Defending NoiQ - Right to speak

[NoiQian]

User: maxd posted the following thread:-

Complaints Co-Moderator and Pitch-A-Bitch Manager Join Date: Jan 2004

NoIQ Poker: slo-pay, stalled 'investigations'


We've have a few complaints against NoIQ Poker on the books for a while now. NoIQ claims that they are investigating every single such case with the Canadian Fraud police .. but unfortunately those police are on vacation and never seem to return from vacation long enough for NoIQ to make any progress with the cases. Furthermore these are all moderately high-value cases totaling well over $30,000. All parties concerned have a right to expect some action on these issues and thus far there has been precisely none.

Whether this is a lack of will on NoIQ's part or a terrible circumstance they find themselves in the bottom line is that players aren't getting paid and their cases are stalled with no hopeful sign of forward movement. So, ...

Warning: NoIQ is withholding payments pending 'investigation' but those investigations never seem to go anywhere. Proceed with extreme caution.

Unfortunately I do not have the administrative right to reply to the original post so I proceeded to reply to it on my own new thread.

In respect to the above post a number of factors contributed to this lengthy investigation. First it should be noted that the players delayed their initial responses to us with about 3 months. This triggered suspicion within the department. Following this is also the fact that their stories, claims, and other patterns seemed rather similar.

It should also be noted that a further delay was caused due to a delay in the Police Fraud Division of which our main correspondent is on annual leave till the 19th May. These circumstances have slowed down the investigations which we are hoping to conclude asap. NoiQ has an obligation in respect of clean and legitimate players and KYC requirements. This is a claim we uphold and boast. It should also be noted that collaboration from NoiQ to Casinomeister was done openly and fully.

The investigation will we concluded within the coming week.

NoiQ
Payments

 

[maxd]

A link to the post -- a Warning -- in question: NoIQ Poker: slo-pay, stalled 'investigations'.

 

[jetset]

User: maxd posted the following thread:-

Complaints Co-Moderator and Pitch-A-Bitch Manager Join Date: Jan 2004

NoIQ Poker: slo-pay, stalled 'investigations'


We've have a few complaints against NoIQ Poker on the books for a while now. NoIQ claims that they are investigating every single such case with the Canadian Fraud police .. but unfortunately those police are on vacation and never seem to return from vacation long enough for NoIQ to make any progress with the cases. Furthermore these are all moderately high-value cases totaling well over $30,000. All parties concerned have a right to expect some action on these issues and thus far there has been precisely none.

Whether this is a lack of will on NoIQ's part or a terrible circumstance they find themselves in the bottom line is that players aren't getting paid and their cases are stalled with no hopeful sign of forward movement. So, ...

Warning: NoIQ is withholding payments pending 'investigation' but those investigations never seem to go anywhere. Proceed with extreme caution.

Unfortunately I do not have the administrative right to reply to the original post so I proceeded to reply to it on my own new thread.

In respect to the above post a number of factors contributed to this lengthy investigation. First it should be noted that the players delayed their initial responses to us with about 3 months. This triggered suspicion within the department. Following this is also the fact that their stories, claims, and other patterns seemed rather similar.

It should also be noted that a further delay was caused due to a delay in the Police Fraud Division of which our main correspondent is on annual leave till the 19th May. These circumstances have slowed down the investigations which we are hoping to conclude asap. NoiQ has an obligation in respect of clean and legitimate players and KYC requirements. This is a claim we uphold and boast. It should also be noted that collaboration from NoiQ to Casinomeister was done openly and fully.

The investigation will we concluded within the coming week.

NoiQ
Payments

Does your management/owner know you're posting this stuff to a public Internet record?

I ask because it smacks of <cough> bull**.

Do you have a police reference number and station of report that we can use to confirm your unlikely allegation that you have involved the "Canadian Fraud Police" in this "investigation"?

If so I would love to follow up on your claim here.

Look forward to hearing from you real soon.

