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Casino Complaint Do this Casino break the rules??

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Jensa, Jul 2, 2015.

    Jul 2, 2015
  1. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    Hello! I'm new here so i hope i post this in the correct place

    Shortly, if a casino have a general rule at their site that says "The maximum amount of money you will be allowed to deposit in any one transaction is EUR 5,000"
    i made one deposit at EUR 5,400 and I asked the casino if "someone" do deposit more then 5.000, what would happen? And this is their answer:

    "Please be advised that the purpose of section 8.5 of our terms and conditions is to limit our financial exposure in respect of substantially high deposits.
    Therefore, where a member is able to deposit a sum in excess of the threshold set in section 8.5, the result is an increased risk to us; this does not amount to a disregard of the measures aimed to protect the member (you.) (indeed, nothing in that section 8.5 prevents the member from making multiple deposits or limits the wagering amounts)."

    I'm not 100% good at English so maybe someone can help me understand this. Why is there a rule if it doesn't really mean anything or have any function?
    It feels like they have made a mistake.
    I also felt that there VIP encourage me to do more deposits, he said "Your luck will only change if you play more", And he promised me a Cruise for 12 days if I kept being loyal and playing at good stakes. He gave me his word on that.
    I deposit totally around €24.000 within 24h, no questions asked from them and no suspicions from them. (Of course they see the money flooding, but if I had won I bet my account would have been frozen)
    I tried to withdraw EUR 40.. I need to verify my account. Maybe its a correct rule but what the f*ck.. i really don't like that rule.
    I have all this documented on screen shots and mail conversations.
    I choose not to put the casino name out at this point, maybe later in thread if I have some answers that require casino name to warn others.. but since he promised me a cruise some of you might have a clue about what casino im talking about.
    He also said i should ask him before playing, because he might know what game to play to win.. it didn't work.

    Hope someone have some answers to my questions.

    Jensa
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Jul 2, 2015
  3. Kadabra

    Kadabra Full Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    offline
    The answer is vague, but basically the idea is to protect the casino from fraud - that a new player comes and makes huge deposits. The question is why they don't limit it automatically - not sure.

    When you noticed this rule - after you played the deposit or it's still in your account? If it's still in your account - I would first contact the casino and tell them that i by mistake deposited above the limit and get a written answer that it's ok and i can go on and play. (also would save that chat).

    No, it won't. Maybe you will win, maybe you won't, but you should defenitly ignore support reps that say that.

    Maybe there are few casinos that offer cruises, but in any case - you can read the terms of this promotion. The one i know doesn't just give cruises, but it's a lottery, so no rep can promise that.

    Common rule for first withdrawal.

    That's not nice behavior from the cs. Totally unprofessional and shady.
     
    5 people like this.
  4. Jul 2, 2015
  5. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    24K in less then 24 hours seem's a bit much if you aren't 100% sure about this place..

    Anyway, that rule doesn't seem to mean much, and seeing as you already said you deposited 5.400 once, and that answer is really not an answer, it seems it isn't a big issue: The rule only states that you can do deposits of 5000 maximum per transaction, meaning 24K or more in several transactions, is o.k. And if they didn't lock your account, or say anything else after you deposited 400 more then their rule states, it doesn't seem to be a real issue: it could be something that has to do with money laundering protection...

    I don't see an issue with revealing the Casino's name, since you don't have a complaint, and if you do, then we could check their terms and conditions for a more complete picture, as there may be some more clarity if we see it in the right context.


    And on the fact that your VIP-rep encouraged you to deposit more, or keep to depositing frequently, that's pretty normal, And the cruise is just an offer, but i think if you really make a habit of throwing 24K around in a day, you can go on any cruise you want:)

    High rolling means you need a Casino that will pay/is trustworthy, and there are a bunch here on the site that aim at high rollers, and have splendid reputations, and VIP packages: best picks from personal experience would be 32Red, Redbet, Guts, Unibet, mrGreen and Igame, so i suggest you get in touch with one of their VIP-reps, and see if they can offer something better than a cruise for someone that plays that intensively, but that's just a suggestion:)

    Edit:

    I see kadabra made some good points whilst i was typing, and i also noticed i missed the part where the rep offered you to contact him first to tell you what games are hot, that could indeed be considered a bit shady, since as far as i know it isn't allowed to divulge sensitive info (like the daily spendings on one particular slot, and the last time it has paid out for instance, suggesting that it may now have to pay out big soon) that isn't factual.

