Depositing before verification complete?

flyingguy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
London
What's the ukgc guidelines around allowing deposits before a casino has verified you? I joined up with a casino today I had no recollection of joining, submitted my documents as I always do on live chat and to my surprise was able to deposit. Happy days I thought, they've verified my quickly. Lost about £50 so not life changing sums of money, but I then got an email tonight saying I've got another account that was excluded (which I used to do back in the day when I'd had enough of a casino). I could have deposited thousands though in a day! I thought all casinos had to verify you first to prevent this happening? Should they be returning my deposit? I'm not bothered about the money per say, just the principal of it. Have to add they are a well established sportsbook who previously had their license suspended for major fraud and other issues...I discovered this afterwards I should add.
Thanks all!
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
Had the same problem at unibet, happy to take deposits ( quite a few) then suddenly locking the account
due to having self excluded at 32 red years ago.Dont think any casinos I have joined this year have blocked
deposits prior to verification.
Really should be a requirement for verification and SE checks to be completed before allowing play,no one
wants it but its better having the account blocked after losing cash bearing in mind you would be unlikely
to be paid if you won and would be lucky to get deposits refunded (unibet assured me I would have be
paid if i had won, no mention of refunding deposits).
 

ESCJAMIE

Love is Love #BLM #Transrights
MM
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Location
Dudley
What's the ukgc guidelines around allowing deposits before a casino has verified you? I joined up with a casino today I had no recollection of joining, submitted my documents as I always do on live chat and to my surprise was able to deposit. Happy days I thought, they've verified my quickly. Lost about £50 so not life changing sums of money, but I then got an email tonight saying I've got another account that was excluded (which I used to do back in the day when I'd had enough of a casino). I could have deposited thousands though in a day! I thought all casinos had to verify you first to prevent this happening? Should they be returning my deposit? I'm not bothered about the money per say, just the principal of it. Have to add they are a well established sportsbook who previously had their license suspended for major fraud and other issues...I discovered this afterwards I should add.
Thanks all!
What I do is, When there is casino which I have not been on for ages/ Have no idea if I ever made an account before, Is go to live chat give them name dob address ect and 1 mintue later I know if I have an account, its saves this from happening.

If you signed up using same DOB name and/or address the system normally should stop you from registering.
When signing up did you change anything or put anything different from before?

You should be able to reclaim your money I would think Good luck !
 

flyingguy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
London
Well that's the thing, I can't remember when I signed up and I've moved a lot in the past few years, as well as have a new email address as my old one just got full of spam. I used to do what others suggested, straight on live chat, ask if I already have an account, job done. But since the majority of casinos verify you when you register before depositing I stopped doing that, hence my question about what the rules are? On most casinos I've joined over the past few months or so, they all say due to ukgc rules documents have to be verified before a player can deposit, and as frustrating as it can be with some taking days to verify, at least you can avoid this kind of situation.
 

Mark_32Red

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
32Red Marketing Dpt
What's the ukgc guidelines around allowing deposits before a casino has verified you? I joined up with a casino today I had no recollection of joining, submitted my documents as I always do on live chat and to my surprise was able to deposit. Happy days I thought, they've verified my quickly. Lost about £50 so not life changing sums of money, but I then got an email tonight saying I've got another account that was excluded (which I used to do back in the day when I'd had enough of a casino). I could have deposited thousands though in a day! I thought all casinos had to verify you first to prevent this happening? Should they be returning my deposit? I'm not bothered about the money per say, just the principal of it. Have to add they are a well established sportsbook who previously had their license suspended for major fraud and other issues...I discovered this afterwards I should add.
Thanks all!

Good morning FG!

Without knowing the casino and their approval processes, I don’t know for sure, but my educated guess is as follows:

When you’ve joined the casino, an automated check was carried out via Experian or similar. This is the UKGC check you mention, to ensure you are of legal age to play. They will use your DOB, Current Address etc to validate you are on the electoral roll or other databases where they can verify your age.

You have then submitted your documents for further review, this is usually a manual process which takes a bit more time but a human being will usually review your docs, look for linked accounts (which isn’t always possible to automate when addresses and email addresses have changed) and I’m guessing this is where your SE was picked up.

What happens next depends on policies and how the company is structured.

It is possible that although the other casino is part of the same group, they operate on a different licence and therefore “global” SE isn’t actually a regulatory requirement (although many, including Kindred) made the decision to retrospectively apply SE across licences (as Shadow123 mentions above).

I would suggest if it is the same licence and this was a genuine mishap (not an attempt to breach SE by changing parts of the address etc) then I would say your entitled to a refund. If different licence then that’s down to the casino.

Hope that helps!
Mark
 

flyingguy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
London
Good morning FG!

