Curious about other players experiences: Live Dealer Roulette Party Casino

[benmooe]

I've actually visited one of the evolution gaming studios in Latvia and had a look around on behalf of an iGaming company I was working for at the time. Their studio is located outside of Riga in a secure property.

The roulette wheels are supplied by a company who are well known to land based casinos to supply non mechanical wheels with ball sensors in. There are no magnets, no tricks and I got to witness one of their IT team do a spirit level check whereby they assess the wheel to ensure it is not causing "hotspots" when the pit boss suspects it may, If you watch the streams when this happens they can be identified by a grey shirt with IT in bold letters on the back, This also gets checked by a pit manager and recorded. Evolution do not earn money based on house wins and literally provide a software solution and studio staffing options. Majority of online casinos use their whitelabel live play package with tables called "Apollo" or "Hercules".

I'm really impressed with how they had invested in their technology to allow their clients to check up on hands, spins and any possible issues live on the back office too. The casino is responsible for the play and if there was any cheating (in or against the favor of the casino) then there would be an uproar.

The company I worked for at the time did not go for the live casino package from them and instead went for a package from a competitor of theirs in macau (who can be identified by their use of Chinese croupiers and their hilariously oversized blackjack cards). The macau studio had no branding options whatsoever and had no colours to the backdrop so that it wouldn't indicate that it was a shared casino or something like that.

I know i'm a new(ish) user with very few posts but I felt that I should share my experiences .

 

[fire]

I did some research that confirms what benmooe states in the above post.

In my opinion everything looks legit about Live Casino from Riga and with the roulette wheels used by them.

The auto roulette whell seems to be the Slingshot 2 TT (Table Top) - video posted by ziki61

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The roulette whell seems to be the Mercury 360 RRS (Random Rotor Speed) - video posted by patricius

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I've also found two blogs with information about roulette wheels. Was a nice read!

Roulette30

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Kellys Corner

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

In the blogs I've found this picture:





But if you really don't want loose money playing roulette, you should try to find a Casino with this kind of roulette wheel:

 

[patricius]

Just to add some info:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If you read reply number 7 ( and some others ) on the post above, you see that with RRS no one believes in truly random results.

And more, if this type of wheel is "regular" and "unbiased" didn´t have the behaviour of some air roulette ( also with a motorized rotor that can put the ball where intended - a roulette disguised slot machine YMHO ).

Furthermore this "enhancement" is collecting new players until they are informed about this wheel functioning and, when compared to other casino wheels ( without this feature ), they feel they have been mistaken by the

casino. If this "enhancement" was undoubtedly legit and acceptable for players, why this type of wheel is not clearly mentioned/advertised as the one being used?

The only way, in my point of view, of a casino using this wheel ( without any doubts for players ) is players at table knowing total bets made in that roulette ( in the same live feed for several online casinos ), and see if there is any correlation with the wagering and the spin results.

Without that transparency roulette is for me an untrusted game. Probably baccarat will became my future option, since cards don´t change face value.

 

[fire]

Cammegh roulette wheel spinning at 300fps:



In my research I've found that Cammegh seems to have manufacturer gaming licenses in US (Washington, Nevada, New Jersey and Delaware).

And yes patricius, change from roulette to baccarat is a great deal as you have much better odds in baccarat. But you should only bet in the Banker that "only" has 1.06% house edge.

People must keep in mind that in the long run the casino always win.

Take care.

 

[patricius]

Hi there firenine

Thanks for the youtube video regarding the speed of the Cammegh wheel.

To close by my side this topic, since I now have my final thoughts on it, I would like to add this link regarding the subject:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and also mentioning a document of the Casino Regulatory Authority of Singapore, that defines the construction of a roulette wheel:


"3.3 The cylinder shall be constructed and designed to rotate and move freely of its own accord but all affixed parts of the roulette wheel must be secure and free from movement. "

To see the full document please see attachment.

Best regards.

 

[fire]

Hi there firenine

Thanks for the youtube video regarding the speed of the Cammegh wheel.

To close by my side this topic, since I now have my final thoughts on it, I would like to add this link regarding the subject:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and also mentioning a document of the Casino Regulatory Authority of Singapore, that defines the construction of a roulette wheel:


"3.3 The cylinder shall be constructed and designed to rotate and move freely of its own accord but all affixed parts of the roulette wheel must be secure and free from movement. "

To see the full document please see attachment.

