Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[ChopleyIOM]

Surprisingly enough @ChopleyIOM I have agreed with virtually everything that you have posted over the last few weeks on this thread, but I disagree slightly on this one.
For me the visuals that this gives, that its pure science, nothing political and in no way party influenced is far greater than if BoJo and co had been there.
BoJo has made a meal of this, though I dont think anyone had much hope of coming through this smelling of roses and he was always on to a loser, but on this one I think he is right to get the science front and centre and take away from the past political f@@k ups that have been happening throughout the pandemic.

The thing is @cncas2123 I don't think that's the reason he wasn't there. Because the truth is this is all political now, and whilst it is right to be led by the science and for policy to be guided by the science, the decisions that are taken are taken by the government, the advisors advise, politicians decide.

A strong, confident leader who was on top of his brief would have been there to support his advisors and make the case to the British people why it was so important for them to listen, especially when we're staring down the barrel of another national lockdown with all the accompanying devastation that brings. (Economic, mental health, keeping families and friends apart, isolating the vulnerable, putting domestic abuse victims at increased risk etc.)

Johnson wasn't there because he doesn't want to be there, and because everyone knows he's terrible at being a leader, and because he has the moral authority of a dog with the shits caught short on a croquet lawn, and because his gameshow host shtick doesn't wash in such serious times, and because he blew apart his government's authority to tell anyone what to do when he ordered everyone to stand behind Dominic 'Eye Test' Cummings, despite the obvious and visible damage it was doing to societal cohesion in the face of the pandemic.

Nicola Sturgeon stands up every single day and gives a press conference, she supports her advisors and she takes questions, she explains what they're doing and why they're doing it, and makes the moral case for people to follow what she is telling them to do. That's a leader who understands that leaders need to be seen, and heard, and to keep in contact with the population they represent.

Johnson has none of that, he knows it, and his party knows it. His performances at PMQs are shambolic, and his performance at the Parliamentary Select Committee last week was embarrassing, no wonder they're keeping him out of sight.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Earlier there was a tweet from the 'NHS', which was pulled down faster than you can say 'hoax'

Cryptic in nature but likely fake, it gave a checklist of what to prep in case of evac!

View attachment 142085



So make of that what you will. But me thinks someone's trying to rile people up as everyone's kind of one edge as it is. Fake News!

Yep, I have it on good authority it was more to do with flooding possibilities as we approach winter. Nothing to do with COVID.

 

[Slottery]

Dunno what different countries keep limits to "Action needed" (start to hate that phrase), but just to repeat myself, it just seem to happen that lockdown help that limited time when people are locked down and don't have any contact to outside world. Some of these best succeed lockdown places on springtime, are now quite fcked compare to others who did worse in spring, i think.

Malta as small island was really easy to restrict, close airport and you have no new people here and island been almost empty (which have been nice for many from individual point of view as no all places crowded like normally but quite horrible for many who make their living), but didn't solve the problem for long:



Other country which one of most strict restrictions in Europe (hard to compare every single country but Czeck Republic was at least in many news used as an example about how to control COVID) getting quite huge spike in their numbers lately as well.

The general quarantine applies to every individual located in the Czech Republic. People are required to stay home, except for going to work and carrying out essential duties. Under the quarantine, free movement is prohibited EXCEPT FOR:

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There still is zero signs this going away itself. This has made itself huge hit in whole world which unfortunately start to look somewhere that everything else in world can happen and it's normal that peole pass away but every COVID positive death is a catastrophe and need to be avoided at any cost (other deaths are ok, as long COVID not included), some "news" sources seem to keep this kind of competition between countries which also sounds weird, assuming that every single country would like to get rid of this asap and not looking to win "COVID World Cup".

Wouldn't bring it to politician either, this kind of pandemic should united population instead of anything else, it's an equal danger for all political views and in many countries government and opposition have been having much less argues than normally as against this everybody probably share a common goal, get rid of it, just no idea how... so maybe have to admit it's gonna be our guest from now on and live with that.

