Question Coral progressive jackpot won but no payout

Nifty29

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The problem with such an error is the impact it has on players. It would be different if it involved a relatively small amount, but you had players all being told by the software that they had won the progressive.

This has happend before, with a bingo game in a daily paper. Due to a misprint, vast numbers of people all got the last number needed on the same day, and thousands of people were claiming the jackpot. The newspaper did manage to rely on the "malfunction voids play" rule, but the accident revealed to everyone that the game just had to be "rigged", and that the daily numbers were not random as in a proper bingo game, but that the winning cards were all predetermined, with the number sequence having been rigged to let a particular card win.

The newspaper won the battle, but lost the war. Now everyone understands that all these kinds of games are "rigged" from the outset, and can be rigged to prevent a big prize from ever being won, something that bit another paper in the ass when they never had to pay out their jackpot during an entire run of such a promotion. It was seen as rigged from the outset so that the paper would never be paying out it's million quid. In reality, it was probably down to the one card predetermined to win the million not being played.

People will still ask how an update can cause such a specific glitch as the progressive display showing a win, but without an amount being shown.

Legal action will be a problem, since they would only be able to claim "£NaN", an amount that cannot be determined. Also, after it is won, the pool is re seeded, so exactly WHO gets the big one, and who just claims the re seeded value.

Maybe too much was entrusted to the client side, and it was here that the erroneous animation got triggered, despite no instruction to that effect coming from the server, hence the NaN as after playing the animation, there was no pool value to display as the server had not sent a progressive win.

The client side should have checked for NaN before playing the progressive win clip, such check would have served as an error trap for a highly embarrassing glitch possibilty.

I ALWAYS take sugar in my tea, so I can't see myself liking this game:p

.....and you base your "legal problem" assessment on.....?

Nothing you said is relevant. We're talking about a random slot machine that COULD pay two jackpots in an hour. There is nothing RIGGED about it. Its nothing remotely like newspaper bingo games etc.

It was a glitch....they happen.

The least the casino should do is provide some compensation.
 

vinylweatherman

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.....and you base your "legal problem" assessment on.....?

Nothing you said is relevant. We're talking about a random slot machine that COULD pay two jackpots in an hour. There is nothing RIGGED about it. Its nothing remotely like newspaper bingo games etc.

It was a glitch....they happen.

The least the casino should do is provide some compensation.

Quite, but the response of the casino seemed to be "it has to be a glitch", even before it had any idea what was going on. If casinos take this attitude, how can they expect players to believe the games are 100% random. With random, some pretty freakish coincidences can happen, but it seems that casino operators are just as bad as superstitious players when unusual coincidences strike, or they already know that it is IMPOSSIBLE because of their knowledge of the inner workings of the games.

It seems the coincidence that got their interest was an abnormally large number of claims from players, yet rather than deal with this in a transparent manner, they refused to say anything beyond "we are investigating this win". Had they said that they had a dozen claims in the last xx hours, it would have been accepted that the most plausible explanation was a software glitch incorrectly showing a progressive win.

By being secretive and evasive when asked direct questions, they have made themselves look somewhat "dodgy", making the "glitch" explanation less credible when it eventually came. Only the explanation of the glitch as they saw it has saved them, but it came too late.

The issue of the newspaper games was NOT that they were rigged, but that the newspapers LIED to everybody about it, and even got into trouble with the authorities over how the games were found to be operating. The games were looked at with the assumption that the newspapers were telling the truth, and this is why the misprint was such a disaster. The calls were for them to honour the misprinted number, because after all, as a random selection it didn't matter what number should have been there as everybody had used the misprinted one. The real problem was that the cards were all rigged to generate "near misses" for large numbers of players, and that one misprint created tens of thousands of winning cards that were actually intended to be "near misses". The postage alone cost more than the total prize pool, so even the logical solution of sharing the pot between all the winners was a problem.

Why should players believe that the newspaper barons are unique in being prepared to do something like this? We only find out something is rigged when it gets caught out, and over the years there has been a small but steady flow of scandals where random games have been shown to have been rigged in some way, some intentionally, and some by means of an accidental software glitch.

Here we have yet another big payout denied because there has been a software glitch, a glitch in software that marketing people spend a great deal of effort on convincing players such things are "impossible". This means that those players who swallow the marketing hype believe the only proper explanation is intentional cheating, but unintentional getting caught. In this case, it looks like a progressive has been awarded fairly by the server, but then recalled by the operator because it wasn't "due" yet, and was supposed to have paid out at a predetermined later date or level.
 

Nifty29

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Joined
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Turn right, then right. then right again
Quite, but the response of the casino seemed to be "it has to be a glitch", even before it had any idea what was going on. If casinos take this attitude, how can they expect players to believe the games are 100% random. With random, some pretty freakish coincidences can happen, but it seems that casino operators are just as bad as superstitious players when unusual coincidences strike, or they already know that it is IMPOSSIBLE because of their knowledge of the inner workings of the games.