    It's a sort of a hook line and sinker move, as if he "got lucky" and you would have won big on his suggestions, you may have believed him, and from there on you might have given him more credibility than he actually deserved up to that point otherwise...
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Jul 2, 2015
  7. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    I don't know how to make good quotes like you incrediblestuff so i answered you questions on after the other.

    Yes i indeed agree that not very smart from me to deposit 24k in a new casino, but i did.
    If i deposit EUR 4999 and 4999 again i get it, but this one deposit were around EUR 5400 so something should have happened.. transaction error, money laundry etc
    And i could have travelled the world around a few times for those money, (I wish i did instead) but I didn't play from the beginning to win the cruise

    I had accounts on several casinos in the past, like Leo Vegas, Unibet, Betsson, Redbet.. all good Casinos in my opinion.. but i had (have) some gambling problems so i closed these account and also many other casinos aswell.
    I found this casino ( Casino Cruise ) and i tried my luck.
    Hopefully this was my last casino impulse playing. Its not that i do this to get my money back, I know its more or less impossible and really no reason to get them either, but the way the VIP encourage me to spend more money, i don't want any other person in my situation to be there.. At first i really wondered if this casino was fake, still do a bit.

    To Kadabra:

    I were new player, high deposit.. as i said to incrediblestuff something should have happend here.. something lacked from there side in my opinion.
    I noticed this rule after i had deposit the money, and after i lost them.
    Sure i should ignore them, but are they allowed to say so?
    This cruise is as you said a lottery, but he said would send me on one if i didnt win this one.

    SO if you want to look at their rules, the one i mentioned is 8.5, its on You must register/login in order to see the link. . Its sometimes very slow page so be patience.
    Hope i answered your questions.

    Jensa
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jul 2, 2015
  9. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    The pictures became much smaller, hopefully you still can see the deposits.. and its in Swedish kronor, if you want to check for yourself.
    Do this Casino break the rules??: deposits.jpg,Jul 2, 2015 Do this Casino break the rules??: terms and cond.jpg,Jul 2, 2015
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jul 2, 2015
  11. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    Technically they may not be required to verify your account before you withdraw.
    It very strange they haven't though, considering the amounts involved.
    I'm surprised they've let all the deposits through - usually you have to establish yourself as a VIP and have some history with the casino before limits are raised.

    According to their website they "have an array of technical tools, procedures and processes to facilitate responsible gaming in our casino."
    To be honest, if your playing style did not at least alert them of your account, I wonder what will.


    Freddy
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jul 2, 2015
  13. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Hmm, that Casino was recently accredited i believe, so should be o.k., but of course it's in a very early stage..
    If the VIP rep promised you that cruise,i hope they will at least still credit you that, regardless of depositing more or not, and it seems you are not very good at restraining yourself when you are in the "gambling zone"

    Self excluding from good Casino's won't help you, in fact, it may only lead you to resort to play at less acceptable places, that all have no problem taking your money, when you get the urge to gamble, much like what happened now. I am not saying Casino Cruise is a bad place, i just think, like Freddy stated above, that they may have felt the need to look into it sooner, or more critically: it's not uncommon for high rollers to dump an amount of that magnitude in one day, but it;'s also not common that one makes so many deposits in a row.. this would sooner indicate a lack of self restraint, then when you had just made two big deposits of 12K, but it's not yet my place to go into that further, as i have no idea of the actual conversations..

    But, when you say you have done this before, i just noticed all your deposits are with trustly: isn't that that less ethical Swedish method whereby you can get credit for gambling? If so, then that is quite bad: it may be good for Casino's that use such a method, especially when in a licensing such as Malta or the UKGC, to take some measures to restrict deposit's made through an entity that does give credit, such as trustly, but also credit cards. That is where a number such as 5K would make sense, as a threshold to not accept more from any new player, until they completed some form of the KYC-procedure... after all, most Casino's also have a max withdrawal limit for first timers, i believe much lower, at 2500, which can only be paid out after the KYC is completed.

    Anyway, you might want to contact the rep here, but i am sure they will come by soon enough, and we'll see what happens from there. Until then, but also for future reference: if you really like gambling, and didn't use trustly as creditor, but just as a merchant, but did end up having spent much more then you actually wanted, this time and the times before, and still don't feel like quitting, then i suggest you pick one of the longer standing Casino's, and then use a player support manager there, to set some very strict budget rules. Most Casino's that genuinely care for responsible gambling, will have software implementations with which you can set a capped amount that you can deposit, and you can set up an agreement with management, that no matter what, these limits are never to be adjusted for you, no matter what. In that case you can feel safe you will never cross that budget, and this would be a whole lot better then your current situation.

