Do you know when a slot isn't going give anything and can you stop playing?

michielm1

Experienced Member
mm1
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Location
Nederland
Hello my fellow players.

One of the most common reasons for me losing or not withdrawing money from a casino,
is staying on one slot that clearly isnt giving anything and will not give either.
For example, i deposit 20, i get my balance up to 50, then go to another slot like gonzo's quest, thunderstruck 2, starburst, isis, great blue etc...
After losing 20 on that slot i already know it isnt going to give me free spins. Especially when it occasionally pays like 4 to 8 euro in the base game. On gonzo's i see that a lot.
When you dont hit anything over 3 or 4 times bet for at least 80 spins, i feel safe to say the free spins are going to come.
But when it gives sometimes 10 / 15 times betsize, i just know i can kiss my balance goodbye.
But it allways happens when i feel like im already in to deep and i cant stop playing.
Just angry clicking and calling the slot names and repeatedly praising myself for seeing/knowing it.
Its almost as if the software knows you are getting frustrated and completely shuts you down.
Could it be that the software is picking up a slight difference in your clicking speed?
If you start clicking extra to skip the counting or more times clicking because you were too fast?

It kind of feels to me as if its a race between the software and myself, on when to stop giving or to stop playing.
Can i stop when i know im at my max or do i realize i knew that i was on my max 3 slots and 30 euros ago and from then starting to hate click?

Do you experience something like this? You know when you arent going to win but cant cut your losses and bail out?
When i am in shape and in the zone, i feel it very fast. I can make 4 or 5 withdrawals a day of an average of 1.5 or 2 times deposit, but when i am out of sync, i piss through several 3 to 4 times deposit wins.

Please share your experiences and insights
 

babyjoker

Dormant account
Joined
May 1, 2014
Location
UK
Last nights experience, went on Gorilla Go's Wild with around £180

11 or 12 bonuses paying max 5-10x so very poor and lost around £130 so down to £50 odd, I continued playing as by that point I thought have the lot you greedy monkey!

Next bonus comes, then the next and the next, suddenly I'm up to £400 so I'd have to disagree and say you never know when it's gonna heat up, admittedly that took over 500 spins to warm up but still... :D
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
I've become too lazy with my slotting these days. Not only do I not spin manually anymore, but I tend to stay on the same game regardless of how well I'm doing on it :(

I cannot be bothered with slot-hopping, so if the game doesn't play well I'm generally doomed.

The worst part is realizing that your session has gone completely wrong, but changing games makes no difference because your balance is too small, or the hope that having lost £50 that the free spins are due......but they never come!

Of course playing high-variance games all the time is the problem, as leaving a game too soon makes you wonder 'what if?', and often I have been down to a few pence and recovered my balance, if not more.

Still, nothing worse than a game trolling you with double scatters as you're almost bust, or getting that bonus round after years only to get 3.5x stake!

More often than not, I'll just stay on a slot then knowing I'm not going to get a bonus. I'll only switch when I have at least £30 left, or even my last £15-20. Then it's DOA time :cool:
 

Pulver

Senior Member
webmeister
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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Location
Tellus
Each outcome of a spin on a slot machine is decided by the built in RNG (random number generator). It has no connection with the previous spin, and no connection with the next spin, this is what random means, and all slots from known providers have been proven to be random. The prospect of "hot" and "cold" machines has more to do with the brain making patterns out of previous events, rather than the phenomenon actually existing.

The fact that a slot is random does not mean that crazy things can't happen, you can get 10 features in a row, and you can in theory go thousands of spins without hitting a feature. The variance on slot machines are huge, that is why you can have winning sessions even though the payout of a machine has a negative expectation in the long run.

All slots have a built in house edge, so the slot is bound to bring in money for the casino in the long run. The casino is not tracking your click speed or other thin foil hat stuff like that, the house edge makes sure that the casino will come out on top, given that enough spins is played to even out the swings.

