Do Casinos use Profiling Software?

nafanny29

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Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Location
London, England
I was wondering if any of the casinos use such a thing. Say to track their player database for the more astute players, or to reward comps based on expected loss rather than amounts wagered.

Obviously this would mainly apply to games such as VP or BJ where the skill of the gambler greatly effects the expected return.

Im sure casinos would prefer to offer loyalty bonuses to players who play badly, rather than experts, (like KK and many others here) who would take maximum benefit from them.
 

TheBloke

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Mar 9, 2005
Location
London
Whether they actually analyse the individual decisions made, I don't know. That may be difficult and time consuming. They could get a very similar result just by tracking their % profit by user. This doesn't work in the short term, but for long-term players it will give an accurate representation of how well they play.

But of course what casinos most want is simply long-term players, even if they play well, so my guess is that 90% of the decision (or 100% of the decision, 90% of the time) is simply based on how much you wager.

If you clearly wager a lot more than you need to for bonuses, or wager a lot with no bonuses, then you will be a profitable player for that casino regardless of how well you play, and they will offer you incentives to stay.
 

Simmo!

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
Interesting question. Good response too. It wouldn't surprise me...it happens in a lot of areas of business to assist marketing. Hell, look at your cookies folder :)

Profiling can come in several varieties, from simple tracking to detailed analysis. TheBloke is right in that in can be very time consuming - guess you have to balance the value of the end result against the cost. My guess would be the smaller independent casinos can keep track more easily and therefore probably do more of it. But to what extent? Who knows.
 

johnsteed

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Apr 24, 2005
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N/A
***

nafanny29

I was wondering if any of the casinos use such a thing. Say to track their player database for the more astute players, or to reward comps based on expected loss rather than amounts wagered.


That very thing has certainly dawned upon me at times. Whether it's true or not, I'll never know. I can think of my first couple experiences at UKCasinoClub, wherein I lost quite swiftly. After that, they kept sending me a bunch of other promos (match bonuses offers) within a very short time-frame, and from the time that I made good on one of those, that was the end of that. :( I exceeded their "database's expectation" of what I normally was supposed to do (that is: to lose swiftly and surely). Now, since I'd only played there on a couple occasions leading up to that, I would have to imagine (speculate actually) that they could have been gathering-up all of information of my across-the-boards results at all MG casinos (which was not good up to that point... actually, it still isn't very good, but better...:rolleyes: ).


Although this isn't what you're talking about (although it is about casinos "maybe" gathering information), a couple years back when a was pumping in the majority of my deposits into PlayTech casinos, literally each time I'd receive NeTeller funds (after making a wire transfer) I'd also receive tons of promos and (free) bonuses following it (the same hour of the same day). I could go a month without making any deposits (and in that time rarely have any casino emails sent to me), but the second my NeTeller funds show up in my Hotmail account, all the casinos adverts would show up following it. Not sure about the correlation, but sure seemed as if there was one. :what:


Again, all of this is far-fetched speculation on my part (but the idea of it has crossed my mind a number of times). If anything, interesting topic. :)
 
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
They do.

I am 99.999999999999999999% certain they do, but probably not to the extent of analysing each hand.
They know things like amount wagered, what games these were wagered on, and the throughput (deposits and withdrawals) related to the wagering. They can also find your maximum payouts, which can indicate the size of your bets. They can see whether players play a lot of slots, or prefer tables or VP.
Basic stats are probably generated automatically from combining the Playcheck and Cashcheck databases, They have bespoke queries that we don't have in our interface, such as to check we have wagered enough on a bonus.
Some E-mails I have received from VIP support at one or two MG casinos have shown up the depth of what can be lifted from this data. No doubt this assists in determining availability of promotions.

Casino Action admit to having a "bonus ratio", which increases with VIP level, and players who have deposited without bonuses will get more promotions till they go too far above this ratio.
If we, as players, knew exactly how they used this data, we might end up with an advantage over the marketing gurus as we would be able to avoid those nasty little traps that outfits such as Casino Rewards are so fond (locking reward accounts).
 

nafanny29

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Location
London, England
vinylweatherman said:
I am 99.999999999999999999% certain they do, but probably not to the extent of analysing each hand.
They know things like amount wagered, what games these were wagered on, and the throughput (deposits and withdrawals) related to the wagering. They can also find your maximum payouts, which can indicate the size of your bets. They can see whether players play a lot of slots, or prefer tables or VP.
Basic stats are probably generated automatically from combining the Playcheck and Cashcheck databases, They have bespoke queries that we don't have in our interface, such as to check we have wagered enough on a bonus.
Some E-mails I have received from VIP support at one or two MG casinos have shown up the depth of what can be lifted from this data. No doubt this assists in determining availability of promotions.

Casino Action admit to having a "bonus ratio", which increases with VIP level, and players who have deposited without bonuses will get more promotions till they go too far above this ratio.
If we, as players, knew exactly how they used this data, we might end up with an advantage over the marketing gurus as we would be able to avoid those nasty little traps that outfits such as Casino Rewards are so fond (locking reward accounts).


I tend to think they use our wagering data more than they let on for many of the reasons you suggest VWM. I know they reward good (ie profitable) players well because my GF is the worlds biggest gambler and the stuff she gets given is amazing. Intercasino made her a member of their platinum club and sent her Xmas and Birthday pressies that were worth getting. But she pays 10 times for em at the casino LOL and as much as I try theres no telling her to calm down LOLOLOL

BTW love your website, 10 yrs ago I was up and down the motorway network every night emptying those fruities:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
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