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deucebag VS RedRabbit Casino

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by deucebag, Sep 26, 2012.

    Sep 26, 2012
  1. deucebag

    deucebag Experienced Member PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    cyberspace
    Took their first deposit bonus, played Aces & Faces video poker, and lost. Took their second deposit bonus, played Aces & Faces video poker, and won. But no, they confiscate my money. Reason: I played Aces & Faces Video Poker. They claim this was restricted through their terms and conditions:

    Turnover/play on all Classic Blackjack variations, all versions of Atlantic City Blackjack, all versions of Vegas Downtown Blackjack, all versions of Vegas Single Deck Blackjack and all Vegas Strip variations, all Aces Video/Power Pokers, Jacks or Better Video/Power Pokers, all Baccarats, all Craps, Red Dog, Sic Bo, all Progressive Games and all 3 card poker games, do not count towards the turnover requirement for this bonus.

    Fair or not? I think the only reasonable interpretation of those terms is that "All Aces" video poker, and "Jacks or Better" video poker, are restricted, but other video poker games are allowed. The clue here is apparently the small "a" in "all". I have never heard of a category of games called "Aces video poker" before, so it never occured to me that it meant to include all the video poker games that have "Aces" somewhere their name.

    Interestingly, they say "We trust that you did not want to abuse our bonus offer on purpose, and you will be granted bonus for your future play if you wish so".

    So they don't think I was abusing their bonus, but they still confiscate my winnings simply because they can. So much for the theory that casinos will only invoke such "gotcha" terms for fraudsters/abusers. They were happy to take my first deposit loss, even though I played Aces & Faces.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  2. Sep 26, 2012
  3. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    .

    I am not familiar with this casino. Took a quick look and was a bit surprised to see it was a Microgaming casino.

    Anyway. The rule you are referring to does not say anything about restricted games in my opinion. It only says that if you play any of these games, then your play do not count towards the turnover requirement (although you are free to play them if you wish).

    So my opinion is that the casino can not confiscate your winnings based on the rule you mentioned (I am not familiar with other rules they may have).
     
  4. Sep 26, 2012
  5. deucebag

    deucebag Experienced Member PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    cyberspace
    A little further down in their terms they state:

    Note: If you play on the excluded games (0%) before meeting the playthrough requirements, then you agree that the casino holds the right to void any winnings and bonuses, at our discretion.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Sep 26, 2012
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    More bullshit. They screwed up, and are now trying to claim that the words "all Aces" now has a different meaning to that intended when they made the terms. They banned the two variants "All Aces" and "Jacks or Better", but they are now using "spirit of the bonus" because you simply found the next best VP in the line that they had not yet banned. You also got it wrong, it's 4-UP Deuces Wild, not Aces and Faces:p

    I bet we will see those terms updated soon with Aces and Faces included. When they do, clobber them with a "retrospective application of terms" complaint.

    If they are MGS, how come I have not heard of them, especially if they have the fruities;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Sep 26, 2012
  9. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    deucebag: Thanks for additional info about their rules. Then the case is a bit different then what I though based on your original post yes hehe
     
  10. Sep 26, 2012
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's not true MGS, but another of those Quickfire type multi-vendor platforms that carry games from different providers. This one claims it is a new concept, but it has been beaten to it by others. They boast a seamless integrated bonus management policy over all products.

    They have a couple of "interesting" rules too;)
     
  12. Sep 26, 2012
  13. deucebag

    deucebag Experienced Member PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    cyberspace
    Thanks for your support. Video poker games only counted 5% against the wagering requirement (aside from the 0% ones), so I didn't exactly choose the game for "easy" playthrough.
     