Sorry to be a party pooper, slots can be great fun to play and I play them myself, but it is important to know the mechanisms behind them. They are means of entertainment, not a way to make money in the long run.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
I tend to stick to the same slots majority of the time,

Does not take long to know that session is doomed, I find if I leave the game and restart it seems to be a complete new session, But its leaving the game is the trouble, Just a few more spins lol,

I know people say its all random but I have gone hundreds of spins with out bonus, restart the game and bonus whiten a few spins, Coincidence ? I do not think so, I have tried it in the hundreds, Now would that of bonus round drooped in if I did not restart the game? I doubt it, I think each time a slot is open its got its numbers plugged in already, And changes eacth time its opened,

I have tried and tested, Shall I leave the game now? No few hundred more spins and nothing,

Other times, Shall I leave the game now? Yes and restart for a bonus to drop in real quick,

As I said I have tried this hundreds of times, about 90% works out if game restarts :confused:
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
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Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
I tend to stick to the same slots majority of the time,

Does not take long to know that session is doomed
, I find if I leave the game and restart it seems to be a complete new session, But its leaving the game is the trouble, Just a few more spins lol,

I know people say its all random but I have gone hundreds of spins with out bonus, restart the game and bonus whiten a few spins, Coincidence ? I do not think so, I have tried it in the hundreds, Now would that of bonus round drooped in if I did not restart the game? I doubt it, I think each time a slot is open its got its numbers plugged in already, And changes eacth time its opened,

I have tried and tested, Shall I leave the game now? No few hundred more spins and nothing,

Other times, Shall I leave the game now? Yes and restart for a bonus to drop in real quick,

As I said I have tried this hundreds of times, about 90% works out if game restarts :confused:

'DOOM' - a word I use in my videos a lot. It's natural to see patterns and I'm certain there are 'tells' on some games as Michelim says. Rhino sometimes does a jerky spin the spin BEFORE the feature comes and on Thunderstruck2 the scatters tend to be very frequent on the reels before a bonus drops in. Cleopatra by IGT used to do a pattern of spins like 'dang' - dang dang - dang- nothing - dang dang dang over 5 spins for the feature. (dang being one scatter!).

Or is just selective memory....? :eek:
 

Jono777

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mm4
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May 13, 2014
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Wolverhampton
'DOOM' - a word I use in my videos a lot. It's natural to see patterns and I'm certain there are 'tells' on some games as Michelim says. Rhino sometimes does a jerky spin the spin BEFORE the feature comes and on Thunderstruck2 the scatters tend to be very frequent on the reels before a bonus drops in. Cleopatra by IGT used to do a pattern of spins like 'dang' - dang dang - dang- nothing - dang dang dang over 5 spins for the feature. (dang being one scatter!).

Or is just selective memory....? :eek:

Nope spot on!

Tells galore, more so when you're an experienced player such as us (or those who should know better ??)

Novomatic are reliable for tells, 2 scatters galore (every 9-10th spin) then most times a feature is less than 50 spins away.

DOA had a 'dead' tell when the only scatter showing is on reel one alone.

I could go on forever though I rarely benefit from any of this 'knowledge' :oops:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Each outcome of a spin on a slot machine is decided by the built in RNG (random number generator). It has no connection with the previous spin, and no connection with the next spin, this is what random means, and all slots from known providers have been proven to be random. The prospect of "hot" and "cold" machines has more to do with the brain making patterns out of previous events, rather than the phenomenon actually existing.

The fact that a slot is random does not mean that crazy things can't happen, you can get 10 features in a row, and you can in theory go thousands of spins without hitting a feature. The variance on slot machines are huge, that is why you can have winning sessions even though the payout of a machine has a negative expectation in the long run.

All slots have a built in house edge, so the slot is bound to bring in money for the casino in the long run. The casino is not tracking your click speed or other thin foil hat stuff like that, the house edge makes sure that the casino will come out on top, given that enough spins is played to even out the swings.

Sorry to be a party pooper, slots can be great fun to play and I play them myself, but it is important to know the mechanisms behind them. They are means of entertainment, not a way to make money in the long run.