Best regards.

In the thread posted by you, I've found the reply of Michael "Wizard of Odds" Shackleford:

The OP seems to be saying that the casino can control where the ball lands by manipulating the speed of the wheel. Sorry, but I don't think the technology exists to do that.

What I could picture happening is the wheel randomly changing speed, even mid-spin, to combat online wheel clockers. I think this is a reasonable fear and defense. If my assumption is right, then I wouldn't call it cheating. I'd view it like the casinos putting the bumpy surface at the craps tables, to add another level of randomization to the outcome.

Many people seems to believe that RRS (RANDOM Rotor Speed) technology allows the house to control the speed of the roulette wheel and/or where the ball will land. But everything about the subject makes it clear that speed is randomly and can not be adjusted by the house.

But the best thing to do is: don't play any kind of roulette

 

[louieuk]

rigged roulette wheels

online lavia casino used by a lot of betting companys are rigged with electro magnets under each pocket i play a lot of roulette and never does a live table track your movements the way these ones do the ball dont fall into pocket it gets sucked into it i bet red it goes black i bet 1-35 it goes 36 where ever the least money is it goes if you keep betting black it keeps going red lots software roulette does this , also in the lobby you see the 0 hit 3 or 4 or differnt tablles in sequence they type something under the tables when they want it to target people computerized magnetics at first all seem normal but if it is busy and you bet low you can win sometimes depends where the money is but if it early in morning not many people playing or you bet big it targets you tracking your movements have you been on the lavia online casino and seen the dealers making hand signals? every time
they spin the ball they do a signal sometime a cough most rub and flip there hands they do it with there hair to left side and right side i worked out some of the signals one night and won on red & black 50 times they reverse the signals from time to time rub there hands means switch you wonder why ? the casino is not play out the money for wins the betting company is now the people who work there and the dealer can see on the screen
where the most most is on red or black so the gaffed roulette wheel goes to the other side where least money is dont beleve me go watch it for your self

 

[bradztheman]

I know this thread is very very old, but please watch these videos on youtube of the live dealers in latvia, and smartlivecasino (maybe british based), watch how the ball literally lands in one number and pops back out.

One video is on smartlivecasino:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And the other is william hill (Latvia based):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Flax80]

I am very convinced Evolution Gaming use magnets

Hi,

First of all a very happy and lucky 2011 to you all!

The reason I am posting is this message is that I am curious about other players experiences playing Live Dealer Roulette, especially in the Party Casino.

I've been playing roulette for over 20 years in real live casino's now and also played live dealer roulette at a few online casino's. The results at WH, 888 and AMC met my expectations in relation to the real live casino's, i.e. if you play and stick to a strategy you'll win and lose meeting the 1/37 advantage of the casino. Fyi I'm always playing many different numbers and making progressive bets up to 100-150 spins.

Very interesting however is the outcome at the Live Dealer Roulette at Party Casino, which I suspected to be rigged in some kind of way. The live dealers, mostly from Latvia/Russia are real, they are spinning for real, but it seems to me that the number where the ball falls, is fixed by magnetism in combination with computerized calculations or something due to the different timeperiod between the betting time is over and the dealer starts spinning the ball.
Besides sometimes the effect is so unreal and believe me I've seen ten thousands of spins. Interesting is also how the results interact with your depositing behaviour: first a maximized win and then an unmaximized loss, but deposit again and you'll win first again, but if you come near a profit you'll lose and so on, like playing (non-live dealer) roulettesoftware. I also noticed in my humble opinion that the behaviour of some live dealers is suspicious, maybe some of them now and others don't that something isn't just right. I know no one'll ever be able to prove that the Live Dealer Roulette at Party Casino is fixed, I quit playing there and the purposes of my posting are:

1. Are there players which have experienced the same odd results, spinningeffects and dealer behaviour?
2. Isn't there any possibilty to fix Live Dealer Roulette?
2. Warning people to play the Live Dealer Roulette at Party Casino!

Thanks for your replies.

Kind regards.

I am a big looser at Roulette, I have no problem admitting that, a GAMBLAHOLIC, absolutely!

