[discussion] limited bet sizes

Slottery

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It took till second page before "randomness" joined to thread :) I wouldn't just play slots or any other games at all if just always getting same bad feeling that somebody is not fair and try to take your money (of course they do by offering games where RTP is under 100%).

When the fun stops etc... If you looking financial investment or way to make money, these are one of worse investment. Maybe missed point but is only coming later after this "seeding" theory how casino cheated this time? If limiting bet size feels that winning is impossible (like all these any other reasons and theories) why on earth to spend any money to these? If can be winning player in landbased, would spend all my time and money there instead wasting all these deposits just to try to make point that winning from casinos is very rare and happen to very few in long run and only if you stop playing when you're winning.
 

Bloatgoat

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Sigh... @Halvor I'm going to ignore you. The casino themself provided me full documentation of how their system in a nutshell works. Seeding is a part of it. I think i understand now why inhouse games are unlimited and non-inhouse games are limited as it pretty much has everything todo with cashflow.

Following the exposed situation, regarding the behavior of the games, I inform that the generation of results in games of chance, xxx is based on a random number generator (GNA), as well as on relevant functionalities to support its activity (e.g., algorithm seed, mapping, shuffling), as provided for in applicable legislation.
 

Slottery

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Do you know what algorithm seeding actually is and what it's there for? Which part of game lobby some game is have nothing to do it, 5 point hint.
 

Halvor

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Sigh... @Halvor I'm going to ignore you. The casino themself provided me full documentation of how their system in a nutshell works. Seeding is a part of it. I think i understand now why inhouse games are unlimited and non-inhouse games are limited as it pretty much has everything todo with cashflow.
Well feel free to share this with the rest of us then,because it's simply bullshit. The only proof you have ever provided is your gut feeling.

Edit: after reading your post again, it's not just slots you do not understand. It's a complete lack of algorithm and maths.
 

Bloatgoat

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Could any moderator just lock this thread? I already had an answer to my initial question, but appearantly this has to lead to another rigged/not-rigged thread and personally people like halvor can suck it.
 

Halvor

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Could any moderator just lock this thread? I already had an answer to my initial question, but appearantly this has to lead to another rigged/not-rigged thread and personally people like halvor can suck it.
Stick with the porn industry.
 

bamberfishcake

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200 quid a spin

Only way to win a tenner on it.

Hilarious. Agree with Kroffe that i like it though - its a very well produced game i think.

This is interesting and from a casino so no secret it would seem but clearly not as simple as just RNG.

Following the exposed situation, regarding the behavior of the games, I inform that the generation of results in games of chance, xxx is based on a random number generator (GNA), as well as on relevant functionalities to support its activity (e.g., algorithm seed, mapping, shuffling), as provided for in applicable legislation.
Any techies know what this actually means and could explain to a dumbo or would my feeble mind explode?
 

pinnit2014

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Hilarious. Agree with Kroffe that i like it though - its a very well produced game i think.

This is interesting and from a casino so no secret it would seem but clearly not as simple as just RNG.


Any techies know what this actually means and could explain to a dumbo or would my feeble mind explode?

I quite like it as well - if it's running well, it can be an enjoyable session but there's just zero chance of hitting anything decent. If they could just add some win potential to the maths of the game I'd probably play it
 

Slottery

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Hilarious. Agree with Kroffe that i like it though - its a very well produced game i think.

This is interesting and from a casino so no secret it would seem but clearly not as simple as just RNG.


Any techies know what this actually means and could explain to a dumbo or would my feeble mind explode?

Think these been discussed in some threads, Wikepia and many other sources depend how much in detail willing to go, gives some quite simple explanations.

Pseudo Random Number Generator:

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"Random" Seed:
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Good statistical properties are a central requirement for the output of a PRNG. In general, careful mathematical analysis is required to have any confidence that a PRNG generates numbers that are sufficiently close to random to suit the intended use.
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cautioned about the misinterpretation of a PRNG as a truly random generator, and joked that "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin."
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Bloatgoat

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This is interesting and from a casino so no secret it would seem but clearly not as simple as just RNG.
Any techies know what this actually means and could explain to a dumbo or would my feeble mind explode?

