Davies466666666 vs Redbet

[maxd]

The OP has submitted a PAB but unfortunately we can't be of assistance with this one. The casino people inform us that the document request comes from their security department, so it's not a routine thing.

This appears to be a case where the OP should follow the procedures Redbet gives in their Terms, namely to file their complaint with eCOGRA.

 

[Davies466666666]

I completed a PAB - Response: [Max says: not true, see below]

Good morning,

In our terms we are referring to this amendment in 2.4:

"Know Your Customer (KYC) procedures are carried out by the Gaming Operator in order to positively identify Players. The Gaming Operator is entitled to conduct any and all identification and other verification checks that may be required by applicable laws and regulations and/or by the relevant regulatory authorities for use of the Site. The Player is obligated to, upon request from the Gaming Operator, provide official documents in writing such as, for example, an addressed electricity bill, a bank account statement or any other written documentation which the Gaming Operator may find necessary in order to confirm the correctness of the information provided by the Player in connection with the registration or thereupon following verification procedures."

As you can read in the last part "any other written documentation which the Gaming Operator may find necessary in order to confirm the correctness of the information provided by the Player in connection with the registration or thereupon following verification procedures."

If your bank cannot send this information you can also then ask them for a signed and stamped verification that they are unable to provide this information.
Once again, we are not trying to withhold your funds and these requests are done due to setup procedures.

I can only refer you to keep in contact with the support team who's your first hand contact in this matter.
Should you feel that we are not following the UKGC or MGA regulations we would hand out full information of this case to them upon request, if a complaint is filed.

The information I've received regarding this matter is that the documents requested needs to be handed in and that's the decision they are standing by.

Regards,
redbet Emil

---------------------------------------------------------------

The phone initially made to bank I spoke to your average customer service person, he didn't have clue about sending letters, not his department. When i visited the bank I got the same message from clerk, not those peoples jobs.
It looking like I will have to write letter to head office of the bank.

But come on!!!
Is this what it's become.
The two old cards we're verified by Redbet and used numerous times. What other hoops must I jump through.
Letter also must be stamped - I wonder if the letter I send it in must be waxed sealed also.
The terms Redbet are stating to where adhered by myself upon initial registration and verification upon website.
This is a matter of verifying a new debit card not the two old cards so Redbet are totally mis-using the terminology.

 

[maxd]

I completed a PAB - Response:...

There seems to be some confusion because what you quote is not the response I gave to your PAB. My response was:

Hello, I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with this. Redbet insists that UK players follow the complaint procedures given in their General Terms section 11.3 which are:

If you are not content with the Gaming Operator’s handling of your complaint, and you are a UK resident, you may submit your complaint to eCOGRA using their ADR service. A process description of the eCOGRA ADR service is available here.(

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

)

It appears you are confusing the PAB process -- which is the Casinomeister complaints service (here) -- and something else you sent to the casino. They're not at all the same thing.

Furthermore I've told you what the way forward with this is: contact eCOGRA. You should proceed with that asap.

Finally, I'll be updating the thread title to better reflect the situation as it currently stands. If you're able to prove that you were, in the end, in the right I'll happily restore your original thread title. That was "Redbet insist impossible" (sic).

 

[Casinomeister]

This thread is depressing. Yet again we have casinos getting customers to jump through hoops and always with the upper hand of holding players money to ransom. These aren't one off issues. It's become the new norm. Common sense has been abandoned and has instead been replaced with rigid processes that have very little bearing to how things work in the real world. Letters from you banking confirming you once had a card but no longer have it? What a complete piss take.

And as for why they are doing this. This isn't some nefarious plan to get your money (at least I don't think so). This is just an industry that doesn't really care about it's customers.....especially winning ones. I know the OP doesn't want the hassle but I'd be tempted to kick off a small claims to get the funds back if the casino won't back down.

What a time to be a mug punter!!!

I think you might be jumping to conclusions here. And the reason we are seeing more of these sort of intrusive requests is because of new regulations coming into place to protect you, the gambler.

I for one am getting sick to the back teeth of hearing about this sort of thing time and time again, maybe someone should start a Facebook campaign were we all abstain from online gambling for one month then lets see how they change there attitude with a mass drop in customers. I am pretty close to just jacking it all in online, no one needs this crap, do they really think we need them more than they need us? Yes its more convenient online than going to a BM casino but at least its not getting to the point of constantly worrying if your going to get paid or not.

Again, don't jump to conclusions. We only know one side of the story here.

 

[RichyJ75]

My bank, Barclays, randomly send me a new debit card, long before the current card expires.
My last card was due to expire on 08/20. But they sent me a new one last month, that's 16 months early.

I once had a similar problem at Betat. Who were also asking for a bank letter.
It took me so much effort to convince them that the new card I had was just a replacement. Even though the long card number was identical, apart from the last 3 digits, and the bank account and sort code, which is printed on all the cards was identical.

Yep, I'm with Barclays as well and they are a pain in the backside with the amount of cards they issue! I had a card due to expire 06/19 and so far they have now issued 6 replacement cards in this time period! Like you say, just the last 2 or 3 digits tend to change of the card number along with a new expiry date. I presume they allow so many transactions per card before replacing it? But, as card details are stored at each casino, there is obviously no need to swipe or scan it therefore no wear and tear on it.

Thankfully I still have photos of all cards ever used at casinos, just in case, and this has proved very helpful on a few occasions. I even had a casino refuse to remove the debit card because it hadn't reached the expiry date, even though Barclays had already replaced that card with a new one. It took numerous sessions with CS explaining the situation before someone saw sense and replaced it.

