Crystal Palace - resolved (fraudulent claim)

The casino I mentioned ( COOL **** ) changed my password so that they could sneakly change the betting range for Blackjack after my winning only 500 USD more than the amount I made a deposit of which obviously p::ssed them off (lol). The unprofessional part is they forgot to set the password back to my original one after the "secret maintenance" and I was so disappointed to know how low their IQ is regarding their "technical skill". Choose better casino if you have no choice but to play at RTG ( if something that kind happens in any case ). Their low IQ only saddens you. :lolup:
 
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It's very serious that RTG or the casinos can check passwords. I always stayed away from RTG and it seems I made the right decision doing so.

As for player fraud. If I was the casino I would keep his deposit as a handling fee. If you try to steal from casinos you have only yourself to blame.
 
It never occured to me that casino / provider access to passwords was an issue, since they have access to everything anyway. However, in the light of GM's remarks about encryption, this is going to need some explaining away.

If this player IS a fraudster, then he must be the fraudster the most deserving of sympathy of just about any out there. Fraud against Fraud Cloud - how immoral is that? Cloud was ripping players daily in his Rated Player / Extreme days. I recall one player, whose testimony I trust completely, saying Cloud literally stole $1800 straight from his account, claiming he'd lost it playing roulette. This was back when there was no RTG backup of any kind and the player had little recourse to mediation. Now this thief, having built his business bankroll on robbery, much as Golden Palace did, is trying to whitewash his image and "go honest", so that he can take the moral high ground when one of his own kind try to put one over him - how ironic is that?

The mistake this player made was not knowing what he was up against. Cloud wrote the book on fraud. He knows the subject backwards. If you're going to take him on at his own game, at least do a good job of it - not this kack-handed attempt with multiple signups with identical names and passwords. This is kiddy stuff to Cloud. If you're going to fraud a fraudster, do a better job than this.

I don't support fraud in any shape or form and I don't want to swell Bryan's PAB section with illegitimate claims, but I have to say: if you must do it, this is the place. Take on this creep for all the money he stole off his players back when it was REAL "wild west" territory and he could get away with it. If you can get away with it, more power to you. Just DON'T be wasting anyone's time looking for mediation you aren't entitled to. Take it in the gut and move on.

And good luck to you.

OK, hope that Incitement To Rebellion hasn't broken too many forum rules. :)
 
casinomeister said:
Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed :D

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.

Hmm Bryan... Your PAB section is such a great service to the industry, any of us would hate to see it go away! :(

Perhaps you could work out something with a payment processor such as Click2Pay which guarantees payments (to merchants, anyways... Yer a merchant, no? A merchant of good vibes and honest help? :) ) I really do like the idea of charging a nominal deposit (say $5 or $10) to have one's complaint dealt with, and upon confirmation of legitimacy it would be refunded. Or at least for players who have never had a PAB or other contacts with you and are otherwise "unknown".

Just a thought... NETeller may be the most popular payment service for online gaming, but surely they aren't the end-all be-all of the industry.
 
QUOTE I don't support fraud in any shape or form and I don't want to swell Bryan's PAB section with illegitimate claims, but I have to say: if you must do it, this is the place. Take on this creep for all the money he stole off his players back when it was REAL "wild west" territory and he could get away with it. If you can get away with it, more power to you. Just DON'T be wasting anyone's time looking for mediation you aren't entitled to. Take it in the gut and move on.

And good luck to you.

OK, hope that Incitement To Rebellion hasn't broken too many forum rules.UNQUOTE

This may not be a popular view because emotions understandably run high when it comes to rip-off history....but in my book two wrongs rarely make a right - and this sort of approach opens the door to chaos.

There are other ways to put the hurt on crooks.
 
caruso said:
It never occured to me that casino / provider access to passwords was an issue, since they have access to everything anyway. However, in the light of GM's remarks about encryption, this is going to need some explaining away.

It is a basic element of software design to hide passwords from everyone (including the operator) if it is sensitive information. As long as the casinos have the ability to reset the password (so the client can feel safe if he suspect the pw is in the wrong hands) there is absolutely no reason the operators should know it.

I would defitnately feel unsafe if a casino or operator had my pw. I do my best to keep my passwords on my own computer safe and it's pointless if the people working at the operator can read them. And it is a pretty significant security risk for me if they can.