It seems the coincidence that got their interest was an abnormally large number of claims from players, yet rather than deal with this in a transparent manner, they refused to say anything beyond "we are investigating this win". Had they said that they had a dozen claims in the last xx hours, it would have been accepted that the most plausible explanation was a software glitch incorrectly showing a progressive win.

By being secretive and evasive when asked direct questions, they have made themselves look somewhat "dodgy", making the "glitch" explanation less credible when it eventually came. Only the explanation of the glitch as they saw it has saved them, but it came too late.

The issue of the newspaper games was NOT that they were rigged, but that the newspapers LIED to everybody about it, and even got into trouble with the authorities over how the games were found to be operating. The games were looked at with the assumption that the newspapers were telling the truth, and this is why the misprint was such a disaster. The calls were for them to honour the misprinted number, because after all, as a random selection it didn't matter what number should have been there as everybody had used the misprinted one. The real problem was that the cards were all rigged to generate "near misses" for large numbers of players, and that one misprint created tens of thousands of winning cards that were actually intended to be "near misses". The postage alone cost more than the total prize pool, so even the logical solution of sharing the pot between all the winners was a problem.

Why should players believe that the newspaper barons are unique in being prepared to do something like this? We only find out something is rigged when it gets caught out, and over the years there has been a small but steady flow of scandals where random games have been shown to have been rigged in some way, some intentionally, and some by means of an accidental software glitch.

Here we have yet another big payout denied because there has been a software glitch, a glitch in software that marketing people spend a great deal of effort on convincing players such things are "impossible". This means that those players who swallow the marketing hype believe the only proper explanation is intentional cheating, but unintentional getting caught. In this case, it looks like a progressive has been awarded fairly by the server, but then recalled by the operator because it wasn't "due" yet, and was supposed to have paid out at a predetermined later date or level.

Can you please quote where reps and marketing people have "spent a great deal of effort" into convincing players that "glitches are impossible"?

Take your time.

If you read the rep's reply, you will see that SEVERAL players received that message, so it was NOT a case of the "jackpot being awarded fairly" at all, NOR was it a case of "the operator recalling the jackpot because it wasn't due". You're totally making stuff up here. If the jackpot WAS awarded fairly, and not via a glitch, then only ONE player would have hit it and they would have been paid....by the software, or at the very least by the casino if it WAS only one person.
 

vinylweatherman

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Can you please quote where reps and marketing people have "spent a great deal of effort" into convincing players that "glitches are impossible"?

Take your time.

If you read the rep's reply, you will see that SEVERAL players received that message, so it was NOT a case of the "jackpot being awarded fairly" at all, NOR was it a case of "the operator recalling the jackpot because it wasn't due". You're totally making stuff up here. If the jackpot WAS awarded fairly, and not via a glitch, then only ONE player would have hit it and they would have been paid....by the software, or at the very least by the casino if it WAS only one person.

Yes, but for DAYS these players were kept in the dark, believing themselves to have won the progressive fairly. All the casino needed to do was make it clear it had been a number of players receiving a message that they had all won the SAME progressive, something it clearly knew almost from the start, and why they needed to investigate rather than pay as per routine. This level of honesty and transparency would have ensured a better understanding of this issue, and may well have prevented this thread from appearing.

The fact they wanted to keep the whole thing quiet is supporting evidence that their "line" when it comes to communicating with customers is that "glitches don't happen". They didn't volunteer the information, but were steadily being backed into a corner by the discussions on this thread, and the lesser "evil" was to admit that it was a software glitch, and the progressive had not been won by anyone who received the message.

If you need to see examples of the operators trying to convince us that glitches don't happen, just take a look at the advertising, all the BS about how our money is "absolutely safe", followed by some waffle about 128 bit encryption etc that is largely irrelevant once a deposit has been made. The idea is to make us feel that EVERYTHING is 100% safe and secure, which is clearly not true. Operators go bust, taking players' funds with them, and many wins turn out to be the result of software glitches.

At the same time Coral had this glitch, a Spanish named casino were busy adjusting players' balances due to yet another serious glitch that randomly credited deposits twice (or more) just because players had switched to a different game.

Despite all these glitches that benefit the player, there is a distinct lack of REPORTED glitches that go in the casino's favour. As a software glitch is accidental, there should be no bias either way, so it would suggest there is less effort going into discovering and correcting such glitches. Of the few that have surfaced in this forum, operators and software suppliers have flatly denied that there was any glitch for weeks, even months, and the onus has been on the player community to produce overwhelming proof that a glitch exists, yet with the considerable disadvantage of not having access to the data needed (which is on the casinos' server).


They really shouldn't be surprised when PLAYERS say that any suggestion that their win was a mistake down to a "glitch" is "bullshit", and merely a ruse to wriggle out of paying. They shouldn't be surprised either if players keep quiet when they think their win might be a glitch in case it is and gets voided. Despite what the terms say, many players will withdraw and use that as a test to determine whether they saw a glitch, or just got lucky. This means that unless the casino notices during an audit, the glitch does not get spotted and fixed.