Actually, sometimes it is;)

A few casinos in the past had a term banning the use of autoplay "for the sole purpose of meeting WR". They actually DID confiscate winnings based on analysing clicks made by the players with a view to using this to determine whether or not they had used autoplay for almost the entire session. This was classed as a "BS term", and such a term found in an accredited casino would cause it problems. Although this wasn't used to change outcomes, it does show that some casinos will go to such lengths when monitoring "style of play" for what is often called "irregular play" in the terms.

Click rate and behaviour is also analysed to determine if a player is likely to be using a bot, which most casinos ban. In a way, this can change outcomes because if you click too fast, too regular, and for too long, the casino might void the winnings on the grounds of bot play, even though they can't detect the bot itself where one is used.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
'DOOM' - a word I use in my videos a lot. It's natural to see patterns and I'm certain there are 'tells' on some games as Michelim says. Rhino sometimes does a jerky spin the spin BEFORE the feature comes and on Thunderstruck2 the scatters tend to be very frequent on the reels before a bonus drops in. Cleopatra by IGT used to do a pattern of spins like 'dang' - dang dang - dang- nothing - dang dang dang over 5 spins for the feature. (dang being one scatter!).

Or is just selective memory....? :eek:

Guaranteed one, TS1 the spin pauses for a millisecond and than the spin is a slight longer than normal, thats a win, let it be 2 9;s or bonus,

IR if that 5 reel spins and you see the 3rd scatter straight away than it will not hit, I am not saying it nether will but from experience just hot the start to finish the spin,
 

michielm1

Experienced Member
mm1
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Location
Nederland
Each outcome of a spin on a slot machine is decided by the built in RNG (random number generator). It has no connection with the previous spin, and no connection with the next spin, this is what random means, and all slots from known providers have been proven to be random. The prospect of "hot" and "cold" machines has more to do with the brain making patterns out of previous events, rather than the phenomenon actually existing.

The fact that a slot is random does not mean that crazy things can't happen, you can get 10 features in a row, and you can in theory go thousands of spins without hitting a feature. The variance on slot machines are huge, that is why you can have winning sessions even though the payout of a machine has a negative expectation in the long run.

All slots have a built in house edge, so the slot is bound to bring in money for the casino in the long run. The casino is not tracking your click speed or other thin foil hat stuff like that, the house edge makes sure that the casino will come out on top, given that enough spins is played to even out the swings.

Sorry to be a party pooper, slots can be great fun to play and I play them myself, but it is important to know the mechanisms behind them. They are means of entertainment, not a way to make money in the long run.

look mate... this is way too rationalistic for me. if you play like that, it would be like throwing your money away.
i believe in science, but when it comes to playing slots in casino's, i feel like there are layers upon layers of cover ups, software recognition and an enormous database of each and every ip addresse and username and all details of every spin. probably somewhere in a facility under the greenland ice caps or in a mountain.
Artificial intelligence is running them things and it better likes you m8.
 

michielm1

Experienced Member
mm1
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Location
Nederland
Guaranteed one, TS1 the spin pauses for a millisecond and than the spin is a slight longer than normal, thats a win, let it be 2 9;s or bonus,

IR if that 5 reel spins and you see the 3rd scatter straight away than it will not hit, I am not saying it nether will but from experience just hot the start to finish the spin,

especially when you play on mobile right?
and when you get fs on ts1 within 25% of deposit, and it pays about 20/40 x bet, you get them all the time when you min increase your betsize...

also with novomatic, winning spins makes your balance reduce faster than losing spins.
 

Yorkstar

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Location
Stockton on tees
Many times I've felt I'm not going to win, and you end up 100s in convinced a big bonus is on the way, yes this does happen, but of course after going daft making deposit after deposit eventually it's a case of up poo creek without a paddle.

Often happens chasing after a load of beers been consumed, has I've find out many a times gambling and boozing don't really mix, will I learn, maybe but defintely not.