 

[Casinomeister]

Does your management/owner know you're posting this stuff to a public Internet record?

The member signed up with a yahoo email address; we're waiting for NoiQian to forward us a noiq related email address before responding to the matter. It could be anyone posting this.

 

[maxd]

Do you have a police reference number and station of report that we can use to confirm your unlikely allegation that you have involved the "Canadian Fraud Police" in this "investigation"?

In the emails I've received from NoIQ they just keep saying "officer is away", "officer still on vacation", "officer now on extended vacation", etc.

In other words no claim has been made that the police are actually involved, just that they _will_ be involved when they get back from their holidays, vacation and extended leave.

As you can see, the flags go up and the Warning gets posted.

 

[Casinomeister]

NoiQian passed the litmus test. He's an i-Gaming rep

 

[chuchu59]

NoiQian passed the litmus test. He's an i-Gaming rep

He hasnt passed the acid test though. We will see how he responds to the issue on the Canadian Police being involved.

 

[Pinababy69]

Canadian Fraud Police? Is this a force I'm not familiar with here in Canada? Or is he referring to the Fraud Division of the RCMP? If so, I'm pretty sure that the RCMP have more than one officer employed in their fraud division...and that cases aren't just left "on hold" while an officer goes on vacation. Interesting.

 

[deltoid]

NoiQ? No IQ? Really?

Canadian Fraud Police? Is that right next to the Canadian Speeding Police, and down the hall from the Canadian Theft Police? Really?

Why does this sound like a Nigerian 419 spam email. REALLY.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, I've heard from Ian that he's going to proceed to clear 2 out of the 3 outstanding cases. I'm checking about the third case. Once those cases are cleared, and the players confirm it, I'll be withdrawing the Warning.

 

[jetset]

I'm glad they are finally doing something constructive about this rather than insulting our intelligence with this patently nonsensical fraud squad bull.

This has gone on long enough and needs to be brought to a conclusion by the operator imo.

 

[pokeraddict]

FWIW, I've heard from Ian that he's going to proceed to clear 2 out of the 3 outstanding cases. I'm checking about the third case. Once those cases are cleared, and the players confirm it, I'll be withdrawing the Warning.

I believe there will be some happy charities out there.

 

[deltoid]

I'm glad someone found some IQ over there and is going to pay the players (although to be honest we have no idea what exactly the problem was, who knows maybe they were fraudsters! But innocent till proven guilty, I say).

NoIQ - please explain Canadian Fraud Police. Did you think there were no Canadians here? Or was this a language thing as English might not be your first language? There is no such thing as the Canadian Fraud Police. There's the RCMP, which believe it or not is about police on horsies, but that's about as silly as we get up here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm glad someone found some IQ over there and is going to pay the players (although to be honest we have no idea what exactly the problem was, who knows maybe they were fraudsters! But innocent till proven guilty, I say).

NoIQ - please explain Canadian Fraud Police. Did you think there were no Canadians here? Or was this a language thing as English might not be your first language? There is no such thing as the Canadian Fraud Police. There's the RCMP, which believe it or not is about police on horsies, but that's about as silly as we get up here.

Surely there are two issues here:-

1) Unpaid players

2) Canadian "Fraud Police" investigating.

Whilst it looks like 1) will shortly be resolved, surely we should investigate whether or not the Canadian Police, of whatever division, were actually involved.

If 2) was a lie, then the warning should stand, as this would show an intent to screw players, giving in only under pressure, and there could be other players unaware of Casinomeister not getting paid.

The "leave, more leave, and extended leave" DOES sound fishy to me. There is normally a limit on the amount of annual leave someone can take from work, ranging from 4-6 weeks (+bank holidays) here in the UK. This appears to have been the excuse for 3 months, far more "leave" than even a Civil Servant over here gets

If there IS a police investigation, there should be a reference number, or something similar. I am also a bit surprised that the Canadian Police would ASSIST an online gambling operation that is offering services to Canadians, as their is a view it is "illegal".

