Depositing at Videoslots again, because at least it works

[Jono777]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

 

[paul7388]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

Think I've said it before Jon but will say it again.

You know like yourself I'm a small depositer compared to years ago. But to be honest i get a fair bit of luck and and normally playtime. Would even guess I am actually up on slots this year.

But big difference is I rarely ever play at VS anymore. I know you are loyal I just cannot understand why. I know it used to be for the battles and the wheels etc. But those days are gone. Why anyone would actually put themselves throught playing the pointless battles I will never know.

Just with the amount of sites available I cannot understand why you keep playing at a site that is so unlucky.

Also to be honest I rarely ever played DOA as I found it boring as hell even with autoplay and it just took my money slowly. Was never a lucky slot for me and the thought of playing it at a reduced RTP would never enter my mind. I know you have had luck before but like you say its a different slot nowadays.

All just makes me wonder why if you want playtime you keep going back to one of the most boring slots out. I know you low roll like me but there are plenty of 10p slots to choose. I actually play Diamond MIne Megaways 2 a lot at 10p and quite often get good play and profit from it. Yeah I also get times where I deposit and lose with in minutes with dead spin after another. But the good sessions balance the bad.

Anyway none of my business i just feel if you changed casino and especially slot you might get a change of luck or at least more playtime.

 

[Jono777]

Don't stick to VS for battles or wheels mate, although you're right to a point, these were 90% of the reasons I USED to stick to it.

Guess I've kind of found myself institutionalized really, although I don't change due to worrying (probably needlessly with the size and frequency of my deposits lol ) about KYC / Sow / Not being paid out etc.

I'd happily move my budget to L&L or similar, maybe Mark's Lottomart but again, I stress about what I mention above where *touch wood* VS seems to be happy with the way I manage and use my account.

"The one with the numbers" from the videos I watch REALLY seems to offer the play session of "yesteryear" as I miss and crave but no way on this planet am I getting into the Crypto nonsense or VPN's etc etc lol

 

[geordiecolin]

Think I've said it before Jon but will say it again.

You know like yourself I'm a small depositer compared to years ago. But to be honest i get a fair bit of luck and and normally playtime. Would even guess I am actually up on slots this year.

But big difference is I rarely ever play at VS anymore. I know you are loyal I just cannot understand why. I know it used to be for the battles and the wheels etc. But those days are gone. Why anyone would actually put themselves throught playing the pointless battles I will never know.

Just with the amount of sites available I cannot understand why you keep playing at a site that is so unlucky.

Also to be honest I rarely ever played DOA as I found it boring as hell even with autoplay and it just took my money slowly. Was never a lucky slot for me and the thought of playing it at a reduced RTP would never enter my mind. I know you have had luck before but like you say its a different slot nowadays.

All just makes me wonder why if you want playtime you keep going back to one of the most boring slots out. I know you low roll like me but there are plenty of 10p slots to choose. I actually play Diamond MIne Megaways 2 a lot at 10p and quite often get good play and profit from it. Yeah I also get times where I deposit and lose with in minutes with dead spin after another. But the good sessions balance the bad.

Anyway none of my business i just feel if you changed casino and especially slot you might get a change of luck or at least more playtime.

Hey Paul I am one of those who thinks that loyalty to a few casinos reduces your losses as the laws of balance -and RTP- means that over an extended time you get back a large % of what you put in.

I spent a few years as a Meister Minion trying out all of the recommended sites from here plus those going through the fire thing and I had never witnessed such yearly losses due to spreading my bets too thinly.

And Jono I just blew very quickly another £50 in DOA2 on 18p spins with just 2 bonus rounds but I consider it an investment for next time despite the random bollix

 

[paul7388]

Hey Paul I am one of those who thinks that loyalty to a few casinos reduces your losses as the laws of balance -and RTP- means that over an extended time you get back a large % of what you put in.

I spent a few years as a Meister Minion trying out all of the recommended sites from here plus those going through the fire thing and I had never witnessed such yearly losses due to spreading my bets too thinly.

