Crystal Palace - resolved (fraudulent claim)

[bloody88]

Crystal Palace
username is bloody88

On December 17th, I signed up at Crystal Palace and deposited $300, got the $300 and had a good time playing some video poker. I hit a royal flush, and cashed out the next day ($2,150 USD). I'm fairly new to online gaming, so I cashout fairly quick to see if they pay.

I got an email saying Withdrawal denied, account locked until I got the forms they wanted back. I thought fair enough, and took my time getting the forms.

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: cashier@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 02:35:09 -0800
Subject: Faxback
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to contacts list | Trash this message | Report phishing | Show original
I'm emailing you scans I just did of the crystal palace faxback form,
a bank statement to show my *current address, and my ID card. Please
unlock my account, thanks!

Ryan McPherson
mcpherson.bro@gmail.com

BTW, my username is Bloody88"
​

-

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: support@crystalpalacecasino.com, security@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 19:56:14 -0800
Subject: How much longer?
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I cashed out on December 18th, and sent in the documents a few days
ago. I never received a response. It'd be really nice if this could be
approved soon, and my account unlocked. Thank you.
Ryan McPherson
​

-

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: support@crystalpalacecasino.com
Cc: security@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:45:18 -0800
Subject: HELP: Havn't received a response
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username: bloody88

I've sent many emails to you, and no response. I won a Royal Flush at
your Casino, and my account was locked, even though I sent in the
forms you requested. I'm beginning to think that you lock winning
accounts? But I'm not sure, I know it's the holiday season, so you
might be very busy.

But PLEASE, unlock my account!

Attached are the documents *again*

Ryan McPherson
mcpherson.bro@gmail.com
​

So no response, I've waited a long time now, and finally last week I found this forum and found that Crystal Palace was last on a probation. I'm going to leave this thread up for a day or two, see if I get any response, and they file a Bitch and Groan with the Casinomeister.

I liked Crystal, and would play again, but not if it takes this much work to get paid. Crystal Palace: save a customer!

 

[mucullus]

Hi Ryan,

I also think you have waited more than enough for your withdrawal being processed. Moreover the casino's request of a faxback form doesn't really give a reason to lock your account.
Montana Overseas is the licensor for RTG casinos and they handle all complaints. Try to file a complaint with them, if you followed all the casino's terms and conditions you should get paid. Have some patience with Montana, the dispute process can take 2-3 weeks.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[The Dude]

Hi bloody88,

And welcome to the forum. I can perhaps speed up the process - fill out a PAB here:
Old URL

It's odd that they seem to be ignoring you since they are pretty good at letting you know what they believe you have done wrong. Double check your spam filters.

 

[The Dude]

Hi bloody88,

Turns out they've connected you to a fraud ring of 12 other accounts. I've been given the user names of some of them, and I can check this out with RTG. They will be able to confirm this.

Or should I go on with this?

And by the way, there are a number of casino operators reading this who are probably checking their player records as I type.

Again, if you want me to leave this alone, I will. But if you feel you're innocent of player fraud, I'll pursue this. The choice is yours.

 

[bloody88]

!

Fraud? Wha', how? I'm a real person! I have quite a few friends who gamble online (that's why I'm here), but fraud! We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay. I'm pretty darn sure I don't have 12 gambling friends though. Please let me know what they are going off of, I wasn't aware that having friends was a bad thing. We never even claim referals!

Casinomeister, can you please get more info on this. LMK if it'd be better to take this convo privatly, I'd rather not be responsible for putting other people's gambling information online. I'm sure you understand. Also, thank you, and ask them why they won't even reply to my emails!

BTW: I'm pretty sure I turned off spam filters awhile ago for this very reason (making sure I received every email).
And Also BTW: I'm not at home, so if my IP is different - understand.

 

[bloody88]

Casino Operators

Also, I use this username at a few casino's, so if I'm in the wrong, I apologize, and I understand if you lock my account. But if this is a misunderstanding, please don't lock my account over this!

 

[bloody88]

Filters

You may be right, I was wrong about SPAM filters, looks like Gmail doesn't even have a setting. But I still havn't had a problem with any other casino. But like I said before, I havn't been doing this long.

 

[The Dude]

Fraud? Wha', how? I'm a real person! I have quite a few friends who gamble online (that's why I'm here), but fraud! We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay. I'm pretty darn sure I don't have 12 gambling friends though. Please let me know what they are going off of, I wasn't aware that having friends was a bad thing. We never even claim referals!

Casinomeister, can you please get more info on this. LMK if it'd be better to take this convo privatly, I'd rather not be responsible for putting other people's gambling information online. I'm sure you understand. Also, thank you, and ask them why they won't even reply to my emails!