Here's some more for you:

The GNAs used by XXX, are recognized as a cryptographically safe source for generating random numbers and are subject to a "battery" of statistical tests: DIEHARD test suite (Marsaglia); Set of Statistical Tests from NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) or a set of similar tests at the same level. The tests are performed with a set of data that are considered by the OCR as a guarantee to guarantee valid statistical results.

I dont doubt the random/genuine-ness from that casino, i mean, they paid me out 65k previous year. The initial question was just not about this all; this is what they supplied me when i questioned why the limited bets all over where into place. That was their answer.

So yeah in a way the game could still be just as random as with uncorked bets or play as it was intended, but i know there's a difference in between both games (capped and uncapped) on 3 different casino's. They send me a link as well in PDF completely narrowing down the workings of online slotting sort of say. But mind you it's in portugese, and translation does work difficult straight from a PDF file.

Bottom line: they refer to a goverment website where all this info is publicly available. And a list of actual casino's with a license. So when i verified the other listed casino's, they are a exception compared to the rest offering the same games but without a limited betsize.

So again; i dispute the given argument of the casino, if at one point they state "We limit the bets for players safety" and still offer inhouse games such as RTP based roulette / blackjack and quite a few other games with up to 2500 bets a spin. It seems to me that every non-in-house game has a limit on bets and the games that do run inhouse are'nt.

Kind of contradictory. I've send them an email to cancel my account with my reasons to it. And perhaps later again i'll re-open it. The best way to vote is with your wallet.
 

Halvor

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Think these been discussed in some threads, Wikepia and many other sources depend how much in detail willing to go, gives some quite simple explanations.

Pseudo Random Number Generator:

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"Random" Seed:
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And to state the obvious, what tab the casino put the game in, what time of the day you play it, what you ate for breakfast, if your right or left hand and whatnot is NOT part of any RNG.
 

Kroffe

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And to state the obvious, what tab the casino put the game in, what time of the day you play it, what you ate for breakfast, if your right or left hand and whatnot is NOT part of any RNG.
Thats just propaganda from the Kellogs-mafia.
Obviously Lucky charms will make you luckier, otherwise they would be called normal charms.
 

Reelsoffun

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Shame really, because i kind of like the bonus on that game.
Jumping around that gameboard having a couple minifeatures in a bonus etc.
Just no potential to be found =(

Yes it badly needed to be a 720 way game they proper fucked up on that game design for higher rollers, but probably does great from casual players, so i'm guessing that was the plan all along and the market they were targeting for that particular game.

Remember providers have to provide games for all market players from the casual, mid way and hard core players.
 

brianmon

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That 111,111 stake is a one out of a billion spins tho. Ive checked various (table/card) games, there's no such thing as a bet limit on those games. If i wanted to play bj for 2500 a hand it's possible.

So who in their right mind believes that lowering slot-bets is for the protection of players. I could blast 2500 a hand easily on RTP based blackjack. Funny notice: the "fiches" on demo mode is up to 50, where real mode offers up to 500. I mean, come'on.
Don't forget that billion spins is made up from ALL casinos and ALL players combined. It's not down to each casino.
It probably doesn't take as long as we might think for DOAII to reach a billion spins, overall, on NetEnt's servers

Plus the figure of 111,111x stake in a billion spins is just an average. It doesn't actually mean it would only pay the maximum after a billion spins. It could pay it 3 times in that billion spins (or even more) or might not pay it until the next billion.

What if it happened twice at the same casino? That would be almost €4,000,000 at max bet.
There are only so many casinos who could afford wins like that.

Even at €9 a spin. the maximum win would be €1,000,000
 

Bloatgoat

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Casino's must have the financial backbone in order to obtain and hold a license in the first place. They stayed true and did'nt boot me out when i withdrawled 65k. Service wise i have zero complaints really, it's just the shift that's obvious for me at the moment and that i dont like to be a part of anymore.

I mean we play at a gambling establishment. We can win. And we can win depending on the stakes we put on the table, dont we. Then dont silly out and limit bets or have caps or any of that.
 

bamberfishcake

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All valid points i think, even Kroffes about lucky charms.