  14. Sep 26, 2012
  15. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
  16. Sep 26, 2012
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's quite a WR, but they do have those "spirit of the bonus" type terms, so I expect this is what they are really using, but are trying to pretend it is a simple case of playing an excluded game. Playing a 5% weighted game is not against the terms, so they are going to have to come up with another excuse. They ban Blackjack completely, so why not a straight forward ban on all Video Pokers, or even say "slots only" as many casinos now do (watch out for the excluded slots though, even slots players are not safe now).
     
  18. Sep 26, 2012
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    It's got nothing to do with spirit of the bonus.

    It is a clear case of the casino f**king up by not including aces and faces in their banned list, and trying to pull the wool by insisting that by "all Aces video poker" they meant all video poker's with the word "ace" in them, and not just "All Aces" like any intelligent and logical person reading it would think.

    Refusing winnings based on the capitalization of one letter smacks of amateur hour. Operators who pull stunts like this need to be called out and put up to the membership and others reading as an example of a casino to avoid like dodgy clams........and the best way to do that is to get them rogued, and the best way to do that is to PAB.

    At best it is a case of ambiguous terms being applied unfairly.

    At worst it is a case of deliberate theft of legitimate winnings....the operator equivalent of a "fraudster".

    Stop posting deucebag and PAB.
     
    10 people like this.
  20. Sep 30, 2012
  21. deucebag

    deucebag Experienced Member PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    cyberspace
    They're not accredited and I've PAB'ed before, so I don't think that's an option. I've sent the Casinomeister a PM notifying him of this thread, to see if they can be considered for the rogue pit. Players should be warned of playing there IMO.
     
  22. Sep 30, 2012
  23. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    It's obvious that they were talking about the game All Aces, just like they were talking about the game Jacks or Better. The wording is the exact same. I sincerely hope that the lack of capitalisation won't cost you €1600.
     
  24. Sep 30, 2012
  25. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    I've seen them make exceptions to that policy before. Hopefully they will do it again in this case. Good luck.
     
  26. Oct 1, 2012
  27. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    The casino is saying that Aces and Faces VP is restricted.
    But, when I read the T&C there is no mention of Aces and Faces being restricted.
    The casino is saying that what they are calling "...all Aces Video/Power Pokers" actually means or includes the VP called Aces and Faces.
    That's not clear by anyone’s understanding.

    I think OP has a case.
     
  28. Oct 16, 2012
  29. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Any news on this? Was OP allowed to PAB?
     
  30. Oct 17, 2012
  31. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    I got bit upset to see this. I found this casino to look like a new great one. I am in contact with their affiliate manager to start promoting their casino. I found their live chat support to be brilliant. And gave very good service on several occasions. When trying them out.
    Not managed a withdrawal there from the tests I made.

    I have contacted the affiliate manager to get someone to attend this thread. As OP clearly should be paid his winnings.
    Before this case has been settled I will not touch them with a finger. :(

    I really hope OP get his winnings. :thumbsup:
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Oct 17, 2012
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What, no more barge poles left:what:

    Better have a review of who else you might be thinking of promoting:D
     
  34. Oct 17, 2012
  35. deucebag

    deucebag Experienced Member PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    cyberspace
    No news. I haven't received a reply from my PM to the Casinomeister. I know he's been traveling so I'll give it another go. I don't expect to be allowed to PAB, but I'd like to know if they can be considered for the rogue pit.
     
  36. Oct 18, 2012
  37. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Well I've only just heard of this. Bryan is on the road, as mentioned, but I'm the PAB guy and I say go for it (check your PMs for further options). :thumbsup:

    Remember though, read that Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. [​IMG]
     
  38. Oct 18, 2012
  39. PaaskeDenmark

    PaaskeDenmark Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    :p Yes not good. I just like to try out new casinos. And not a problem to give players a chance if they have a no deposit. I would not recommend anyone to play at a casino unless they are safe. Mainly accredited here at casinomeister.
    But if new and still not listed at casinomeister, then will warn players that it being tested :thumbsup:

    Byt the way. not heard anything back from my affiliate manager contact. So this is not good :oops:
     

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