Yeah Geordie I tend to agree with you.

I only play at a handful of casinos myself. And that's the bookies sites and mainly Paddy Power and Bet365. Apart from them the only other casino is Lottomart.

And from that selection I do okay. My point was more tho that if one of those sites I never got luck and kept losing nearly every time I would eventually stop playing there and stick to the others.

Never really played at any of the sites from here or any of the baptism ones. Only really ever played Lottomart, Guts and Videoslots from here.

Just never going to play at casinos that want copies of cards , bank statements and all that garbage where the casinos I play don't ask for it as of yet.

I know people say you should always play at casinos that are accredited here as safe choices. But they are only safe till something goes wrong. Saw way to many accredited casinos on here suddenly go wrong leaving players screwed. I would rather win well at a bookies site knowing I should get paid rather than take the chances of a good win and all the garbage that follows at some of the accredited casinos.

 

[geordiecolin]

Yeah Geordie I tend to agree with you.

I only play at a handful of casinos myself. And that's the bookies sites and mainly Paddy Power and Bet365. Apart from them the only other casino is Lottomart.

And from that selection I do okay. My point was more tho that if one of those sites I never got luck and kept losing nearly every time I would eventually stop playing there and stick to the others.

Never really played at any of the sites from here or any of the baptism ones. Only really ever played Lottomart, Guts and Videoslots from here.

Just never going to play at casinos that want copies of cards , bank statements and all that garbage where the casinos I play don't ask for it as of yet.

I know people say you should always play at casinos that are accredited here as safe choices. But they are only safe till something goes wrong. Saw way to many accredited casinos on here suddenly go wrong leaving players screwed. I would rather win well at a bookies site knowing I should get paid rather than take the chances of a good win and all the garbage that follows at some of the accredited casinos.

The trouble with so many casino's wishing to go through the baptism of fire in here was/is their want to gain credibility because that has to be worth some to them.
I have reduced my bookie slot betting to PP only. Is Guts still going in the UK?
I have left casino's - goatwack will insist that it should be casinos I'm sure- due to their intrusiveness. But to be fair its our governments,and their insistence of controlling everything that dictates who gets to have a slice of the pie in UK online gambling.

 

[geordiecolin]

Don't stick to VS for battles or wheels mate, although you're right to a point, these were 90% of the reasons I USED to stick to it.

Guess I've kind of found myself institutionalized really, although I don't change due to worrying (probably needlessly with the size and frequency of my deposits lol ) about KYC / Sow / Not being paid out etc.

I'd happily move my budget to L&L or similar, maybe Mark's Lottomart but again, I stress about what I mention above where *touch wood* VS seems to be happy with the way I manage and use my account.

"The one with the numbers" from the videos I watch REALLY seems to offer the play session of "yesteryear" as I miss and crave but no way on this planet am I getting into the Crypto nonsense or VPN's etc etc lol

I am one of those old fashioned types too. Nothing must be worse that making a deposit with a large account in crypto only to find once you have finished your casino session that your nice account has crashed to nothing.
I did try to invest in crypto a few years back but the hoops I understood prevented me doing so. I'm so happy that I didn't invest.
I prefer having quite a lot of of money at home in cash. Shit use for online gambling

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just a footnote on the 'lucky casino' thing. Back in the days of the MG Viper Client I had casinos I felt were more lucky than others. The prevailing wisdom at the time was that all MG Viper casinos were just branded frontends for the same backend. Indeed if you looked at the install folder on your PC/laptop (and found the hidden MGS folder), you could see all the common files in there, and then an extra folder for each of the casino frontends with their own little intros and stuff, but basically it was all common resources. However the real meat and two veg of course, is server side.

There was talk here at CM about some casinos being 'better' than others, some would allegedly do things on the games that the others wouldn't, and so on. I too gravitated to some more than others, and thought some were luckier than others, even though logically I knew it made no difference.