Thanks for helping me understand a little more all.

Agree )speculatively of course not knowing that much about this kind of thing) that its probably not for the safety of the player but its a funny old industry looking from the outside in, every opportunity to be 'seen' to be doing the right thing is taken and you would expect these businesses to quite often bang the 'looking out for our customers drum' at every opportunity as a 'go to' response.

It probably is more to do with liability i would guess and i expect these businesses to carry some financial weight for any eventuality so trimming opportunity from certain games would counter that necessity. It seems the bigger the player the bigger the selection of slots to me also now i think of it. Never really considered the max bet size.
 

brianmon

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Casino's must have the financial backbone in order to obtain and hold a license in the first place. They stayed true and did'nt boot me out when i withdrawled 65k. Service wise i have zero complaints really, it's just the shift that's obvious for me at the moment and that i dont like to be a part of anymore.

I mean we play at a gambling establishment. We can win. And we can win depending on the stakes we put on the table, dont we. Then dont silly out and limit bets or have caps or any of that.
65k is a long way off the 2 million it would cost for a max win, at max stake on DOAII.

I think VideoSlots was the first to be hit by a huge win, although it wasn't the max win.
They probably thought it wouldn't happen to them, and all the 'potential' was as hypothetical as a lot of other slots.
But they soon dropped the max bet size afterwards, and so did a lot of other casinos, when they saw that the potential was real
 

Bloatgoat

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The 65k was'nt from a single win, but a repeated bonus buying for 3 straight days untill i peaked at 70k or so. I withdrawled 65k scared shitless because i was under the assumption that this might be a withdrawl on which your account could be booted for. But again they kept their word and their service is a grade.

But yep; the limiting of betsize is real. When i tried another casino and finally had 24 spins on extra chilli on a 2k buy, i saw the potential this game really CAN have, rather then sticking on a limited buy of just 500 a time. My best win on Chilli was over 23k or so. Or a base game hit of 6k....

I mean make the moon shine and ill do magic.
 

bamberfishcake

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The 65k was'nt from a single win, but a repeated bonus buying for 3 straight days untill i peaked at 70k or so. I withdrawled 65k scared shitless because i was under the assumption that this might be a withdrawl on which your account could be booted for. But again they kept their word and their service is a grade.

But yep; the limiting of betsize is real. When i tried another casino and finally had 24 spins on extra chilli on a 2k buy, i saw the potential this game really CAN have, rather then sticking on a limited buy of just 500 a time. My best win on Chilli was over 23k or so. Or a base game hit of 6k....

I mean make the moon shine and ill do magic.

A little disappointed i cant bonus buy. I would have tried now and again i think. I hear White Rabbit was decent.
 

Bloatgoat

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Yes, the UK and some other country's have bonus buying banned. But not in europe. Personally i think it should be just there, at least i dont have the patience to go through 400 spins before something even hitting. But the UK has always bin a problem country in relation to gambling. The amount of bookies on certain area's and the rise of a shitload of problem gamblers is just stunning. I understand the decision of the goverment banning bonus buys and limit games of up to 2 pound a spin.
 

brianmon

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A little disappointed i cant bonus buy. I would have tried now and again i think. I hear White Rabbit was decent.
You could always try it at the BTG site. Demo only (obviously). But at least you'll see what you're missing, or have been saved from (depending on which way your balance goes)
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pinnit2014

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A little disappointed i cant bonus buy. I would have tried now and again i think. I hear White Rabbit was decent.

That was one of the few games i liked a bonus buy. It wasn't as harsh in, if not playing THAT well, giving you under 50% of your stake back so you could normally have a good run of BB's on it. The rest i wouldn't bother both - like Extra Chilli which frequently fell on it's arse for me.

Removing the BB for WR means i don't play the game anymore as it's a brutal to bonus on, with there being literally no point in the base game.
 

Bloatgoat

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It suprises me that providers did'nt come up with something to make the base game more feasable rather then maintaining the same harshness the hell bonus buying can do to your budget.
 
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