 

[dionysus]

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[pinnit2014]

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Masks for ever Hope not.

I made the mistake of going to the shop, at school lunch hour, and being flanked by about 40 reprobates from the local secondary. One of the them, in a semi coherent voice, went 'Oi Pal, you look stupid with that on' (for the record, i think i wear it quite sexily). Giving the middle finger was instinct but quickly regretted when, because the queue was so long, i was subject to verbal abuse (good job i'm used to it) and when, upon leaving, telling the 5 other mates outside 'that prick did...'

Next time i will nod in agreement.

 

[dionysus]

You'd be hard pressed here to find that; the teens would all have to be in masks as well or tossed
Thuggy things aint they

 

[ternur]

 

[goatwack]

They look like they have one brain cell between them

 

[cncas2123]

They look like they have one brain cell between them

I think you might be a bit generous on that one..... it looks like they are hunting for their first one.

 

[dealer wins]

Wearing a mask is literally the same as taping a sponge on your car's front bumper to protect you in a collision.

 

[ternur]

Wearing a mask is literally the same as taping a sponge on your car's front bumper to protect you in a collision.

It doesn't take away the comical effect of people crying about their freedoms and liberties like nitwits. It's not about the masks, it could be about anything really. The same brainiacs would act the same way.

Me, myself and I.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Florida man... (and woman)

 

[mack341]

This article is one of the best I've read so far [the writer is an nhs GP too]:

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"And in two weeks’ time, or whenever we disconnect the ‘circuit breaker’, the coronavirus will surge back. This time, we will be facing its effects during the flu season, when many more people will be compromised by flu and even less able to fight Covid-19.

The optimum time for dealing with this novel coronavirus has already passed. Since there is little feasible chance of a safe and effective vaccine any time soon, we should have been striving for mass immunity among the healthy population.

If the majority of people who are unlikely to suffer much ill effect could catch the infection, and get over it safely, they would be much less likely to transmit it to the vulnerable during the winter.

This strategy goes by the ugly name of herd immunity, an unfeeling name for the most compassionate policy.

I am certainly not belittling the severity of Covid-19. It is more contagious than common flu and it attacks the body in more varied ways. This is a scary disease. But we cannot fight it with fear."

 

[Slottery]

It doesn't take away the comical effect of people crying about their freedoms and liberties like nitwits. It's not about the masks, it could be about anything really. The same brainiacs would act the same way.

Me, myself and I.

Have no problems with wearing masks, even it hear to feel bit stupid to put your mask on when going to toilet in pub and come in with mask and wait to be seated and table service only. When in your table you are free to be without mask and shout for tv when watching sport... Maybe scient have found that virus spreads much more when standing up instead of sitting, in chapter "Good to know".

Some of these restrictions in different places are bit funny and mixed and even might give you feeling that they have nothing to do with science but somebody just figured out how panicking people feel comfortable enough to enter shops to by food (there you get fine if you don't wear one or actually you don't get in to shop or bus) and others who feel that wearing mask is taking away their right of humanity, still can cope.

 

[Slottery]

I am certainly not belittling the severity of Covid-19. It is more contagious than common flu and it attacks the body in more varied ways. This is a scary disease. But we cannot fight it with fear."

Amen.

 

[geordiecolin]

 

[geordiecolin]

 

[dionysus]

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[dealer wins]

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Biggest load of bollocks I have read today!

 

[Slottery]

Biggest load of bollocks I have read today!

it will not be enough to stop unnecessary deaths

Would categorize little bit different things to "unnecessary deaths" category...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This article is one of the best I've read so far [the writer is an nhs GP too]:

'If the majority of people who are unlikely to suffer much ill effect could catch the infection, and get over it safely, they would be much less likely to transmit it to the vulnerable during the winter.

This strategy goes by the ugly name of herd immunity, an unfeeling name for the most compassionate policy.'

That is genuinely dangerous nonsense, and it flat out doesn't work for Covid-19.