Think my problem is as well I've played plenty of fruities for over 20 years, and as many of you know they have set percentages, so quite often you get money back, forcing jackpots e.t.c, I guess the fruit machine psychie still sometimes kicks in thinking that streak/percentage will be on the way back at some point, it is very easy to fall into the chasing game when online, Idealy when online on a session, I do try a few quid in and if dead move on, and try to play a big variation of slots, although they always seems to be one that reels you in , pardon the pun.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
look mate... this is way too rationalistic for me. if you play like that, it would be like throwing your money away.
i believe in science, but when it comes to playing slots in casino's, i feel like there are layers upon layers of cover ups, software recognition and an enormous database of each and every ip addresse and username and all details of every spin. probably somewhere in a facility under the greenland ice caps or in a mountain.
Artificial intelligence is running them things and it better likes you m8.

I don't think it's crazy to believe that providers run tracking software or software recognition, it is a multi-million dollar industry that likely needs some safeguards in place. Just as our every movement is tracked online, I don't see why basic computer software cannot be altered.

If all spins were truly random (yep, it's that word again) then there is just as likely the chance that hundreds of casinos going bust overnight. Millions of high rollers could clean up, but of course that hasn't happened.

We are led to assume that RTP will even itself out over millions of spins, yet the chance of thousands of players all winning big is nowhere to be seen.

Whilst I'm not that sceptical of the casinos themselves, the software providers are getting away with blue murder, and are happy to pluck random percentages from the sky, knowing that no one will ever achieve anywhere near those figures.

Their lack of transparency is astounding, so while no proof of tampering exists, I'll never be wholly convinced that they don't have some underlying control over player patterns. Some slot play is less random and just plain erratic, not to mention the absurd 'killswitch' sessions that you can see coming a mile off.

*Ok Netent & MG, I can't make myself any clearer bar getting on my knees and begging. Just give me that triple wildline/ 5-reel shitstorm already
 
Last edited:

slotter999

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Location
UK
I don't think it's crazy to believe that providers run tracking software or software recognition, it is a multi-million dollar industry that likely needs some safeguards in place. Just as our every movement is tracked online, I don't see why basic computer software cannot be altered.

If all spins were truly random (yep, it's that word again) then there is just as likely the chance that hundreds of casinos going bust overnight. Millions of high rollers could clean up, but of course that hasn't happened.

We are led to assume that RTP will even itself out over millions of spins, yet the chance of thousands of players all winning big is nowhere to be seen.

Whilst I'm not that sceptical of the casinos themselves, the software providers are getting away with blue murder, and are happy to pluck random percentages from the sky, knowing that no one will ever achieve anywhere near those figures.

Their lack of transparency is astounding, so while no proof of tampering exists, I'll never be wholly convinced that they don't have some underlying control over player patterns. Some slot play is less random and just plain erratic, not to mention the absurd 'killswitch' sessions that you can see coming a mile off.

*Ok Netent & MG, I can't myself any clearer bar getting on my knees and begging. Just give me that triple wildline/ 5-reel shitstorm already

I agree that the lack of transparency is astonishing. The simple solution would surely be to force the game providers to hand over their stats once a quarter as a condition of their licence. I vaguely recall something along these lines happening in Denmark but I could be mistaken.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
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Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Each outcome of a spin on a slot machine is decided by the built in RNG (random number generator). It has no connection with the previous spin, and no connection with the next spin, this is what random means, and all slots from known providers have been proven to be random. The prospect of "hot" and "cold" machines has more to do with the brain making patterns out of previous events, rather than the phenomenon actually existing.

The fact that a slot is random does not mean that crazy things can't happen, you can get 10 features in a row, and you can in theory go thousands of spins without hitting a feature. The variance on slot machines are huge, that is why you can have winning sessions even though the payout of a machine has a negative expectation in the long run.

All slots have a built in house edge, so the slot is bound to bring in money for the casino in the long run. The casino is not tracking your click speed or other thin foil hat stuff like that, the house edge makes sure that the casino will come out on top, given that enough spins is played to even out the swings.

Sorry to be a party pooper, slots can be great fun to play and I play them myself, but it is important to know the mechanisms behind them. They are means of entertainment, not a way to make money in the long run.