Anyway fast forward a few years from then (although still a few years ago now) and I happened to be chatting to an ex-engineer from MG (MG/Derivco being headquartered on the IOM of course, and they have a lot of employees, past and present). I took the opportunity to ask him about the old Viper client system (retired by this point) and I found out a few interesting details from a tech nerd perspective - (some of the stuff that thing was running on at the backend was really old (but reliable) tech!) - but the main thing was how the various casinos worked.

And yes, absolutely everything went to the same backends and server/RNG calls, the casinos had no say over anything, there was no such thing as a 'lucky' casino in terms of any difference in how they got their results for the player or choices the casino could make, it made no difference if you were on a bonus or not with WR, or anything else, sure you might personally be luckier at some than others, but in terms of the games themselves, any casino that was running any MG game was absolutely identical in every way.

Now, here in the year 2024 we know for an absolute fact that there are multiple versions of the same games knocking around, most obviously in games existing in multiple RTP variations (something MG never had back in the day, they were all the same), a 94% PnG game is not pulling from the same pool of results as a 96% PnG game. Does that extend out to other choices? Can VS choose a different version of a 94% slot to another casino running ostensibly the same 94% slot? Bonanza is floating around on multiple revisions at any given time, at least as far as what is reported at the client level, even at the same RTP.

For me personally it doesn't make any sense for a provider to try and maintain multiple code branches for the same game, that's a lot of extra effort for no real reward, sure they need to when it comes to the different RTP choices (NLC for example do 92/94/96 now), but to further sub-divide that out into more variations, I can't see happening - but I could be wrong.

There's no harm in deciding that a certain casino is lucky or unlucky for you, and choosing to play or not play somewhere on that basis. Making that choice is, at worse, a neutral decision.

That said I don't think there's any concept of needing a large sample of spins at a casino to start to see RTP level out or anything like that, and I don't think flitting around a load of different casinos is any different to hammering away at the same one. Random numbers don't care about where you're generating them from, or how many you've generated so far. Do one billion spins at a billion different casinos, with just a single spin at each, or one billion spins at the same casino - and your end result would be the same, you'll have lost the house edge within the margin of error.

I signed up at GUTS when they were the new thing here at CM, took the full SUB, hit a near max win on MG's Hitman within a couple of hundred spins, forfeited the rest of the bonus, cashed out a juicy profit, and for no particular reason never played there ever again, my RTP there must have been like 2000% or something.

For me RTP is king, it's the single more important factor when choosing a game to play, I think it's commonly accepted wisdom now that 94% is a VERY different proposition to 96% for the player (I remember a few folks arguing otherwise when the drops in RTP started happening!), personally I stick to 95% or higher, if I see 94.xx or lower on the RTP screen, then it's a big no for me.

If there comes a point when VS start stripping out the older, higher RTP games from their books and there's only 94.xx stuff left to play, then I'll find myself something else to do with the time and money I currently spend on slotting.

 

[dunover]

It is difficult to explain over "Text Talk" and we could bat this ball back and forth, well forever lol....

A small example using my (once) love (now) hate relationship with DoA....

Hypothetical situation (similar to your skew the numbers example)

10 x £20 deposits, all last 1/2 to one hour game time and end in a bust out.

11th deposit of the same amount, I hit a wild line. win almost £200 and withdraw.

Ok so now I am comfortably over 90% RTP BUT....

The way the first 10 deposits were destroyed is my main gripe and it happens more and more. All I want is entertainment, game time and as mentioned before a bit of value for a deposit, not every time of course but certainly once in a while (say as low as 1 in 4/5 deposits) This does not happen, more like 1 in 15 deposits, maybe....

Impossible scenario but if 10/11 of the deposits I described allowed me to play for 2h+ each but I didn't get the wild line and lost on every occasion, I wouldn't have a problem.

As I say difficult to explain in crystal clear terms over a message board. However I do understand your view point also.