    Long story short, i am still not quite sure if you really have a gambling problem, or just lost control on several occasions, and ended up chasing, and losing a lot, then closing the accounts..

    Whatever may be the case, some action is required, and you would do god to establish yourself, as to what category you belong to. Then take the necessary steps.

    And by the way, that 5K rule, is in Euros, and you deposited in SEK, so indeed it could be they let that slip by, as the currency conversion is subject to change, and fluctuates constantly, so they may have an upper threshold there too.
    (like a max 500 euros over or something along those lines)
     
  14. Jul 2, 2015
  15. Kadabra

    Kadabra Full Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    offline
    Each casino has it's own risk management levels. Some would limit you automatically, some think that just mentioning is enough for them. I do agree with you that it's better to have it done automatically.

    However, I don't think that's the main thing here.

    Obviously, casinos are a business and the job of the representatives is to keep you playing: some do it by just giving you the best support, but usually it doesn't stop there, online and offline...

    In this particular case, in my opinion, he crossed the line. But, and this is a big one - it is still your responsibility to decide how much to gamble and when to stop. I know it's easy to say, but that's the truth.

    2 comments:

    1. No one can tell you which slot is going to pay soon. Even the hot/cold statistic is irrelevant. Whoever says that he can show you a winning slot is lying.
    2. Maybe, you can set a cap for your daily deposits. Many casinos allow that (not all of them actually keep that) - but it is possible. Of course, you can still go arround it and deposit in another casino - so the bottom line, it's still up to you to limit yourself.
     
  16. Jul 3, 2015
  17. onkel

    onkel Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Larnaca, Cyprus, Cyprus
    OP - I don't think you have any shot of getting your money back, but if the VIP rep said what you told us they said, then I think Casinocruise's accreditation should be up for question. Do you have any record of this conversation?
     
  18. Jul 3, 2015
  19. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden


    Im not sure what it means with "less ethical Swedish method and get credit" the deposit are made through the bank, log into bank account and accept, if theres no money in the bank account you cant deposit as far as i know, It feels its a safe method.

    Thats a good idea you had to finding a good casino and make up some kind of deal so i cant change deposits at any time.. because i did do this from the beginning mostly because its fun to play, now its still fun at the moment, but when the moment is over the damages sometimes are bigger then I wanted.. so i guess i have some sort of problem playing sometimes.
    I Have tryied talk to them at the casino about these quesions i asked, they said nothing more is to be said.

    About the "5 K rule" it could be like you say it fluctuates constantly, but 400 isnt euros is bit to high to be within these lines?
    if the EURO go up from today 9.3773 to 10.0 then its exactly 5000 euro = 50.000 SEK.
    Last time the Euro were worth 10SEK were in januari 2010, before and after its been around 9 euro, have a look here:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Tanks for answers!
     
  20. Jul 3, 2015
  21. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    From how i understand it all casinos need to verify withdraws over EUR 2300 something, not sure at the exakt number, but some casinos have this rule they have to verify all withdraws, and the others can choose if they want to or not up to EUR 2300.
    I might be wrong
     
  22. Jul 3, 2015
  23. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    Indeed i don't blame anyone else for loosing the money, i did the deposits and i played.
    Its the way he behave and what he said.. They shouldn't be allowed to do that.
     
  24. Jul 3, 2015
  25. Kadabra

    Kadabra Full Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    offline
    I completely agree and yet I am sure they will :)

    Check if they have an option to set cap limits and if they stick to it - meaning won't change the moment you come and say that you want to deposit more. There are few brands that are good at that. It's not a perfect solution but still something.

    Regarding max deposit: I don't think it's a matter of currency fluctuation. Probably, they do not have automatic cap or it is set higher. Second, it also might be related to the fact that it wasn't your first deposit and after making a number of x,xxx deposits you were automatically moved to a Vip class.
     
  26. Jul 3, 2015
  27. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    No i dont think i will, and its not the point.. its the way they behave and what's going on. TO warn others if there's some wrong going on.
    I have screen shot, its in Swedish tho but you can ask almighty google translate for help :)

    Do this Casino break the rules??: 1.jpg,Jul 3, 2015 Do this Casino break the rules??: 3.jpg,Jul 3, 2015 Do this Casino break the rules??: 5.jpg,Jul 3, 2015
     
  28. Jul 3, 2015
  29. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight MM

    Occupation:
    Nothing much
    Location:
    PokieLand
    Sadly, that won't work when it comes to images...
    It's gonna be really complicated to write everything by hand in google translate :)

    I'm sorry you lost that amount, dude...