Compare this with Rival who have run scared of Canadian authorities now that it has got out that Rival is owned by Canadian citizens, who clearly do not want to be involved with offering the product to Canadians. There have been others too, Neteller pulled out of offering accounts to Canadians a while ago, presumably on legal advice that they were as much at risk as they were when offering services within the USA.

The NoiQ rep has now given us an opportunity to discuss this whole issue, and I find it odd that after 3 months, these players are now all getting paid within a day or two of this new development.

I would soon like to see one or two of the PABers tell THEIR story, but ONLY after this has been resolved. They may want to refute the claim that it was they who stalled for most of this 3 months by not responding to NoiQ.

 

[NewOrleans]

I am canadian and don't appreciate that comment with the recession and crime way way up it's no wonder they are slow...

 

[NewOrleans]

Oh and before I forget,you would have to have no IQ to play at no IQ in the first place with all the choice of poker rooms there are and good rake deals...

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am canadian and don't appreciate that comment with the recession and crime way way up it's no wonder they are slow...

If you were referring to my "annual leave" comment, it was NOT directed at Canadian police, but at NoIQ for trying to tell us that no progress being made was due to an officer dealing with it taking around 3 months off.

I am not even sure that there IS an investigation in the first place, but that this is a stalling tactic, and by passing the buck to the Canadian Police, they are excusing themselves from any responsibility for the delay.

Such a tactic could allow any casino to stall for YEARS on a payment issue, and simply claim it's "out of our hands, ............ are investigating".

I am sure a Canadian member could tell us the procedure for when a complaint is made of fraud, and the police begin an investigation. I am sure that somewhere along the line a reference number is generated for the crime(s) reported, and given to the victim for use in later correspondence.

Perhaps one of the players involved should contact the Canadian police and make a specimen complaint because of the length of time taken. If NoIQ were lying about taking it up with the police, they would be busted at this point.

I find it odd that after all this waiting, NoIQ are now saying they will just pay up, and forget all about the investigation - I am not sure what the police would think, but over here they might consider it a matter of "wasting police time", itself a crime.

I suspect that one reason for NoIQ paying up is to prevent this being taken up directly with the Canadian police by, for example, journalists investigating the story now it has become public. Paying up effectively kills the story, and it is now unlikely it will be taken further.

 

[Jasminebed]

If the casino requested an investigation, there would be an Incident Number. If the casino had real suspicion of fraud on the part of the players, the payment would not necessarily stop such an investigation, especially if credit card fraud was involved.

Hi all,

I'd played on NoIQ poker for quite awhile, and made many deposits and withdrawals with no problems.

When they announced they were leaving the iPoker network, I decided to withdraw my funds, on 2/24/09. Over the next month they kept refusing to
send my money, and made all sorts of weird threats about law
enforcement, and that I had "tempered with the game" or something. They
wanted scans of my ID, details about my computer and internet connection...
it was very frustrating and confusing. Finally they simply said my account
was closed, and I would not be getting my money (low 5-figures).

I found this site, and "pitched a bitch" on 3/27. Max emailed me
yesterday to say that he had contacted NoIQ, and they told him I would
be allowed to cash out. Shortly afterwards, NoIQ emailed me and said
their investigation with 'local law enforcement' had vindicated me, and
my account was to be reopened! And I was allowed to cash out, and
today confirmed that it went through.

Funny how suddenly they were able to decide to cash me out! What
a bunch of jerks that site turned out to be...i'm guessing they got a
rash of cashout requests when they left iPoker, and decided to just
try and screw over people and steal their money.

But the story sure ends well, for me anyways! Thanks to this site
and Max. What an incredible advocate for the player this site is!

Thanks again!

The above player is from Mexico. I'm sure that if Rushmore could have employed the services of police forces worldwide to conduct its recent fraud investigation rather than pay fees for private investigators, they would have choose this option instead.