That whole post could be explained in one sentence - DoA is an extremely high volatility game and losing most sessions, eventually getting a 'refunder' via a big win is exactly how I would expect it to be.

Conversely, if you were getting 2h+ play for each deposit you wouldn't be hitting exciting multi-thousand times wins - the pot cannot contain both gentle Starburst-style base game time AND potential for 10k times hits.

The trouble with us slot players is that expectation often doesn't relate to the unimpeachable reality of the game maths.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That whole post could be explained in one sentence - DoA is an extremely high volatility game and losing most sessions, eventually getting a 'refunder' via a big win is exactly how I would expect it to be.

Conversely, if you were getting 2h+ play for each deposit you wouldn't be hitting exciting multi-thousand times wins - the pot cannot contain both gentle Starburst-style base game time AND potential for 10k times hits.

The trouble with us slot players is that expectation often doesn't relate to the unimpeachable reality of the game maths.

Yeah I played DoA a fair amount back in the day, back when it was in its alleged 'good' form in the heyday of NetEnt and 100% bonuses still being a regular occurrence. Could never hit a bloody thing of note on it, and certainly not a wildline or the fabled five scatters.

I've said over in the Bonanza thread that you literally just need to go back to the start of the thread and read over the early months of that game and player experiences, for some people it was playing like an absolute bag of spanners right out of the gate, exactly how some people will insist it's been 'changed to' from this previously much better version that from the descriptions of it, apparently had an RTP of around 128% and always gave at least six bonuses per evening at an even distribution of 300 spins per bonus.

There's only so much RTP to go round, and like you say dunover, to cover all the bases that players would like to see a slot deliver, would also mean RTPs well north of 100%.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I don’t understand why anybody would play DOA when they know it’s now on a shitty RTP and they also know that your game time will be halved and the casinos profit will increase by 50% on every single long term spin that you have???

It’s fucking insanity when it’s hard enough to win on anything that’s on 96%!!!!

Why do people keep playing low RTP slots??? Why??

If you think it’s not the same as it once was it’s because it’s absolutely not!!

Play it somewhere else where you know it’s on full whack at least!!

 

[Jono777]

This is the thing though that most have overlooked....Maybe I could have explained more in depth, who knows

What I described as in good play time, "refunders" and player experience, I WAS getting.

I was also getting this REGULARLY on the HTML5 changeover and more importantly STILL getting it on the 94.03% version and OFTEN.

All of a sudden it is if some sort of compensation and change in code has occurred

I know most will still argue the point and I'm sat here listening but without mentioning something new and avoiding the variance / RTP argument I will struggle to understand what has REALLY happened.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

What’s ur long term RTP on the game at VS??

 

[Jono777]

What’s ur long term RTP on the game at VS??

Not sure, I shall have a look later.

However this may show at closer to TRTP than I realise due to the seldom big hits which does not cover the scenario I describe in terms of dwindling game time and value for deposits as the years/month's have rolled by.

 

[TheAddict]

Coming from someone who also only really played DOA, Jono is kinda right, biarches!
sure it runs a bit slower with autoplay, but you really was able yo sit there for days on a 300x bankroll and a litle bit of luck. I used to do it all the time using reloads, and if losing a reload, going to the next site. Hence the 100 lines during all that (life wasting boredom) fun

The game simply no longer produces such lengthy sessions, that were regular and often weekly occurrences for me before seeing that Evo boot up screen dfhifnjorefnksvdcds sdnfjkdwfwdli
:....(

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Specifically back on VS, my play last week generated 75 free spins from Clash Of Spins, at 10p/20p spins on a variety of slots, these usually generate a small amount in the region of £3-£5. Nothing to get too excited about in some regards but as wager-free funds in my account it's a reasonable little perk.

Anyway this week one of the blocks of spins managed a decent pay, and altogether I've ended up with £16.70p of funds in my account, which on a week where I also turned a £100 deposit into £290 withdrawal is pretty good, and then there's still my Weekend Booster to come on Friday.