I'm still puzzled why casinos are more than happy in accepting money without knowing where it came from instead of verifying payment methods first and before any money is exchanged. Oh yes, it's so they can refuse/delay withdrawals until it is verified!

 

[Casinomeister]

@Davies466666666 - just curious about your user name. Why all the 666s? Is this some mark of Satan user name? Just curious why you chose this.

 

[adamjames]

Some great tactic there, I suppose next casinos will be requesting pictures of punters holding left- handed screwdrivers whilst using tartan paint

I can't believe it when I've heard people say they've had to send pictures of themselves holding a copy of the days paper clearly showing the date

 

[ed skull murphy]

 

[Casinomeister]

Malta, Sicilia... it's Mafia country down there, perhaps they assume that everywhere else is the same.

WTF is that supposed to mean?? Here we have an upstanding casino group that has rarely come on the radar for doing something roguish - and now you are talking about the Mafia running Malta. You may think that it's a funny jab, but it's not. We have a number of newbies looking for guidance here and comments like this don't help the situation.

 

[ed skull murphy]

I'll stay off of these threads from now on, it's none of my business.

I have no further dealings with Malta, I've wasted enough of my life already with their runaround nonsense.

 

[GoldenGhoul]

@Davies466666666 - just curious about your user name. Why all the 666s? Is this some mark of Satan user name? Just curious why you chose this.

Come on, clearly there are too many 6s here, surely satan only needs three, doesn't he? And btw there is a 4 there and eight 6s so you're obviously nitpicking, though I admit some of these new verification and SOW guidelines look like they might be the devil's work

 

[mimi26]

I completed a PAB - Response:

Good morning,

In our terms we are referring to this amendment in 2.4:

"Know Your Customer (KYC) procedures are carried out by the Gaming Operator in order to positively identify Players. The Gaming Operator is entitled to conduct any and all identification and other verification checks that may be required by applicable laws and regulations and/or by the relevant regulatory authorities for use of the Site. The Player is obligated to, upon request from the Gaming Operator, provide official documents in writing such as, for example, an addressed electricity bill, a bank account statement or any other written documentation which the Gaming Operator may find necessary in order to confirm the correctness of the information provided by the Player in connection with the registration or thereupon following verification procedures."

As you can read in the last part "any other written documentation which the Gaming Operator may find necessary in order to confirm the correctness of the information provided by the Player in connection with the registration or thereupon following verification procedures."

If your bank cannot send this information you can also then ask them for a signed and stamped verification that they are unable to provide this information.
Once again, we are not trying to withhold your funds and these requests are done due to setup procedures.

I can only refer you to keep in contact with the support team who's your first hand contact in this matter.
Should you feel that we are not following the UKGC or MGA regulations we would hand out full information of this case to them upon request, if a complaint is filed.

The information I've received regarding this matter is that the documents requested needs to be handed in and that's the decision they are standing by.

Regards,
redbet Emil

---------------------------------------------------------------

The phone initially made to bank I spoke to your average customer service person, he didn't have clue about sending letters, not his department. When i visited the bank I got the same message from clerk, not those peoples jobs.
It looking like I will have to write letter to head office of the bank.

But come on!!!
Is this what it's become.
The two old cards we're verified by Redbet and used numerous times. What other hoops must I jump through.
Letter also must be stamped - I wonder if the letter I send it in must be waxed sealed also.
The terms Redbet are stating to where adhered by myself upon initial registration and verification upon website.
This is a matter of verifying a new debit card not the two old cards so Redbet are totally mis-using the terminology.

So reading through the response from REDBET they can request anything they want even if its impossible to get!.............so where does the player stand here, I think this is a prime example of casinos going overboard with their KYC, in order for it to be fair they have to be aware of what the customer can reasonably provide, its an expired card the customer has the new card I really dont know how KYC is applicable here

 

[AndyP24]

My question about this type of thing is why are they happy to accept your money until it comes to withdrawing?

Certain sites require the KYC before you deposit but others don't, it makes no legal sense to me why these companies can pocket thousands in deposits and not question a thing yet as soon as you make a withdrawal request they are all over it?

 

[goatwack]

You haven't lived until you're forced to submit a handwritten letter stating you're the owner of said card(s), with accompanying pic.

I've been there, it's not pretty. And this is pre-UKGC guidelines

Don't see how it relates to 'KYC' though, other than to try and catch you out, knowing no one keeps their old cards around. Most casinos will happily let one max these out at their site, so they ought to be more than familiar with them. Pure stalling, and somewhat flirting with their accreditation status with stunts like this

 

[nikantw]

I remember a time, 10 or more years ago, another casino, that I had to sign a paper with each one of my card deposits (going 3-4 years back) in order to get my withdrawal

What I can't understand is the bank refusing to give a list of a client's own transactions!

edit...
I got confused by the viking post, but anyway, although it is an odd request the bank should provide it ASAP.

 

[pinnit2014]

Used to be a deposit declaration in the past that some places used? You signed a piece of paper to state that you agree to have your account debited.

 

[Borgie]

I remember a time, 10 or more years ago, another casino, that I had to sign a paper with each one of my card deposits (going 3-4 years back) in order to get my withdrawal

What I can't understand is the bank refusing to give a list of a client's own transactions!

They aren't refusing to list transactions they are saying they dont issue letters saying old debit cards have expired .

Also the casino already have copies of those debit cards.