I think that making false statements to players and to this forum is rogue behaviour. NoIQ, you need to provide us proof in the form of the Incident Number in the case of the Canadian players that you had indeed filed a complaint and requested an investigation, or I would conclude that your casino and its method of operation is rogue indeed.

If you did request an investigation, please inform us of what, if any, action the police took, or are prepared to take.

 

[Mousey]

the entire situation is too hinky for words....

alarm bells are going off so loudly in my head I can't see to read... LOL

 

[vinylweatherman]

If the casino requested an investigation, there would be an Incident Number. If the casino had real suspicion of fraud on the part of the players, the payment would not necessarily stop such an investigation, especially if credit card fraud was involved.



The above player is from Mexico. I'm sure that if Rushmore could have employed the services of police forces worldwide to conduct its recent fraud investigation rather than pay fees for private investigators, they would have choose this option instead.

I think that making false statements to players and to this forum is rogue behaviour. NoIQ, you need to provide us proof in the form of the Incident Number in the case of the Canadian players that you had indeed filed a complaint and requested an investigation, or I would conclude that your casino and its method of operation is rogue indeed.

If you did request an investigation, please inform us of what, if any, action the police took, or are prepared to take.

Well, from this Mexican player's story, it is starting to look more and more like a stalling game. It seems that what triggered the investigation on this particular player was his decision to liquidate everything on hearing that NoIQ were leaving a particular poker network. This is entirely logical, since if that network was your "home turf", you would naturally want to move over to another of it's skins to continue playing there. Before this, the player had been making deposits AND WITHDRAWALS without any trouble, then SUDDENLY, he is accused of quite a serious crime in order to prevent him leaving with his entire account balance after an adverse announcement.
If this was REALLY about fraud, he would have been having trouble with his FIRST one or two withdrawals.

Maybe EVERYONE (almost) met the announcement with the same response, perhaps because NoIQ failed to instill confidence in the players that the move was going to be of benefit. Probably the easiest way to have done this would be to announce leaving one network, but say nothing about joining another, leaving player's loking at an unspecified length of time where they would have "dead" funds, and also be unable to play any poker.

 

[Jasminebed]

It seems to me an incredible coincidence that this Mexican player was "vindicated" by local law enforcement right when CM stepped in.

Canadian players delayed because of "Canadian Fraud Squad" investigations being delayed were able to be paid within days of PABs.

Guess CM's power is such that worldwide police forces respond promptly when faced with PABs.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, the three cases that prompted the Warning have apparently been resolved: I have received confirmation from all three players. The Warning has been withdrawn.

A new case had been added in the last couple days but that's another issue.

 

[Casinomeister]

...Guess CM's power is such that worldwide police forces respond promptly when faced with PABs.

You just never know, do ya?

 

[maxd]

Oh, and fwiw, this "Canadian Fraud Police" thing is almost certainly the result of a language barrier. The people that Ian has been in touch with -- or claims to have been in touch with -- are the Fraud Squad of the Toronto Police Service.

Assuming that that is true then I can see how it would be possible for things to have unfolded as they have. The Toronto Police aren't going to go out of their way to help some nobody who calls up from who knows where asking for the "Canadian Fraud Police". They'd almost certainly think it's some nutter and blow him off.

That said Ian is apparently pursuing this latest case with the Canadian cops and has provided me with some contact info within the TPS which -- and I'm saying this as a Canadian -- looks pretty legit to me. I've asked him to provide document scans from his case once that's been filed. That will pretty much prove he's on the up-and-up here.

 

[jetset]

I'll be happy to apologise for my scepticism if he does that and it is verifiable, but I have to say this still strikes me as a highly unlikely story being used as a deliberate stalling technique.

On the other hand if this has been a stalling jerk-around for the player/s involved, and "Ian" has been very deliberately economical with the truth to Max I would say it merits an instant consignment to the Casinomeister Rogue Pit.