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"I've since had different companies contact me saying if that was their company, they'd pay out. When I placed the bet the guy behind the counter said it was absolutely fine. They're now saying it's a related bet."
For all we know, the traders could have flagged it minutes after it was placed and the guy had already left the shop - we only have his testimony for how it happened (and as mentioned above, he's said other things that raise red flags).I don't agree. If the guy behind the counter accepted the bet and confirmed it was fine it has been in their system for the full tournament and they should just pay it out. And perhaps train their staff to know the T&Cs. It doesn't matter if this is a trainee or someone who worked for them for 10 years.
Depending on the error, yes you could - e.g. if you wrote a lower price on the slip then they should honour it at the correct price, or if you write a mathematically impossible bet (e.g. an accumulator where both teams win the same match) then they should void the bet.If I make a wrong bet I can't go and recall it after the event but somehow it's acceptable a bookie does this when initially accepting the stake from the customer?
For all we know, the traders could have flagged it minutes after it was placed and the guy had already left the shop - we only have his testimony for how it happened (and as mentioned above, he's said other things that raise red flags).
Similarly, if he paid cash there's potentially no opportunity (whether intentional or not) for the shop to rectify it until he comes to collect his "1495/1" winnings. So they have paid him out - considerably more than he's legally entitled to under the terms and conditions - just not at the odds he invented.
Given Argentina + Messi POTT was being offered around 20/1, that would mean France are 70/1 to be the losing finalist in a tournament they were 7/1 to win... nobody is buying that argument, and a competent adjudicator will quickly toss such a case in the bin.
Depending on the error, yes you could - e.g. if you wrote a lower price on the slip then they should honour it at the correct price, or if you write a mathematically impossible bet (e.g. an accumulator where both teams win the same match) then they should void the bet.
Admittedly not all bookmakers would though, which is a problem - which is why it's important for the media to amplify the genuine miscarriages rather than cases like this where the guy is clearly trying it on.
Having worked for Ladbrokes in Gibraltar for five years when we had the telephone betting call centre ( admittedly I didn't work on the trading side ). I know that the system would have flagged said bet when being placed if an issue, or would have been sent to the trading team to review before being allowed to be placed. Same thing with the retail estate. No doubt Coral back then was the same and definitely would be now, now they are part of the same group in Entain.For all we know, the traders could have flagged it minutes after it was placed and the guy had already left the shop - we only have his testimony for how it happened (and as mentioned above, he's said other things that raise red flags).
I'd say the difference here is that it was accepted on a paper slip and likely wasn't entered into the EPOS system until after the chap had left the shop? Of course this would have been rejected if online or by telephone, the system simply wouldn't allow it. Maybe paper slips should be scrapped?Having worked for Ladbrokes in Gibraltar for five years when we had the telephone betting call centre ( admittedly I didn't work on the trading side ). I know that the system would have flagged said bet when being placed if an issue, or would have been sent to the trading team to review before being allowed to be placed. Same thing with the retail estate. No doubt Coral back then was the same and definitely would be now, now they are part of the same group in Entain.
I'd say the difference here is that it was accepted on a paper slip and likely wasn't entered into the EPOS system until after the chap had left the shop? Of course this would have been rejected if online or by telephone, the system simply wouldn't allow it. Maybe paper slips should be scrapped?
I have to say I (respectfully) don't agree with your sentiment of honouring the bet as it was accepted. Businesses have to protect themselves from staff error. Should the staff member have accepted it, no. Should the staff member get a stern talking to, yes. But no way should the company be liable IMHO. Where does this liability cap end? If someone accidentally took a bet at a million to one instead of 10/1 should that be honoured too?
One last thought, isn't it horrible that whenever these bets happen, the "victim" had plans to spend the cash on a needy cause. This chap had planned to spend the money on a mobility scooter for his father. What a nice thing to do. I've never once seen one where it says "I was planning to spend this on booze, ladies of the night and cigars".
Mark
] it was something like 7 to 1, the lass took my slip and then asked a bloke stood right alongside 'can we take this?'
