn't it?

I really wish people here had a large bankroll to test what ive found. Just so they can see that when you do $9+ spins how the slot drastically changes.

I did a 75,000 spin challenge..low bets vs high. The results are what I figured. Incredibly different. Actually not even close and very suspicious. But unless multiple players do the test, it will never gain steam. You need a bunch of believers to make any progress

First of all just randomly playing doing those types of bets I always thought very strange that hits are impossible. Which turned into the testing I did. From the results and game play experience. I will never ever do a bet above $6 again online.
 
You dont even have to go from small to BIG ones.. you can see difference easily when you play example 20cent bets and game gives you wins , raise bet to 50cent and boom "bad luck that you just got 50 dead spins in a row straight after raising bet" ... its not bad luck.. its systematic
 
I really wish people here had a large bankroll to test what ive found. Just so they can see that when you do $9+ spins how the slot drastically changes.

I did a 75,000 spin challenge..low bets vs high. The results are what I figured. Incredibly different. Actually not even close and very suspicious. But unless multiple players do the test, it will never gain steam. You need a bunch of believers to make any progress

First of all just randomly playing doing those types of bets I always thought very strange that hits are impossible. Which turned into the testing I did. From the results and game play experience. I will never ever do a bet above $6 again online.

I've written comments to this effect previously. Some people pass it off the psychology of playing at high stakes and watching your bankroll haemorrhage but I'm not so sure I agree and I'm talking from experience.

The absolute best example of a game I can give which plays almost entirely different at low stakes and high stakes is golden ticket by play n go.

I was looking at my RTP stats from whitebet the other day and for netent it's horrific. I'm not sure if I deleted it out of horror / disgust but I'll dig them out and post them up if you're interested.
 
....
If all spins were truly random (yep, it's that word again) then there is just as likely the chance that hundreds of casinos going bust overnight. Millions of high rollers could clean up, but of course that hasn't happened.
....

Although they do keep track of your play, for obvious reasons like offer better product or detect fraudsters, there is really no reason to mess with the randomness to make it more profitable.

In physics, there is an example. You know how every molecule of a cup is moving randomly all the time. So it is possible that all molecules of the cup will move at the same direction at the same moment. Did you ever see your cup move around the table on its own? No, never.

What this means is that although something is possible, the probability can be so small that it will never happen.

Is it possible tens of thousands of players to win big at the same time? Yes. Will it happen? Not in a lifetime, and even if it did most of them will never stop until there is nothing left. :)
 
Back to the topic. Do I see it when a slot is going dead? Do I stop?
Yes, I usually see it …… after I run out of money. :oops:

Point is, if you know it is dead, you are already too late to stop.
The only way to win is to stop when you are winning. It is super hard though, and that is why casinos make money. :)
 
This thread seems a bit funny. Never noticed any difference in RTP between playing for low/mid stakes and high stakes. I have to admit I've never played enough spins on the 10-50c level, but hard to see what could change in terms of gameplay.

I probably averaged around $9-10 per spin over roughly 100k in wagers this week and You can in fact end up ahead even without manipulating the frequency of pressing the spin button lol.

The only thing I've noticed is that slots can be streaky, which is true for every gambling game and completely normal in terms of statistics. Could draw paralells to roulette, where I could hit a straight up number 5 times in a row and then have 20 dead spins with exactly the same betting layout.
 
I saw the comments regarding IR as well. That game is so ridiculously volatile that if You have had a 4 reel wild desire once in Your life, You can pretty much retire lol.

I've done a fair bit of grinding for $18 on it at B365 and it hands out free spins on a regular (let me reword that to "normal") basis. When it's WD time at these stakes I always wet myself :D
 
Good example is red riding hood from netent.. first week after release there were lots of on reels features etc.. now ive played 760 spins without single one... how they do this :D
 
I saw the comments regarding IR as well. That game is so ridiculously volatile that if You have had a 4 reel wild desire once in Your life, You can pretty much retire lol.

I've done a fair bit of grinding for $18 on it at B365 and it hands out free spins on a regular (let me reword that to "normal") basis. When it's WD time at these stakes I always wet myself :D

I've just been out and purchased a pipe and some slippers as well as a smoking jacket. I have a nearby friendly pensioner who is also loaning me her 'easy chair'.

Why you ask, this jammy git sitting here has managed 3 x 4 - Reel WD (all which dropped at least 1 picture symbol on the other reel!) so I'm guessing its early retirement time :D.

I still pull my face and swear at the game when I only ever get 1-2 reels wilds these days, expecting (or rather begging for) a 4 reeler every time I see the start button grey out and the WD feature start :eek:
 
Although they do keep track of your play, for obvious reasons like offer better product or detect fraudsters, there is really no reason to mess with the randomness to make it more profitable.

