Crystal Palace - resolved (fraudulent claim)

bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
Crystal Palace
username is bloody88

On December 17th, I signed up at Crystal Palace and deposited $300, got the $300 and had a good time playing some video poker. I hit a royal flush, and cashed out the next day ($2,150 USD). I'm fairly new to online gaming, so I cashout fairly quick to see if they pay.

I got an email saying Withdrawal denied, account locked until I got the forms they wanted back. I thought fair enough, and took my time getting the forms.

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: cashier@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 02:35:09 -0800
Subject: Faxback
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Add sender to contacts list | Trash this message | Report phishing | Show original
I'm emailing you scans I just did of the crystal palace faxback form,
a bank statement to show my *current address, and my ID card. Please
unlock my account, thanks!

Ryan McPherson
mcpherson.bro@gmail.com

BTW, my username is Bloody88"
-

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: support@crystalpalacecasino.com, security@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 19:56:14 -0800
Subject: How much longer?
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I cashed out on December 18th, and sent in the documents a few days
ago. I never received a response. It'd be really nice if this could be
approved soon, and my account unlocked. Thank you.
Ryan McPherson
-

From: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Ryan McPherson <mcpherson.bro@gmail.com>
To: support@crystalpalacecasino.com
Cc: security@crystalpalacecasino.com
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:45:18 -0800
Subject: HELP: Havn't received a response
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username: bloody88

I've sent many emails to you, and no response. I won a Royal Flush at
your Casino, and my account was locked, even though I sent in the
forms you requested. I'm beginning to think that you lock winning
accounts? But I'm not sure, I know it's the holiday season, so you
might be very busy.

But PLEASE, unlock my account!

Attached are the documents *again*

Ryan McPherson
mcpherson.bro@gmail.com


So no response, I've waited a long time now, and finally last week I found this forum and found that Crystal Palace was last on a probation. I'm going to leave this thread up for a day or two, see if I get any response, and they file a Bitch and Groan with the Casinomeister.

I liked Crystal, and would play again, but not if it takes this much work to get paid. Crystal Palace: save a customer!
 

mucullus

Experienced Member
Hi Ryan,

I also think you have waited more than enough for your withdrawal being processed. Moreover the casino's request of a faxback form doesn't really give a reason to lock your account.
Montana Overseas is the licensor for RTG casinos and they handle all complaints. Try to file a complaint with them, if you followed all the casino's terms and conditions you should get paid. Have some patience with Montana, the dispute process can take 2-3 weeks.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Hi bloody88,

And welcome to the forum. I can perhaps speed up the process - fill out a PAB here:
http://www.casinomeister.com/problems_cpalace.html

It's odd that they seem to be ignoring you since they are pretty good at letting you know what they believe you have done wrong. Double check your spam filters.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Hi bloody88,

Turns out they've connected you to a fraud ring of 12 other accounts. I've been given the user names of some of them, and I can check this out with RTG. They will be able to confirm this.

Or should I go on with this?

And by the way, there are a number of casino operators reading this who are probably checking their player records as I type.

Again, if you want me to leave this alone, I will. But if you feel you're innocent of player fraud, I'll pursue this. The choice is yours.
 

bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
!

Fraud? Wha', how? I'm a real person! I have quite a few friends who gamble online (that's why I'm here), but fraud! We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay. I'm pretty darn sure I don't have 12 gambling friends though. Please let me know what they are going off of, I wasn't aware that having friends was a bad thing. We never even claim referals!

Casinomeister, can you please get more info on this. LMK if it'd be better to take this convo privatly, I'd rather not be responsible for putting other people's gambling information online. I'm sure you understand. Also, thank you, and ask them why they won't even reply to my emails!

BTW: I'm pretty sure I turned off spam filters awhile ago for this very reason (making sure I received every email).
And Also BTW: I'm not at home, so if my IP is different - understand.
 