There are two ways to achieve herd immunity, and those are (1) A vaccine is developed and enough people are vaccinated to effectively wipe out the disease (a measles style scenario) (2) Sufficient people get infected and remain immune to the disease to make transmission between people very rare.

Obviously (1) is off the table until we have a vaccine - but that's definitely the best hope.

The problem with (2) is that:

(a) It's increasingly looking like being infected with Covid-19 and surviving doesn't even confer immunity for any significant period of time. i.e. People who'd had it and recovered, could still catch it again and spread it again.

and

(b) Even if it did, there's the sheer number of people who'd need to be infected for it work, the best estimates for Covid-19 put it at about 70% of people would need to be infected and survive, are we really advocating a policy that would require TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE in the UK to catch Covid-19? Even with a mortality rate of around 1%, that's an awful lot of dead people, and that's before we start to factor in the approx 8-10% of people who go on to suffer long term negative health effects. (Long-Covid, which can affect people of all age groups.)

The NHS would collapse, literally collapse, under the weight of Covid-19 victims, plus you'd have to add on all the additional people that would die because they couldn't be treated for their illnesses either.

 

[mack341]

'If the majority of people who are unlikely to suffer much ill effect could catch the infection, and get over it safely, they would be much less likely to transmit it to the vulnerable during the winter.

This strategy goes by the ugly name of herd immunity, an unfeeling name for the most compassionate policy.'

That is genuinely dangerous nonsense, and it flat out doesn't work for Covid-19.

Really ??? looks like herd immunity has more or less worked in sweden, or do you know otherwise?

can you back up these statements of yours regarding immunity, and in section b) of your post?

[Any links or quotes ?]

The article was about the 'circuit breaker' lockdown idea, which is where we are now, any opinion on this?

or her point " And in two weeks’ time, or whenever we disconnect the ‘circuit breaker’, the coronavirus will surge back. This time, we will be facing its effects during the flu season, when many more people will be compromised by flu and even less able to fight Covid-19."?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Eh? Sweden absolutely hasn't gone for herd immunity, they've tried to suppress the virus using different means to us (i.e. they've never imposed a lockdown), but what they absolutely haven't done is sanctioned or pursued a policy of herd immunity.

Some reading here on herd immunity, what it is and how it's achieved -

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It's super important to understand Sweden are trying to control and contain the virus in all sorts of ways, absolutely not, 'Ahhh fuck it, let it just do whatever it wants'.

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[mack341]

Eh? Sweden absolutely hasn't gone for herd immunity, they've tried to suppress the virus using different means to us (i.e. they've never imposed a lockdown), but what they absolutely haven't done is sanctioned or pursued a policy of herd immunity.

Some reading here on what it is and how it's achieved -

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This is actually one of the headlines in the Times today, but paywalled:

Sweden beating coronavirus with herd immunity, expert claims


"Evidence is mounting that Sweden has beaten the coronavirus epidemic with herd immunity rather than lockdowns, according to a renowned expert on the spread of disease.

Sweden’s infection rate has remained low and stable at a time when other European countries are facing a strong resurgence.


In Britain there are 69 cases per 100,000 people compared to just 28 for every 100,000 in

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which did not implement stringent lockdown measures this spring.

The infection rate in France is almost seven times higher than in Sweden and the virus is ten times more prevalent in Spain, both countries that implemented strict lockdowns.

Kim Sneppen, professor of biocomplexity at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, an expert in the spread of the virus, has concluded that....

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The term 'herd immunity' and sweden is all over the internet, the concept seems a total surprise to you?

We know they still followed social distancing and handwashing etc..., the whole point is they didn't impose a lockdown other than a few minor things, and their case rate and deaths are better than the uk and elsewhere with stricter lockdowns?

The mayoclinic article you linked doesn't mention T-cells?

 

[dealer wins]

Sweden got it right, like I predicted back on the day of our 1st lockdown on this very thread.

We fecked up, and it comes at the cost of millions of jobs, and 500,000 lives doomed through the NHS not treating cancers, heart conditions etc