Is this your opinion, or do you have some tangible evidence to back up your statements?
 

michielm1

Experienced Member
mm1
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Location
Nederland
I don't think it's crazy to believe that providers run tracking software or software recognition, it is a multi-million dollar industry that likely needs some safeguards in place. Just as our every movement is tracked online, I don't see why basic computer software cannot be altered.

If all spins were truly random (yep, it's that word again) then there is just as likely the chance that hundreds of casinos going bust overnight. Millions of high rollers could clean up, but of course that hasn't happened.

We are led to assume that RTP will even itself out over millions of spins, yet the chance of thousands of players all winning big is nowhere to be seen.

Whilst I'm not that sceptical of the casinos themselves, the software providers are getting away with blue murder, and are happy to pluck random percentages from the sky, knowing that no one will ever achieve anywhere near those figures.

Their lack of transparency is astounding, so while no proof of tampering exists, I'll never be wholly convinced that they don't have some underlying control over player patterns. Some slot play is less random and just plain erratic, not to mention the absurd 'killswitch' sessions that you can see coming a mile off.

*Ok Netent & MG, I can't make myself any clearer bar getting on my knees and begging. Just give me that triple wildline/ 5-reel shitstorm already

Addition to your *... "while by accident having clicked the max bet button"

We know you rigged the shit out of the software and we expect nothing less.
If it would be all random, it would be near to impossible to have great runs or long time droughts, because the chances are just all layed out.
We want to wear tin hats, we want to be nervous when cashing out a big prize from a reputable casino that might have gone rogue over night, we want to be fooled.
If morpheus would have given me pills... i would take them. 50 / 50 on getting high as f... are good odds. But he better put my ass back in that bucket with that slime that makes me think im eating steak and having chances to get a chance of having the possibility of winning something.

I realize this is exactly the arguement religeous people make on the exsitance of a creator and dismiss all scientifical edvidence like it was a setup by the devil.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
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Jan 17, 2014
Location
Canada
Ive learned some things the more I play.

For one, after the first avalon 2 bonus of rolling dice the next 2 bonus take alot of grinding to get. Ive tested this out probably 12 or so times. I always lower my bet for 100-200 spins.

You can also tell when that slot goes cold. Alot of 3 of a kinds and no scatters.

Seems to work for me

Im hoping slots have a memory because if so, GoT owes me a massive hit. The money ive poured into that slot is pretty crazy lol. I get up $1000...head to GoT in search of that hit...and lose $200-$300 every time!

I also think you should never do $4.50 and above spins. As ive said before I think it plays on a different server. Every single time without fail the slots will go instantly cold. And then when you lower bets you start playing normal again.

For example I was doing $4.50 bets on Immortal Romance. Did probably 500 spins. wasnt paying, no features. I lowered my bet and got wild desire a few times and a few bonuses instantly. This has happened to me alot and actually a few times on this exact same slot.

Doing $9-$15 spins it gets even worse. Good luck ever hitting anything on those bet sizes. It aint happening
 

Pulver

Senior Member
webmeister
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Location
Tellus
Is this your opinion, or do you have some tangible evidence to back up your statements?

Tangible evidence of what?

That the house edge is how a casino makes it's money? Why would a casino go through all the trouble and nonsense you guys are talking about when each and every slot has a built in edge, ensuring them that if enough spins are played, they will come out on top anyways?
 

slotter999

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Location
UK
Tangible evidence of what?

That the house edge is how a casino makes it's money? Why would a casino go through all the trouble and nonsense you guys are talking about when each and every slot has a built in edge, ensuring them that if enough spins are played, they will come out on top anyways?

That will be a no then :)
 

Pulver

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That will be a no then :)

So you are implying that casinos make their money not from the house edge of each slot, but by some other mysterious way?

Here you have the payout report from 32Red: Old / Expired Link

They are audited each month, you can see the results for yourself.