So I have lost about a milion or two playing LIVE Dealer Roulette, by Evolution Gaming. This means that I have spun the ball for quite some more, since I ofcourse have qon some times.

But why do I believe it is rigged?

1. You can see the winnings at the table. On most of occations when I played big, I would have won a lot more then the total of winnings for the smallstake gamblers. I say the calculate every spin as soon as betts are off so that they can figure out what number wil give low payout.
2. EVG deliver 25% profit a year. This is about 15 % more than what is normal concidering average payout on Roulette, BJ, TEXAS etc.
3. LIVE VIP ROULETTE have an average of 4 double spins per 100 spins.( my own statistics over 1 year) Odds for hitting a double is is 1-1369. Having 3-4 doubles per 1369 is quite a lot over average. Also, how many times have you been to a casino and seen a quadrouple hit, 4 in a row same number? odds are 1 - 1874161. I have a picture of this... And to be sure there was a tripple also within the same 100 spins.
4. This so called Casino is not an actual casino. They are not under local authority and therefore not controlled by local companies. They have no casino licence in Latvia.
5. Ask them for some proof they are actually being controlled and they will mention some companies, but not come up with an actual report.
6. I understand my acusations are me to proove, but I do not understand why it is not in EVG interest to proove me wrong. Why dont they send me a repport?
7. I hear they are tested for RNG.. My question is are they tested for RNG taking stakes in concideration?
8. Alderny Gaming Comission approve and test systems before launched. But they do not regulate gamis in progress. So what is stopping anyone from rigging the game after installed? The often pull out a big black screen around the roulette table, shut of cameras and do something. ( I have pictures and believe it or not MGA is finally taking action and investigating this)
9. There will be so many people out there saying it is not rigged etc, I say again I have many acusations now, please provide me with some hard proof themn. Because for me it is impossible to enter this casino( videostudio). It is impossible to find any repport of a control.

 

[Svenja]

I think one of the best live roulettes

 

[John ioannou]

Must say I've seen some illogical patterns appear exactly when I decide to place my bets, spooky and hard to prove it's rigged but the odds always seem to be in their favour,

 

[ed skull murphy]

Without wishing to put a jinx on myself, I play live dealer roulette more often than is good for me, but it is my life at the moment, and I know that that is a sad kind of statement, but I win and I lose, but mostly I win, otherwise I would pack it in, honestly.

It pays my bills and keeps me from going mad.

Live dealer roulette is not rigged, and does not need to be rigged, if the various live roulette providers can turn over hundreds of thousands per spin, worldwide, and rake in 2.76% (or whatever the percentage is), every spin, for their casino platform customers, why screw around and try to rig the results? It doesn't make any sense.

Have you ever considered the possibility that roulette is just not the game for you? Or that you have not yet gained enough experience in this game to make it profitable? Or that you are playing while tired, or stressed, or otherwise in the wrong frame of mind, for whatever reason.

IT'S NOT F**KING RIGGED!! Why would it be?

 

[John ioannou]

My personal opinion along with many others who have been burnt by online roulette, is that they are somehow rigged, probably technology with artifical intelligence manipulates the outcome, the amount of times I play heavy and lose is to illogical the casino is consistently lucky especially when big bets are down, time and time again, I persisted with a section for over 30 spins and it didn't hit an area of 14 numbers a single time, coincidence? Maybe or maybe not, I played black after 8 reds, another 25 reds came with a 3 single blacks scattered in, coincidence, Na,

I play to actually stick with the last colour and the ball keeps landing in alternating colours as soon as you decide to bet a pattern it will do anything to oppose that pattern and consistently, you persist it persists, simple as that.


The odds of them throwing the right sections which are in their favour exactly at the times you bet is completely illogical,

I'm not talking a once or twice scenario I'm talking almost 100 percent of the time.

Complete scam

 

[ed skull murphy]

I've won over a grand tonight. Evolution, Extreme, NetEnt and Playtech. Enough said.

 

[KasinoKing]

I am very convinced Evolution Gaming use magnets

3. LIVE VIP ROULETTE have an average of 4 double spins per 100 spins.( my own statistics over 1 year) Odds for hitting a double is is 1-1369. Having 3-4 doubles per 1369 is quite a lot over average. Also, how many times have you been to a casino and seen a quadrouple hit, 4 in a row same number? odds are 1 - 1874161. I have a picture of this... And to be sure there was a tripple also within the same 100 spins.