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bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
Casino Operators

Also, I use this username at a few casino's, so if I'm in the wrong, I apologize, and I understand if you lock my account. But if this is a misunderstanding, please don't lock my account over this!
 

bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
Filters

You may be right, I was wrong about SPAM filters, looks like Gmail doesn't even have a setting. But I still havn't had a problem with any other casino. But like I said before, I havn't been doing this long.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
bloody88 said:
Fraud? Wha', how? I'm a real person! I have quite a few friends who gamble online (that's why I'm here), but fraud! We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay. I'm pretty darn sure I don't have 12 gambling friends though. Please let me know what they are going off of, I wasn't aware that having friends was a bad thing. We never even claim referals!

Casinomeister, can you please get more info on this. LMK if it'd be better to take this convo privatly, I'd rather not be responsible for putting other people's gambling information online. I'm sure you understand. Also, thank you, and ask them why they won't even reply to my emails!

BTW: I'm pretty sure I turned off spam filters awhile ago for this very reason (making sure I received every email).
And Also BTW: I'm not at home, so if my IP is different - understand.
Okay, I'll check into this tomorrow. It may take a couple of days to get an answer since we're in different time zones. Hopefully, things will turn out to be cool.
 

bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
Thanks casinomeister. It's nice to see a neutral party.

Again, if there's any sensitive information, please email me personally mcpherson.bro@gmail.com
I don't want that to sound like hiding, you can of course post here a warning to all casino's if I am in the wrong, I just don't want too sensitive info getting out if it's not mine to give.

I'll look forward to hearing from you.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
bloody88 said:
Thanks casinomeister. It's nice to see a neutral party...
But my neutrality ends when the fraud begins. I feel obligated to hoist fraudulent players up by the thumbs. That's my prerogative. I do the same to dickhead casinos. I hope there was merely a misunderstanding between you and Crystal Palace.

I should have an answer from RTG by tomorrow. Hope my time hasn't been wasted.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
bloody88 said:
We've only sent *some* funds to each other with NETeller, and NETeller said that's okay.
Neeeeeeeeeeew no no don't even think of doing that. P2P Neteller transactions are like a green light to any screw ball operator out there. The info will **cough** find its way back to the casino, the "audit" starts and all of a sudden you're a "fraudster" doing God knows what. Never do those P2P transactions, not even to your mum.
 

Black21Jack

Dormant account
casinomeister said:
But my neutrality ends when the fraud begins. I feel obligated to hoist fraudulent players up by the thumbs. That's my prerogative. I do the same to dickhead casinos. I hope there was merely a misunderstanding between you and Crystal Palace.

I should have an answer from RTG by tomorrow. Hope my time hasn't been wasted.
I just wanted to jump in and ask a question. What exactly does a casino consider a fraudulent player? Is it when a person opens multiple accounts with different names so that they can claim many bonuses? Is it when the player opens multiple accounts wins money at the casino, makes successful withdrawals and then charges back? Other than these two examples I really do not see how a player can defraud a casino even if they open multiple accounts under other names. I have always been curious about this.
 

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
In one case we had a player funding other players accounts through Neteller, and paying them to play with his money in the casino, to take advantage of certain bonuses. He was also signed up as an affiliate and getting paid to send the players in.

Player takes big bonuses and plays slot machines where you can build up credits, than right before the machine is to pay off. They make a small cash deposit hit the pay off and cash out, "claiming they are entitled to full amount, and no play through because they did not take a bonus.

But you are right other than these, and the few you mentioned, I have not come across many fraudulent players
 

bloody88

Banned User - Player Fraud
Wow

That bad? Wow, Crystal Palace probably does think I'm fraud. I only got into this because my friend Matt told me online casino's actually pay. He owed me some money anways, but it's still cash? Why does Neteller offer peer to peer if the casino's will ban you! Neteller even charges a fee (almost 2%), so actually Matt owed me a tad more :) . I now know a few people who do this, but I havn't even done a referal. I wasn't even aware you could make money off telling a friend.