After all, if I tell a casino that I think my big win on Treasure Ireland might be too big to be legit, they are going to tell me that I don't know what the limits, if any, happen to be on a big feature payout. All I do know is that from a marketing sheet for a different MGS fruitie, the limit on such a feature was 3.5x the jackpot value, which oddly enough happens to be the approximate limit I have experienced on every single big feature payout on that fruitie bar "that one".

If I had been one of the Coral players affected by this glitch, I would have taken the vague "we are investigating" as something to do with verifying my identity and/or documents for signs of me being a fraudster, not anything to do with a major software glitch affecting many players. The subsequent delay and "no comment" attitude would have made me think they are sure they have something on me, and are going to void the win on that basis. Fearing an imminent injustice, I would have gone on the offensive like the OP, although quite probably using different tactics.
 

blkblkblk

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V sorry to bump this ancient thread. Reading about the betfred ruling stirred this saga up... At the time I had to move on and forget about it, so as not to lose the plot, but I've decided to reopen the case, despite the timeframe, as I don't think it was dealt with fairly. I wasn't provided any real evidence bar what it is in this thread, the communication was largely via this forum and the entire situation was handled in a deeply unprofessional way. I don't gamble anymore so looking back from the outside in, it seems even more baffling, especially in terms of how I was treated as a customer.

I think either coral or playtech/ash gaming should have properly compensated players with all or part of the jackpot. For full disclosure I was offered two football tickets by way of apology, which I accepted. This was not a settlement and I have all the correspondence. Feels daft now, but as mentioned, I was very keen to move on as I didn't want to think about it any further.

Does anyone have an up to date contact for a rep on here? I note the account I spoke with before is now dormant. Any advice welcome!

thanks,
 

lewisnadasurf

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V sorry to bump this ancient thread. Reading about the betfred ruling stirred this saga up... At the time I had to move on and forget about it, so as not to lose the plot, but I've decided to reopen the case, despite the timeframe, as I don't think it was dealt with fairly. I wasn't provided any real evidence bar what it is in this thread, the communication was largely via this forum and the entire situation was handled in a deeply unprofessional way. I don't gamble anymore so looking back from the outside in, it seems even more baffling, especially in terms of how I was treated as a customer.

I think either coral or playtech/ash gaming should have properly compensated players with all or part of the jackpot. For full disclosure I was offered two football tickets by way of apology, which I accepted. This was not a settlement and I have all the correspondence. Feels daft now, but as mentioned, I was very keen to move on as I didn't want to think about it any further.

Does anyone have an up to date contact for a rep on here? I note the account I spoke with before is now dormant. Any advice welcome!

thanks,

Coral is now Entain If that helps and there is no active rep on here anymore.

I feel the Betfred thing is slightly different though. The bloke had the money in his account and he kept on winning the money it stated on screen and it applied to his balance.

In your case it stated you didn’t win anything. It didn’t display the £26k or add it to your balance.

I wish you good luck though.
 

colinsunderland

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On top of what @lewisnadasurf has said, and more importantly, you are out of time for any legal action, you only have 6 years from the date it happened, or you became aware of it. I can't think of any reason that would be accepted by a court that you couldn't have started any action within the 6 years.
 

blkblkblk

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Thanks both. I can't go into specifics but believe I would still have a case despite the general 6 year limitation. That said I am waiting for coral to respond in the first instance and I'll let you know.

Yes, tricky in my position as the 'glitch' was that the jackpot didn't pay out when it should have.

At the very least, I'd be happy to add some evidence/exposure to hopefully ensure it doesn't happen to anyone else. Fat chance, I suppose..
 

colinsunderland

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Thanks both. I can't go into specifics but believe I would still have a case despite the general 6 year limitation. That said I am waiting for coral to respond in the first instance and I'll let you know.

Yes, tricky in my position as the 'glitch' was that the jackpot didn't pay out when it should have.

At the very least, I'd be happy to add some evidence/exposure to hopefully ensure it doesn't happen to anyone else. Fat chance, I suppose..
Why can't you go into specifics on the limitation part? Thats the very first thing you would have to convince the court and I genuinely can't think of any reason why you couldn't start the action previously to now. You can't use the Betfred case as a reason if thats what you are thinking.
 

blkblkblk

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I have private correspondence that would be relevant (not related to the betfred ruling) but I concede it's a narrow possibility - I'm not trying to be evasive/sound mysterious, I just want to wait for coral to respond and don't want to jeopardise my complaint by laying everything out here.

Anyway a shot in the dark, but felt remiss not to follow up.
 

colinsunderland

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I have private correspondence that would be relevant (not related to the betfred ruling) but I concede it's a narrow possibility - I'm not trying to be evasive/sound mysterious, I just want to wait for coral to respond and don't want to jeopardise my complaint by laying everything out here.

Anyway a shot in the dark, but felt remiss not to follow up.
ok, well thats fair enough, but I would strongly suggest speaking to a solicitor before starting any claim just for some general advice, you don't want to be hit with costs if your claim is without merit. Good luck though.
 
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