Sorry - I know I am quoting a post from March - but I've only just seen it for the first time when someone else bumped this thread...

The maths above is WAY out!
The odds of a double is 1-37 (assuming single-zero roulette), therefore the odds are a little under 3 times per 100 spins.
1-1369 are the odds of seeing a TREBLE.
And for a quad, it's 1-50,563, not 1-1874161 (that's for 5 in a row).

Just pointing that out - I don't play live roulette, so I have no comments on it's fairness.

KK

 

[dunover]

Sorry - I know I am quoting a post from March - but I've only just seen it for the first time when someone else bumped this thread...

The maths above is WAY out!
The odds of a double is 1-37 (assuming single-zero roulette), therefore the odds are a little under 3 times per 100 spins.
1-1369 are the odds of seeing a TREBLE.
And for a quad, it's 1-50,563, not 1-1874161 (that's for 5 in a row).

Just pointing that out - I don't play live roulette, so I have no comments on it's fairness.

KK

Actually it is and isn't KK - the devil is in the detail here:
The odds of the same number coming up on consecutive spins is indeed 37/37 x 1/37 = 1/37.
BUT if the player's nominated the number specifically and bet on it twice as an individual number-bet then it is in fact 1/37 x 1/37 = 1/1369

But reading the post you've quoted, I read it the same as you; the poster hasn't specified whether there is a bet placed on this sequence in advance therefore the first event has to be 37/37 so you are correct.

 

[Flax80]

A lot of you mention why do you need to cheat when you already have a winning system with apx 2,7% payback.

Ok why does anybody cheat? GREED GREED AND GREED... People want more and more, we are never happy.

Some examples of hard to believe scams;
1. Volkswagon
2. Lance Armstrong
3. 100m Runners, how many had there been....
4. Leehman Brothers Sub Prime loans
5. Petrobas, read todays paper.

But I admit, all you who say it is so impossible for them to rigg games. They do a good job convincing you... but I challenge you all, write some emails and challenge EVG and their operators.. See if they are interested in answering.

 

[ed skull murphy]

A lot of you mention why do you need to cheat when you already have a winning system with apx 2,7% payback.

Ok why does anybody cheat? GREED GREED AND GREED... People want more and more, we are never happy.

Some examples of hard to believe scams;
1. Volkswagon
2. Lance Armstrong
3. 100m Runners, how many had there been....
4. Leehman Brothers Sub Prime loans
5. Petrobas, read todays paper.

But I admit, all you who say it is so impossible for them to rigg games. They do a good job convincing you... but I challenge you all, write some emails and challenge EVG and their operators.. See if they are interested in answering.

So what should I write in my email? How about... " I win on average about £5k a week playing live roulette, can you pleeze explain that to me? You scamming bastids!"

 

[ed skull murphy]

This morning's credits into my bank. Just in case anyone doubts the veracity of my claims.

This was the result of £2400 in deposits, and I am not trying to show off, I'm just trying to show the 'it's all rigged' mob, that winning is possible.

 

[kelapa]

This morning's credits into my bank. Just in case anyone doubts the veracity of my claims.

This was the result of £2400 in deposits, and I am not trying to show off, I'm just trying to show the 'it's all rigged' mob, that winning is possible.

Spare us a tenner?

For how long have you been playing with Evo now? I did very well too, for the first bunch of months. Then things started to get progressively more bizarre.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Hi kelapa, only the Grosvenor withdrawal was from playing on Evo, the others were Playtech or NetEnt, but I have only recently begun playing Evolution in earnest, and 99% of the time on the 'dual-play' tables from Dragonara, Grand Casino, Hippodrome and Grosvenor. I really don't like the studio tables from Evo.

See if you can open an account on one of the betsson brands because they have a nice selection; Kroon and Oranje casinos are both Benelux facing, although they are sticklers for verification, so your kyc documents will need to be in order. They don't have a Spanish site, as far as I know. They have one in Georgia, that takes BTC, but it only has Georgia gov't licence, which I don't know much about.