So bottom line is, casino's can see my Neteller!? Doesn't Neteller have a privacy law? Can they see my bank account too?
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
virtualted said:
In one case we had a player funding other players accounts through Neteller, and paying them to play with his money in the casino, to take advantage of certain bonuses. He was also signed up as an affiliate and getting paid to send the players in.

Player takes big bonuses and plays slot machines where you can build up credits, than right before the machine is to pay off. They make a small cash deposit hit the pay off and cash out, "claiming they are entitled to full amount, and no play through because they did not take a bonus.

But you are right other than these, and the few you mentioned, I have not come across many fraudulent players
Virtualted,

Do you mean that the player uses his neteller to fund other players' casino accounts or their neteller accounts? big difference,you know since I honestly cannot understand how the latter could be made known to the casinos.
 

universexf6

Dormant account
Re:

Sty away from Crystal Palace. It's waste of time playing there. I was paid
finally thanks to RTG but they didn't pay me the international call fee which
ended in the total waste of time with their "support".
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Black21Jack said:
I just wanted to jump in and ask a question. What exactly does a casino consider a fraudulent player? Is it when a person opens multiple accounts with different names so that they can claim many bonuses? Is it when the player opens multiple accounts wins money at the casino, makes successful withdrawals and then charges back? Other than these two examples I really do not see how a player can defraud a casino even if they open multiple accounts under other names. I have always been curious about this.
Fraudulent play comes in many shapes and colors. One of the most common instances is when a single person (or a small group) takes on the identity of a number of players in order to take advantage of signup bonuses through fraudulent means. This is done by photoshopping fake IDs or utility bills, or just pretending you are someone else. Fraudsters are usually caught when it's discovered they are using the same computer(s) or sharing Neteller accounts. It happens a lot.

The casinos can only see the Neteller account number and Neteller email address. That's about it.

Virtualted stated that he doesn't see too much of this, that's good. Unfortunately, I have. This is probably because I don't deal with only "Virtual Casino" players, but all of them. Much of my PAB time is sucked up by these sorts of claims. And I have kicked around the idea to either shut down the PAB or charge a fee. But I don't feel that would be in the players' best interest. There are still many players who have legitimate grievances - and to leave them on their own, or to charge a fee would be out of the question. That is something I don't believe in.

But in most cases, if a player is not getting paid by a "large" casino, there is usually a pretty damn good reason behind it.
 

Black21Jack

Dormant account
casinomeister said:
Much of my PAB time is sucked up by these sorts of claims. And I have kicked around the idea to either shut down the PAB or charge a fee. But I don't feel that would be in the players' best interest. There are still many players who have legitimate grievances - and to leave them on their own, or to charge a fee would be out of the question. That is something I don't believe in.
Maybe you could charge a fee that would be like a refundable security deposit via Neteller. When the problem is resolved, or the case closed you could refund the fee to the players Neteller if the complaint was legitimate. This may prevent the fraudsters from attempting to use the PAB for their bogus claims. Just an idea.
 
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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Black21Jack said:
Maybe you could charge a fee that would be like a refundable security deposit via Neteller. When the problem is resolved, or the case closed you could refund the fee to the players Neteller if the complaint was legitimate. This may prevent the fraudsters from attempting to use the PAB for their bogus claims. Just an idea.
Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed :D

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.
 

Black21Jack

Dormant account
casinomeister said:
Sounds like a good idea, but with my luck I would unknowingly accept $$ from a fraudster, and when I would discover the fraud, he would charge back the Neteller payment and I would be screwed :D

Besides, not everyone has a Neteller account.
I thought about that after I posted. It would just be added headache for you. It is really sad that there are idiots out there who ruin things like this for everyone, and have you thinking about discontinuing the service especially when it is something you are doing free of charge with no benefit to you really.
 
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