Without knowing the casino and their approval processes, I don’t know for sure, but my educated guess is as follows:

When you’ve joined the casino, an automated check was carried out via Experian or similar. This is the UKGC check you mention, to ensure you are of legal age to play. They will use your DOB, Current Address etc to validate you are on the electoral roll or other databases where they can verify your age.

You have then submitted your documents for further review, this is usually a manual process which takes a bit more time but a human being will usually review your docs, look for linked accounts (which isn’t always possible to automate when addresses and email addresses have changed) and I’m guessing this is where your SE was picked up.

What happens next depends on policies and how the company is structured.

It is possible that although the other casino is part of the same group, they operate on a different licence and therefore “global” SE isn’t actually a regulatory requirement (although many, including Kindred) made the decision to retrospectively apply SE across licences (as Shadow123 mentions above).

I would suggest if it is the same licence and this was a genuine mishap (not an attempt to breach SE by changing parts of the address etc) then I would say your entitled to a refund. If different licence then that’s down to the casino.

Hope that helps!
Mark

Thanks Mark, it's the same casino, they only have one on their license, and it's Matchbook. My details have changed slightly as life changes too, i.e. moved house, new email address etc. but name and DOB haven't changed. I have sent an email to their support querying the issue so will wait to see what their response is. I suspect they will accuse me of trying to circumvent the SE as they can then refuse to refund me.

I'm hoping that as it was only £50 they might just refund it rather than risk further bother, especially considering the trouble they were in. Good job I didn't sink any more money there!
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
I assume @Mark_32Red is exactly correct. If your address, email and phone number have changed (same phone number or email shouldn't be accepted by any platform, it's not anyhow ok that email sent to you would also go to another person and same with possible phone call). Only name and DOB can get through most of e-verification tools. Many casinos also for UK have extended these verifications compare details through two different plades to make it even more accurate when your details are matching from both of them.

I would assume that most of these e-verification services don't recognize only name and DOB match but human eye can more easily match different details.
 

L&L-Jan

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Location
Malta
Experian picks up changes pretty fast. E.g. when you move, you would require some internet and/or utilities which is fairly quick picked up by them.
 

flyingguy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
London
Appreciate all the responses, but what I am trying to clarify is whether they are supposed to verify me prior to allowing me to deposit?
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
I don't know if they're obliged by the UKGC to verify players' accounts prior to allowing deposits or not, I suspect there's no blanket approach to it yet, but rather, done on an individual casino-by-casino basis.

I've seen one casino request I KYC before launching my maiden spin, and that's been the exception, rather than the rule from the dozens I've joined since
 

flyingguy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
London
I don't know if they're obliged by the UKGC to verify players' accounts prior to allowing deposits or not, I suspect there's no blanket approach to it yet, but rather, done on an individual casino-by-casino basis.

I've seen one casino request I KYC before launching my maiden spin, and that's been the exception, rather than the rule from the dozens I've joined since
My recent experience of all UK casinos now is they need to complete verification before you can deposit?
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
My recent experience of all UK casinos now is they need to complete verification before you can deposit?
Perhaps things have changed at a brisk pace recently. All I can recount from my (fairly) recent experiences are that depositing and playing was not held up by any type of verification procedure, most certainly from being electronically verified - as that's all the verification anyone needs anyway.

Others that ask for documentation off me, especially having been previously verified, get short shrift
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Appreciate all the responses, but what I am trying to clarify is whether they are supposed to verify me prior to allowing me to deposit?

Yes, like Mark mentioned earlier, this is pretty much what UKGC in practice expect casinos to do:

When you’ve joined the casino, an automated check was carried out via Experian or similar. This is the UKGC check you mention, to ensure you are of legal age to play. They will use your DOB, Current Address etc to validate you are on the electoral roll or other databases where they can verify your age.

If you now registered with details where your name, address, DOB are matching to details in databases which are used to these checks (accepted to be official and trusted enough to be used in these purposes). Unfortunately it don't recognize your details if you have moved address and like said earlier, also your email and phone number should have changed as two players should not have same personal contact details for obvious reasons.

Payment methods do get verified only after these are used, before deposit there's nothing to verify. It would need quite a big changes to current platforms from casinos and payment solution to make also payment methods verified prior to deposit one by one and new one couldn't be used before verified (not sure if anyone want to go to this as getting payment method verified is probably easiest one as long it's yours and not have other name(s) in it).

edit: Casinos are anyway quite fast asking you to provide documents as well as this electronic verification only confirm that person with this name, DOB and address exist and when that's enough, impersonating risk is higher as many can quite easily know these details from many people. One reason also why casinos want these lovely selfies and other things in verification which can little bit reduce risk of someone impersonating identities.
 
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