I don't actually think this guy was trying it on, it was likely a mistake as you say. The problem with paying out this bet, even as a PR stunt, would mean every Tom, Dick and Harry who has ever had it happen (there will be more than you think, not everyone runs to the newspapers) will want a piece of that pie. It will also encourage every Dom, Hick and Tarry to try to pull the wool over a betting clerk's eyes in future knowing they will be "forced" to honour it.I think there's merit in paying out and then using that as the legendary example to train the shop staff on the need to spot related bets and then refer them to a senior member of staff, that said 66 to 1 is still very generous if the guy was deliberately trying it on in the mad fever rush of world cup bets. Not everyone in the public would know the odds for related bets must change. Things like the WC would bring in a lot of new punters just turned 18, so there is that remote possibility.
I have to say I (respectfully) don't agree with your sentiment of honouring the bet as it was accepted. Businesses have to protect themselves from staff error. Should the staff member have accepted it, no. Should the staff member get a stern talking to, yes. But no way should the company be liable IMHO.
I would ask what the actual “cost” was to CP. this was a one-off computer error and not (correct me if I’m wrong) something which could happen daily in the current human to human interaction in a bookmakers. I’d also say there’s a good chance that the first class tickets wouldn’t have been sold so actually the cost is negligible. Just a thought!This reminds me of mistake fares that occasionally pop up when booking seats on an airline.
I guess the company involved has to weigh up the PR pros and cons of paying up or not. British Airways won't honour mistake fares so don't ever try to convince them if it happens to you but other airlines sometimes will. Cathay Pacific once honoured some £15,000 first class tickets that were incorrectly sold at £1,300 and went public with the details. Someone at the airline decided the cost was worth the publicity whereas BA are as tight as a fishes arse and don't care that people know it!
Surely though, large businesses have a form of professional liability/indemnity insurance for employee errors, so are covered in that respect? Companies are/can be liable though for employee mistakes (if that's the case here) - that liability can arise from poorly trained staff to having crap systemsI'd say the difference here is that it was accepted on a paper slip and likely wasn't entered into the EPOS system until after the chap had left the shop? Of course this would have been rejected if online or by telephone, the system simply wouldn't allow it. Maybe paper slips should be scrapped?
I have to say I (respectfully) don't agree with your sentiment of honouring the bet as it was accepted. Businesses have to protect themselves from staff error. Should the staff member have accepted it, no. Should the staff member get a stern talking to, yes. But no way should the company be liable IMHO. Where does this liability cap end? If someone accidentally took a bet at a million to one instead of 10/1 should that be honoured too?
One last thought, isn't it horrible that whenever these bets happen, the "victim" had plans to spend the cash on a needy cause. This chap had planned to spend the money on a mobility scooter for his father. What a nice thing to do. I've never once seen one where it says "I was planning to spend this on booze, ladies of the night and cigars".
Mark
In this case as both sides are party to the terms and conditions, they have both made a mistake - the punter has proposed an invalid bet (or rather, a potentially valid bet at incorrect odds), and the shop has accepted it, possibly without trader approval (given the size of the liability).Surely though, large businesses have a form of professional liability/indemnity insurance for employee errors, so are covered in that respect? Companies are/can be liable though for employee mistakes (if that's the case here) - that liability can arise from poorly trained staff to having crap systems
I would ask what the actual “cost” was to CP. this was a one-off computer error and not (correct me if I’m wrong) something which could happen daily in the current human to human interaction in a bookmakers. I’d also say there’s a good chance that the first class tickets wouldn’t have been sold so actually the cost is negligible. Just a thought!
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that you wouldn’t have heard a dickie bird if the penalty was missed.In my personal world - I once managed to get both Rangers and Celtic at 2500/1 to win the Scottish title one year. Obviously an error by the bookies as every team was 2500/1 and when they cancelled my bet I just accepted it. There's no point fighting that one but, previously, I had won £600 from Blue Square in the days when betting in running was just beginning. They didn't have a ten second delay in placing bets on live matches in those days so, when a penalty was awarded in about the 88th minute I stuck £100 on whichever team it was to win the match at 6/1.
Blue Square cancelled the bet using the old excuse "see our t&c's". My reply was it's not my fault I was faster than whoever they employ to suspend the markets and would they have refunded me if the penalty was missed? I didn't win my argument and left Blue Square over that. If they'd honoured the bet I would have stayed with them.