BTW: I'm pretty sure I turned off spam filters awhile ago for this very reason (making sure I received every email).
And Also BTW: I'm not at home, so if my IP is different - understand.

Okay, I'll check into this tomorrow. It may take a couple of days to get an answer since we're in different time zones. Hopefully, things will turn out to be cool.

 

[bloody88]

Thanks casinomeister. It's nice to see a neutral party.

Again, if there's any sensitive information, please email me personally mcpherson.bro@gmail.com
I don't want that to sound like hiding, you can of course post here a warning to all casino's if I am in the wrong, I just don't want too sensitive info getting out if it's not mine to give.

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

 

[The Dude]

Thanks casinomeister. It's nice to see a neutral party...

But my neutrality ends when the fraud begins. I feel obligated to hoist fraudulent players up by the thumbs. That's my prerogative. I do the same to dickhead casinos. I hope there was merely a misunderstanding between you and Crystal Palace.

I should have an answer from RTG by tomorrow. Hope my time hasn't been wasted.

 

[caruso]

We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay.

Neeeeeeeeeeew no no don't even think of doing that. P2P Neteller transactions are like a green light to any screw ball operator out there. The info will **cough** find its way back to the casino, the "audit" starts and all of a sudden you're a "fraudster" doing God knows what. Never do those P2P transactions, not even to your mum.

 

[Black21Jack]

But my neutrality ends when the fraud begins. I feel obligated to hoist fraudulent players up by the thumbs. That's my prerogative. I do the same to dickhead casinos. I hope there was merely a misunderstanding between you and Crystal Palace.

I should have an answer from RTG by tomorrow. Hope my time hasn't been wasted.

I just wanted to jump in and ask a question. What exactly does a casino consider a fraudulent player? Is it when a person opens multiple accounts with different names so that they can claim many bonuses? Is it when the player opens multiple accounts wins money at the casino, makes successful withdrawals and then charges back? Other than these two examples I really do not see how a player can defraud a casino even if they open multiple accounts under other names. I have always been curious about this.

 

[virtualted]

In one case we had a player funding other players accounts through Neteller, and paying them to play with his money in the casino, to take advantage of certain bonuses. He was also signed up as an affiliate and getting paid to send the players in.

Player takes big bonuses and plays slot machines where you can build up credits, than right before the machine is to pay off. They make a small cash deposit hit the pay off and cash out, "claiming they are entitled to full amount, and no play through because they did not take a bonus.

But you are right other than these, and the few you mentioned, I have not come across many fraudulent players

 

[bloody88]

Wow

That bad? Wow, Crystal Palace probably does think I'm fraud. I only got into this because my friend Matt told me online casino's actually pay. He owed me some money anways, but it's still cash? Why does Neteller offer peer to peer if the casino's will ban you! Neteller even charges a fee (almost 2%), so actually Matt owed me a tad more . I now know a few people who do this, but I havn't even done a referal. I wasn't even aware you could make money off telling a friend.

So bottom line is, casino's can see my Neteller!? Doesn't Neteller have a privacy law? Can they see my bank account too?

 

[chuchu59]

In one case we had a player funding other players accounts through Neteller, and paying them to play with his money in the casino, to take advantage of certain bonuses. He was also signed up as an affiliate and getting paid to send the players in.

Player takes big bonuses and plays slot machines where you can build up credits, than right before the machine is to pay off. They make a small cash deposit hit the pay off and cash out, "claiming they are entitled to full amount, and no play through because they did not take a bonus.

But you are right other than these, and the few you mentioned, I have not come across many fraudulent players

Virtualted,

Do you mean that the player uses his neteller to fund other players' casino accounts or their neteller accounts? big difference,you know since I honestly cannot understand how the latter could be made known to the casinos.

 

[universexf6]

Re:

Sty away from Crystal Palace. It's waste of time playing there. I was paid
finally thanks to RTG but they didn't pay me the international call fee which
ended in the total waste of time with their "support".

 

[The Dude]

I just wanted to jump in and ask a question. What exactly does a casino consider a fraudulent player? Is it when a person opens multiple accounts with different names so that they can claim many bonuses? Is it when the player opens multiple accounts wins money at the casino, makes successful withdrawals and then charges back? Other than these two examples I really do not see how a player can defraud a casino even if they open multiple accounts under other names. I have always been curious about this.

Fraudulent play comes in many shapes and colors. One of the most common instances is when a single person (or a small group) takes on the identity of a number of players in order to take advantage of signup bonuses through fraudulent means. This is done by photoshopping fake IDs or utility bills, or just pretending you are someone else. Fraudsters are usually caught when it's discovered they are using the same computer(s) or sharing Neteller accounts. It happens a lot.

The casinos can only see the Neteller account number and Neteller email address. That's about it.