 

[Fredos386]

"only recently begun evo" ya EXACTLY. When i started roulette i had exhausted all the "beginner's luck" around and was ripping everywhere forever without rest so i tried live roulette... and ya had that beginner's luck once more! So magically won thousands over thousands the first few months like magic! Then... oops.. lose everything forever... winrate is half what it should be... i lose 3-5 spins to win one with 32% odds and it's steady. The higher i bet the lesser i win, the lesser i bet the more i win... to the point i never had big bets go through more than once while if i sit and do 1$ bet on a row.. dam 4-5-6- in a row gg so easy! Raise bet to 20-50$+ fail fail fail fail fail. Online live roulette and autoroulettes are a complete scam. Everything is controled, no results are so flawlessly made. It's all set to lure you un, suck you dry, lure you back in, suck you dry... that randomness is amazing.

As i always claimed, the casinos are controling everything. You will get the RTP you are supposed to get period. They will give you the wins in a certain way to always favor/trigger a side of the compulsive gambler. It's like they took the guide to compulsive gambling addiction and built everything around it. Meaning every little scam is made in a way that it develops or look like one of the phase of the compulsive gambler and can be dismissed quickly. Like slots always behaving in one of a few "cycles" where the same thing happen over and over like we were given series one after another like watching movies on "random" and each time a new movie starts you see how it goes and think "how no i know that story too well.. i can tell it at every step of the way". And that's how it is. People watched me play and i would regularly come with what appear as "out of nowhere" calls where i predict what will happen, call hits few seconds before they happen, go on someone else stream and call the number that will land. Always being right... the odds? Not because of magic, just because i played and paid attention so much that now i see what is going on and recognize certain cycles and remember what happens next. Does that give me an edge? Absolutely not since i also said "they control everything" so ya even if i knew the numbers coming, it doesn't mean they would still land if i bet on them etc. With online gambling you can't ever think "oh i shouldve done this instead of that" since the outcome would've been different. Bet size matters.

With such a built system the stats always show the right expected numbers so it looks fair... no. I always repeat the same thing, don't look the stats... look HOW these stats happened. If you are meant to win 32 out of 100 spins then you will win 30 of the first 50 spins.. then 2 of the last 50 spins... then win 30 of the next 50 to then win 2 of th next 50... Stats wise it shows 32/100 wins so RTP is fine sure.. but look how it was given ffs. You start with win.. then you are up you lose.. then you ripped so you win.. then you up so you lose. On and on. There is nothing random into that. In true randomness you could have people up lifetime quite a bunch even if they played a ton just like you could also have a bunch of people that always lose... and quit. That's the key here... people that lose too much quit and the winners since they are up are not profitable to the casino.. so they lose income and keep expenses. Online this thing is crucial so they built a system that tracks players and make sure they maintain their RTP. No one loses too much (up to a certain point because they have another system also to suck you dry when you lose your mind but that's another story). So they have a much bigger play retention if all players are hitting one way or another. Also it makes it nearly impossible for people to be up in the long run. Not because of odds, simply because they make sure it doesn't happen... overall no money is stolen from the "community" but money is stolen from potential "lucky" players and redistributed to the losers to keep them in the game.

The fraud here? Well it's just not random. It's a controled environmnent meant to appear randomn but is in fact a computer algorythm that tracks you and distributed your RTP in a way to entice you into playing more with bigger bets to the last cent (these famous last spin miracles that happen WAY too often). So they manipulate players, turn them into cultist with magical thaughts that always go all in. Good thing casinos don't have to pay for the therapies needed to lower a little the brain damage done.

All in all, you are playing a game versus an AI that exist and make sure things go the way they should be on paper. If you can luck out on a shared live game because you happen to be lucky for real (which in online terms means someone else is being cheated therefor you end up on the winner side for not betting the same). Then the system will catch you back on slots that they control or any other game and if you make alot quick then like everyone else you will increase bet sizes and then your bets have more effect on the live play and you'll progressively lose more and more and you'll need to bet even more to try make it then you'll see.. for yourself.. that balls in our world with current laws of physics... can leave your number slowly go up on the wheel.. slowly roll all around the wheel taking seconds and then slowly land on one of the number you are not betting and sit there like it suddenly weight a ton. It's amazing to see

 

[Borgie]

Deja vu ..
Now where's that thread?