I thought this was a given that all software developers in the gambling business knew this. That is why my jaw dropped when I read that they were comparing passwords. Not that I had that much faith in the integrity of RTG to start with.
 
Freudian said:
...That is why my jaw dropped when I read that they were comparing passwords. Not that I had that much faith in the integrity of RTG to start with.
Put your jaw back on, it's unbecoming of you :D
Let me inquire about this a bit more, it could have been that the player(s) inquired about why their accounts were locked and provided this information voluntarily. This has been ths case in the past concering other player fraud incidents. I can imagine all the potential fraudsters making a note of this *never give out your password to the casino support center :D

Perhaps I just effed it up for the casino fraud departments...oops!
 
casinomeister said:
Put your jaw back on, it's unbecoming of you :D
Let me inquire about this a bit more, it could have been that the player(s) inquired about why their accounts were locked and provided this information voluntarily. This has been ths case in the past concering other player fraud incidents. I can imagine all the potential fraudsters making a note of this *never give out your password to the casino support center :D

Perhaps I just effed it up for the casino fraud departments...oops!

Thats true.

And I certainly hope that if passwords are somehow visible to RTG it is kept to a very small number of trusted employees at RTG and not visible to support staff, licencees etc. In the end if a casino want to screw a player they don't really need a password to do it.

edit: For a player there is a bigger risk with someone having access to your computer (a friend, neighbor or someone using a trojan). So I suggest people use Password Safe
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or a similar program to encrypt passwords on your own computer. Also use firewalls, antivirus-programs. I also use ProcessGuard, which is a low level protection that makes sure malicious software has a much harder time starting and killing processes without my knowledge.
 
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bloody88 said:
I'm suprised though, the person who got me into gambling (Matt) doesn't seem to be on the list. But then again, I don't know his username and I'm not about to ask?!
...........
I'm sure RTG pulled more similarities, such as location, but I live in Northern California. And it's fairly public that there are huge amounts of online gambling here.

Hmmm, Matt? In northern California? That wouldn't be Matt from "Chips for free", would it?
 
I didn't even realize this was a "Cloud" casino. I don't follow the dirsty money trail much anymore with these RTG casinos. Now I would like to see the player get paid.

Maybe Warren can pay with some of the deposit money he stole from me at Rated Player.

Years ago I deposited $500 and won, got paid the winning by check or a couple hundred. Never got my deposit money of $500 back to my credit card. By the time I realized it and decided to take action it was too late to chargeback.
 
It's a really tight week for me, but if I get some time, do you want me to check into the ages old Rated Player issue? I have some old records I might be able to dig up.
 
casinomeister said:
Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed :D

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.

1) I think Neteller is not that easy to charge back.

2) You do not have to enforce a Neteller security deposit. You may put it as an option, whereas a complainer who did put the security deposit, will have a natural priority by you since you know for sure if he's a liar you will get paid for your work.

3) Asking people to say beforehand that they will pay you some part of their money if paid, if straithforward by me, too. It would prefer you to be able to handle complaints for money, than being unable to do them for free.

just my 2 cent
 
Tester said:
1) I think Neteller is not that easy to charge back.

Actually, it's easier than you think. But I don't think I'll indulge us in that arena :D
Tester said:
2) You do not have to enforce a Neteller security deposit. You may put it as an option, whereas a complainer who did put the security deposit, will have a natural priority by you since you know for sure if he's a liar you will get paid for your work.
Yeah but, not everyone has a Neteller acount. And for those that do will start sending me money and I'll start getting all confused, it will end up being played at VP at Maple Casino. Oops!
Tester said:
3) Asking people to say beforehand that they will pay you some part of their money if paid, if straithforward by me, too. It would prefer you to be able to handle complaints for money, than being unable to do them for free..
I don't want the player's money. This could easily be misconstrued that people are paying for my service - and I don't want that. I would rather have them say "cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye." And if I meet them (the lying ones) I get to stick a needle in their eye. That would work for me :D
 
casinomeister said:
Yeah but, not everyone has a Neteller acount. And for those that do will start sending me money and I'll start getting all confused, it will end up being played at VP at Maple Casino. Oops!

There are ways over that. (open an special account, where someone else will be the signature. I hope that for business accounts they have this option.)

or you want me to start copying here self-help books? ;)
 

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