September 2016 All games: 96.05%
September 2016 Slots: 96.08%
 

jackanory2279

Registered
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
england
you dont know.. what i do is copy nickslots,, i pretty much like all the same slots as he does. i always set a minimum amount to leave the slot on..
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
Last nights experience, went on Gorilla Go's Wild with around £180

11 or 12 bonuses paying max 5-10x so very poor and lost around £130 so down to £50 odd, I continued playing as by that point I thought have the lot you greedy monkey!

Next bonus comes, then the next and the next, suddenly I'm up to £400 so I'd have to disagree and say you never know when it's gonna heat up, admittedly that took over 500 spins to warm up but still... :D

Praise yourself lucky...I kept playing also on this piece of crap but for me it never ever recovered.
I am down like 1500 Euro on this at a certain casino (measured over multiple sessions).
Stupidly I always tend to go back and play it because at some stage it has to give something back I suppose.
Can't get anything better than 10-30x in any of the free spin rounds, no matter what feature I pick.
The stay wild feature is a joke as all of a sudden the wilds are gone from the reels and the more wilds feature most of the time only reward 1 symbol to turn wild but even if you are lucky to get 3 symbols it still will make sure those symbols will not drop on the reels.

Anyway not complaining too much as most of that 1500 Euro was winnings from other slots, still a waste tho. :eek2:;)

A sick slot and for me on the nomination for worst slot ever.


To retort the OP's question, I have never looked at it that way.
A slot can feel hot or cold for me but even when it is cold it still will give out the bonus or free spins, it probably just will pay some coppers and nickels.

Gorilla's go Wild is actually the prime example here.
I manage to trigger the FS quite often, only it does not pay.
I think that slot actually is broken! :):p
 

brianmon

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Location
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So you are implying that casinos make their money not from the house edge of each slot, but by some other mysterious way?

Here you have the payout report from 32Red: Old / Expired Link

They are audited each month, you can see the results for yourself.

September 2016 All games: 96.05%
September 2016 Slots: 96.08%

Ecogra, which was founded in 2003 by Roger Raatgever - CEO of Microgaming ?????
Obviously no conflict of interest there then.

And what about the audits for Netent?

Also, If these 'independent' auditing and testing companies are so thorough, how, for example, did the NetEnt game 'Frankenstein' get approval, when years later, it was discovered to have a 'cheat' built in. Why wasn't this discovered when the coding was 'supposedly' thoroughly checked by the independent testing company, in order to get approval.

And the game 'Cosmic Fortune', which after it's initial launch, was paying out it's jackpots to all and sundry. Was this not pickup up on during the 'independent' testing

If there is anything 'unrandom' going on. it's down to the games providers, not the casinos. So an egogra audit of 32Red isn't that relevant
 

Pulver

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Location
Tellus
Ecogra, which was founded in 2003 by Roger Raatgever - CEO of Microgaming ?????
Obviously no conflict of interest there then.

And what about the audits for Netent?

Also, If these 'independent' auditing and testing companies are so thorough, how, for example, did the NetEnt game 'Frankenstein' get approval, when years later, it was discovered to have a 'cheat' built in. Why wasn't this discovered when the coding was 'supposedly' thoroughly checked by the independent testing company, in order to get approval.

And the game 'Cosmic Fortune', which after it's initial launch, was paying out it's jackpots to all and sundry. Was this not pickup up on during the 'independent' testing

If there is anything 'unrandom' going on. it's down to the games providers, not the casinos. So an egogra audit of 32Red isn't that relevant

What was wrong with the audit showing that 32Red earned almost 4% on every wager placed in september? Is it your opinion that this number should be bigger?

If this is your mindset, why are you even playing?
 

brianmon

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Location
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What was wrong with the audit showing that 32Red earned almost 4% on every wager placed in september? Is it your opinion that this number should be bigger?

If this is your mindset, why are you even playing?

There's nothing wrong with 32Red making an average of 4% on all wagers. I'm sure they make exactly the same every month.
Whether this is down to perfectly balanced mathematics of the games, taking into account the huge range of stake sizes.
Or it's down to some kind of 'overall' compensating mechanism at MGS. We'll never know.

And I play, because I can, and do win.
 
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