I zero-ed out my balance when I withdrew so that's all off my free spins.

The little perks like this at VS are still modestly decent IMO, albeit considerably shaved back from where they used to be with all the wheels and bonus offers and suchlike.

 

[mack341]

Specifically back on VS, my play last week generated 75 free spins from Clash Of Spins, at 10p/20p spins on a variety of slots, these usually generate a small amount in the region of £3-£5. Nothing to get too excited about in some regards but as wager-free funds in my account it's a reasonable little perk.

Anyway this week one of the blocks of spins managed a decent pay, and altogether I've ended up with £16.70p of funds in my account, which on a week where I also turned a £100 deposit into £290 withdrawal is pretty good, and then there's still my Weekend Booster to come on Friday.

I zero-ed out my balance when I withdrew so that's all off my free spins.

The little perks like this at VS are still modestly decent IMO, albeit considerably shaved back from where they used to be with all the wheels and bonus offers and suchlike.

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Without the straggle of 96% offerings, these perks would be pointless, you would've most likely lost the £100 in exchange for some 10p spins on a low rtp game.

That's the William Hill strategy, I'd like to know their figures now compared to say 6yrs back, when they had a lot of Microgaming slots on full fat.

Sometimes they now give out 10 free spins as a prize on that bonus drop promo, they're definitely feeling the effects of customer desertion imo.

Look at Aldi's success in the supermarket business, without them the other places would collectively have us over a barrel. Their greed created opportunity for another firm to get in there.

Perhaps AI can save the casinos some costs, and 96 rtp returns as the norm

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Had an evening on BTG's 'Castle of Terror', not one I've ever played before.

It's a pretty decent slot, I won a bit on it (£20) and had it running for hours so no complaints.

Don't bet on seeing the enhanced free spins though (needs the gold scatter on reel 6), out of 16 free spins rounds, all of them were normal.

Best hit of the session was actually in the basegame (see below), of 307x. I took the option to gamble 100x of that for the free spins round (guaranteed exchange at 100x), and collect the rest as a win. It paid off by increasing the total slightly to 330x.

Any wins that could be gambled for the feature I just collected, as the feature can pay pretty crappy so even if the gamble was won it could easily still turn out to be a net loss!

Getting to the 20x multiplier for the retrigger in the feature doesn't seem common either, I didn't manage it once, although it trolled me a couple of times by getting to 19x on the last free spin

4096 ways instead of Megaways, with nice clear graphics so it's a very easy slot to 'read', the holy water mechanic can frustrate because of the way loads of them land but only one or two (or none!) turn into an actual wild, but at least it sustains the sense of hope for a bit longer

Overall, one I'd have another crack at.

 

[dunover]

Had an evening on BTG's 'Castle of Terror', not one I've ever played before.

It's a pretty decent slot, I won a bit on it (£20) and had it running for hours so no complaints.

Don't bet on seeing the enhanced free spins though (needs the gold scatter on reel 6), out of 16 free spins rounds, all of them were normal.

Best hit of the session was actually in the basegame (see below), of 307x. I took the option to gamble 100x of that for the free spins round (guaranteed exchange at 100x), and collect the rest as a win. It paid off by increasing the total slightly to 330x.

Any wins that could be gambled for the feature I just collected, as the feature can pay pretty crappy so even if the gamble was won it could easily still turn out to be a net loss!

Getting to the 20x multiplier for the retrigger in the feature doesn't seem common either, I didn't manage it once, although it trolled me a couple of times by getting to 19x on the last free spin

4096 ways instead of Megaways, with nice clear graphics so it's a very easy slot to 'read', the holy water mechanic can frustrate because of the way loads of them land but only one or two (or none!) turn into an actual wild, but at least it sustains the sense of hope for a bit longer

Overall, one I'd have another crack at.

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Oh yeah, the one with Corbyn, Truss, Starmer and Rayner on the reels.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Jezza would sort it all out.