Virtualted stated that he doesn't see too much of this, that's good. Unfortunately, I have. This is probably because I don't deal with only "Virtual Casino" players, but all of them. Much of my PAB time is sucked up by these sorts of claims. And I have kicked around the idea to either shut down the PAB or charge a fee. But I don't feel that would be in the players' best interest. There are still many players who have legitimate grievances - and to leave them on their own, or to charge a fee would be out of the question. That is something I don't believe in.

But in most cases, if a player is not getting paid by a "large" casino, there is usually a pretty damn good reason behind it.

 

[Black21Jack]

Much of my PAB time is sucked up by these sorts of claims. And I have kicked around the idea to either shut down the PAB or charge a fee. But I don't feel that would be in the players' best interest. There are still many players who have legitimate grievances - and to leave them on their own, or to charge a fee would be out of the question. That is something I don't believe in.

Maybe you could charge a fee that would be like a refundable security deposit via Neteller. When the problem is resolved, or the case closed you could refund the fee to the players Neteller if the complaint was legitimate. This may prevent the fraudsters from attempting to use the PAB for their bogus claims. Just an idea.

 

[The Dude]

Maybe you could charge a fee that would be like a refundable security deposit via Neteller. When the problem is resolved, or the case closed you could refund the fee to the players Neteller if the complaint was legitimate. This may prevent the fraudsters from attempting to use the PAB for their bogus claims. Just an idea.

Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.

 

[Black21Jack]

Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.

I thought about that after I posted. It would just be added headache for you. It is really sad that there are idiots out there who ruin things like this for everyone, and have you thinking about discontinuing the service especially when it is something you are doing free of charge with no benefit to you really.

 

[Vesuvio]

I feel a sudden urge to play devil's advocate here

In one case we had a player funding other players accounts through Neteller, and paying them to play with his money in the casino, to take advantage of certain bonuses. He was also signed up as an affiliate and getting paid to send the players in.

I don't see what's really wrong with this (except perhaps the affiliate part). It would be better to transfer the money to the others in a way you couldn't see (so you don't have an excuse not to pay), but these are genuine players playing at your casino. Why should how they finance their play concern you?

Player takes big bonuses and plays slot machines where you can build up credits, than right before the machine is to pay off. They make a small cash deposit hit the pay off and cash out, "claiming they are entitled to full amount, and no play through because they did not take a bonus.

These slots seem badly designed, but they're quite correct to claim they're entitled to the full amount as they didn't take a bonus with their deposit. Why don't you just ban play with bonuses on these particular slots? As I remember, you used this as an excuse for the reprehensible clause in your terms and conditions that limits the cash-in amount of a player even if they don't receive a bonus (something which means you'll be able to take back/steal the majority of any big win by any player at your casino who's ever taken a bonus).

 

[The Dude]

I thought about that after I posted. It would just be added headache for you. It is really sad that there are idiots out there who ruin things like this for everyone, and have you thinking about discontinuing the service especially when it is something you are doing free of charge with no benefit to you really.

Yeah, but after I let off some steam (like in the forum ) I feel much better. I do benefit from the PAB by knowing that I have assisted countless real authentic gripes. And some of these "bitches" have bought me a DVD or two. So that's cool.

I recover $10,000 dollars for them, I get a DVD! hey hey!!

Oops, derailing a thread in my own forum, sorry...

 

[The Dude]

Word back from RTG:

...everything leads to the casino's contention that this is a fraudulent player...there is just too much coincidence in the similarity with at least 10, maybe more, players in the casino that we could find....This appears to be one of those collusion rings we have seen.

So it looks like you are entitiled to your deposit back only. The casino has provided me with the user names of these players by the way. I'll be checking out the forum for these as well.

Thanks for wasting my time bloody88.

 

[jetset]

QUOTE So it looks like you are entitiled to your deposit back only.UNQUOTE

This raises an interesting point, i.m.o. because if scammers are exposed and merely have their deposits returned, where is the deterrent to them trying it on again elsewhere - they have nothing to lose. Of course, I guess the fact that they are probably flagged across a range of sites as being crooks cramps their style somewhat...

 

[The Dude]

QUOTE So it looks like you are entitiled to your deposit back only.UNQUOTE

This raises an interesting point, i.m.o. because if scammers are exposed and merely have their deposits returned, where is the deterrent to them trying it on again elsewhere - they have nothing to lose. Of course, I guess the fact that they are probably flagged across a range of sites as being crooks cramps their style somewhat...

Yeah, their style gets cramped. Normally, I contact most everyone I know (I know a lot of people), when it's a serious scam.

I also invoice fraudsters who "Pitch a Bitch" Euro 500 - which is legally binding. If they are in the EU and try not to pay, they may find themselves in deep shit.

Bloody88, anything thing you want to say before I change your user group from "registered user" to "fraudster"??