In physics, there is an example. You know how every molecule of a cup is moving randomly all the time. So it is possible that all molecules of the cup will move at the same direction at the same moment. Did you ever see your cup move around the table on its own? No, never.

What this means is that although something is possible, the probability can be so small that it will never happen.

Is it possible tens of thousands of players to win big at the same time? Yes. Will it happen? Not in a lifetime, and even if it did most of them will never stop until there is nothing left. :)

Thank you mr Higgs...

It is theoretically possible to throw the pieces of a shattered glass in the air, for them to land in the shape of the glass as if it wasnt broken. (Except for the glue youd need to use it)

There are novomatic casino's like stargames, where you can actually see hundred of people playing a version of the same slot. You can even look as an observer and see how they are doing.
 
oh come on guys .

When are people going to get the stakes part , as i play abnormal to most people on here & have done four years i can pretty much without doubt state for a fact that they do influence the payouts. far too many things happen on slots. i mean i play as i feel , i may only deposit 50,100,200 or whatever i shall play @ higher stakes 1,2,3,5 only until i bust out .

if as per providers are stating these machines are 100% random it really isn't going to matter whether im playing in 10p chips or $100 chips , the game is equal i have just as much chance of hitting on either stake , bankroll only comes into it when your grinding & have hit a dead patch , keeps you in the game longer this isn't to say that you won't bust out , it does mean you can spin longer. & ride via the dead patches

Funny thing is longer spins can also go the other way, meaning the longer you spin the worst the results , i've always been informed since 18yrs that the longer you play the better it is for the casino , as the odds are always going to get worst , hence i play short sessions, people may find that hard to believe. you've done 6000 spins on slot kept you at same level , good session , but as gamblers you have not won. to state i only play for entertainment unless you're very well off , is kinda not being true to yourself , because pretty much all gamblers play to win , or you just would not do it.

Firstly low stakes below £1.50 great game time, wins up to 1000x bets mainly 50x-300x but here's the key plenty of them yes you get dead patches but in general for me good play & yes i can still bust out. once you surpass the magic 500 -1000 & start wacking up those bets £3 onwards on single spins , the play becomes deadly , lack of wins just brutal ,brutal . change machine same thing ,try another again dead spins , feature pops up . bang down in the 20x bet theory , even on a good day , your be seeing the all important 4x-50x all too often at higher bets , hence to the mind games

i understand lower level bets are going to be played far more , hence to why they may play well.

Almost as if that machines knows that you're playing at higher stakes , only a few handful of wins of 300X bets at £3 per spin onwards in many many years of playing & never once have i seen a 500x bet or more @ a £9 bet or higher.

Take jungle jim over MG ( oldschool one ) @>>>>>>>............ i play this slot at higher bets in fact normal start point is £7.50 onwards , rarely win on it, never hit 10 spins @ 5x at this stake , this is a medium game , i can play on lower bets for a fair while features hitting on regular basis then , as pointed out higher stakes it goes ice cold , yet to see it go hot at high stakes. ive somewhat tested this slot at others places & just see the same old story.

Roulette again sadly when i cover 7-9 numbers & go 27 spins without a hit it does make you wonder how on earth is that random i always have one number with a ok big bet but it just does not come in , the times i've dropped that bet down & its like a scud missile bang straight in . yes people say its a small sample but it isn't just one session it lots , although again these funds are general from slots , makes you think if it somehow knows the winnings hence to keep busting out 9/10 times.

its the providers that need checking , because im pretty sure its connected via , ip address, accounts logging in all done in milliseconds via a central server/database ,barcrest has a unique code for every player when playing, im damn sure netent do & MG all the other providers . hence player ids , they also don't like the play of VPN , theory this not so much with fraud but other things , again just a guess.

games also should be tested by a unequal group at all stakes not just flat bets.

Hat on & yes dunover already knows i want a hat
 
I have never experienced or heard of a Software tracking the speed of your clicks or anything like that. However, with writing a corresponding code that might be possible. Though, cannot even imagine how long this code would be. I totally understand the way you felt though; I had my issues with gambling in my past years. It all started with slots. Playing slots gave me the feeling of control over the situation and I thought I can stop any time. However, the more I played and clicked the more addicted to it I became. Then started trying to take it easy and to reduce the hours I spend clicking and frustrating myself. I read a ton of articles on gambling and addiction to gambling, also regarding scientific point of view on the whole addiction thing at Casinoz.me. Also, an interesting fact: online gambling causes addiction more often than gambling offline as it provides a more rapid effect and gives an opportunity to gamble alone.
 

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