    Maybe setting some deposit limits when you create your account on any casino;
    And stop chasing. It never works out, trust me!
     
  30. Jul 3, 2015
  31. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    It seems they have a cruise raffle going in which you've earned a certain amount of tickets. I had a quick look at their site and according to the promo terms you get one ticket for your first deposit during the qualifying period (June and July). It does not mention getting more tickets for further deposits as the rep implies.

    It's clear he promised you a guaranteed cruise should you continue depositing and playing at a 'good level'.

    Also he defintely said your luck would turn.


    Freddy
     
  32. Jul 3, 2015
  33. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    I know, i know.. but still we end up chasing, or if i reach that amount i stop, or if i go down to that amount i stop.
    Mostly do stop, when balance dont let me place more bets.

    here you go, from first picture:

    Me: Alright bättre att jag beställer en egen kryssning och sparar pengarna, blir ju en fruktansvärt dyr resa annars.
    Vad finns att erbjuda i nuläget utan fler insättningar? Fram till jag fått ut något känns det onödigt att spela mer för tillfället.
    Vill ju som sagt gärna få ut något av spelandet och inte bara förlora pengarna.

    Mvh Jens

    VIP: Hi Jens,
    >
    > Om du är lojal och fortsätter att spela kommer kryssningen bli din.
    >
    > Tävlingen är baserad på poäng, ju mer du spelar, desto fler poäng samlar du på dig för att vinna kryssningen.
    >
    > Om du fortsätter att spela på en bra nivå, kommer jag att se till att du åker på en kryssning.... du har mitt ord.
    >
    > Utan fler insättningar kommer det bli mycket svårt att vinna kryssningen.
    >
    > Simon Green
    > VIP Manager
    --------------------------------------------


    2nd Pic:

    VIP: Hej Jens,

    Du är med i dragningen för vår kryssning.

    Din tur kommer förändras bara om du spelar mer.

    Eftersom konkurrensen om kryssningen bara börjat, skulle du behöva spela mer att ha en bra chans.

    Valet är ditt. Jag kommer att titta på ditt konto och hjälpa till om jag att du spelar.

    Lycka till!

    Simon Green
    VIP Manager


    ME: Jag är lojal men sätter inte in mer pengar förens min otur vänt.
    När dras vinnaren av kryssningen?
    Är jag med i den utlottningen?
    -----------------------------------------------

    Last picture:

    VIP: Hej Jens,
    >
    > Kul att höra från dig.
    >
    > Ju mer du spelar, desto mer troligt är det att du kommer att vinna kryssningen.
    >
    > Om du väljer att göra fler insättningar och visar din lojalitet , kommer jag själv att skicka dig på en kryssning nästa månad.
    >
    > Du är välkommen att kontakta mig under tiden.
    >
    > Jag är alltid tillgänglig.
    >
    > Simon Green
    > VIP Manager.

    He mention this Cruise several times.. found a mail when he says: Du har fortfarande en stor chans att vinna kryssningen!

    Varje SEK du omsätter är ännu en poäng mot detta.

    Som jag har sagt ett par gånger förut, om du forsätter att spela och inte vinner kryssningen, kommer jag att ordna en till dig själv.

    Jag kommer att vara tillgänglig imorgon och kreditera en cashback på alla insättningar som jag ser idag.
    > VIP Manager
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jul 3, 2015
  35. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    Yes he says point are earned by playing, but points are earned for deposit, 1 ticket/500SEK except Saturdays then it doubles.
    He said "Varje SEK du omsätter är ännu en poäng mot detta." It means every SEK you you wager is even a point against it."
    Its different things.. no big deal but they should know their own rules
     
  36. Jul 3, 2015
  37. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight MM

    Occupation:
    Nothing much
    Location:
    PokieLand
    His role is only to push the players to deposit more...
    It's not a good practice though, I agree...

    Make sure to ALWAYS read the Terms for any promotion you'd like to compete in.
    And try to avoid the raffle promotions, especially if you don't trust the casino you're playing with.
     
  38. Jul 3, 2015
  39. Jensa

    Jensa Full Member

    Occupation:
    working :)
    Location:
    sweden
    Question is where the line are crossed or not, and the things hes been saying i feel he crossed it.

    And i still wonder about that "5 K rule"
    The casino cant give me more info and as i understand them they havnt done anything wrong according to them.
     

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