Confused re:JackpotFactory Bonus requirements & Tournaments

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
Hi

This is only "penny-ante" money I'm talking about, so if your a serious money gambler, you may not wish to continue reading... that's cool.


Maybe it's just me that doesn't understand, but perhaps someone could advise me as to whether this situation makes sense.

At the JackpotFactory Group .. within your account at the Casino you have "real" money & "bonus" money.
The bonus system is straight forward -
You are playing with your "cash" account until a certain playthrough is achieved, then $10 of the bonus is transferred to your cash account or if your "cash" account becomes $0.00 then you are playing with the "bonus" money ..... I'm sure you guys know how it goes.

The JackpotFactory Group of casinos also run "Free" & "Cash" slot tournaments and you can win real money on either.
In both cases, there is a facility where you can re-buy (3-5 times) at a set amount of Cash to continue to play in the tournament.
Bonus money CANNOT be used to enter a cash tournament nor to re-buy in either a cash tournament nor a free tournament.

OK.. here is where I fail to understand.

I was playing in a free tournament & hit a winning streak. In order to increase my position on the leaders board I deposited and bought 5 rebuys.
After completing the re-buys, I had to wait until the tournament finished to see whether I had won anything, so I checked back occasionally.

When I check a few hours before the tournament finished I found that I received a bonus of $7-50 (thank you JPF).
I think I had $0-02 in Cash & $7-50 in Bonus. I played that until I achieved a balance of $0-26 in bonus and left the balance at that, as I didn't want to keep say "no, I don't want to deposit" .. whenever I re-logged in.

I just logged in & see that I won $20 on the tournament, but my account now showed that I had a Cash Balance of $12-76 & a Bonus Balance of $7-50.
Obviously, the win had increased my bonus value back to what it was before the credit to my account & the remainder went into my cash account.

I rang support to see why.
Bonus money cannot be used in the tournaments, so what has a win in the tournaments got to do with my bonus account.... I paid cash for my re-buys ... no bonus involved anywhere.

Support informed me that even if I had played the bonus account to $0-00 their software would have still retained the unplayed bonus requirement and
my winnings of $20 would still have been still split between Cash & Bonus.

1. Was anyone aware that unplayed bonus requirements are retained by Jackpot Factory? According to their support section it's a fact!:eek:
2. What has the bonus account got to do with winnings from the Tournaments. You cannot use the bonus to enter them .. shouldn't a win be classed like a deposit?:confused:

I'd be interested in anyone's view on my storm in a teacup.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.

Cheers
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I really don't understand what they're trying to say....

As I see it, you played through the WR to release the bonus, plain and simple. Even if the software is buggy and throws your money back in the bonus account, JPF should credit your cash account and adjust your bonus money (back to .26) accordingly.

Unless I'm missing something here, they're making you run through the WR twice to claim the same bonus you already cleared.

It's not your fault the software is stupid :)
 

gerilege

Meister Member
PABrogue
PABnorogue
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Location
Hungary
I get it. You probably got a cashback bonus of 7.5, and you did not fulfil the wr, and the winnings were used to top up this previous bonus partially. To avoid this situation you might want to play down your bonus to zero. However I believe you are right, and support should be able to resolve it for you considering you only had 0.26 left, and you obviously didn't want to abuse that promotion.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I get it. You probably got a cashback bonus of 7.5, and you did not fulfil the wr, and the winnings were used to top up this previous bonus partially. To avoid this situation you might want to play down your bonus to zero. However I believe you are right, and support should be able to resolve it for you considering you only had 0.26 left, and you obviously didn't want to abuse that promotion.

This is a long standing BUG that Microgaming somehow slipped in last year. It keeps cropping up, and it does not do exactly the same thing on different occasions.
According to the terms, reaching a ZERO balance should wipe out and wagering requirements, however the BUG often prevents this from working. We now have the situation where support staff have ONLY worked there with this BUG, and now believe this is what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, and new players will often believe this bogus excuse and go on to believe they were wrong, and had misunderstood.

In this case, the balance went down to 0.26, not zero, however balances below 1 credit have been considered to be "zero" for the purposes of dropping WR, since both a deposit & bonus have effectively been lost.

A low roller is unfairly punished by this bug, as a bigger gambler would consider this mistake insignificant when they deposited their next $500 into the account.

It would help if MG would start to take these issues seriously, as this bug has been reported numerous times, and has even lead to matters getting as far as bodies such as eCogra.

Maybe players should use our PAB service in these cases, or approach eCogra, as then the weight of OFFICIAL complaints should get MG to do something about it because they would then come undrr pressure from eCogra, and accredited casinos would come under pressure to force MG's hand because their PAB count would be higher than they would like.

To ensure a clear cut case, play down to EXACTLY zero (not 0.0n), and then log off. If cash then becomes bonus after a fresh deposit or cash prize from a tournament, you have a watertight case.
 

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
Thanks for the comments.

I don't think it warrants PAB, as the JPF group are the only casinos I play at, due to their clear bonus rules (except in this case), their prompt payout & normally great service.

It just didn't seem to be equitable nor logical .. I just wanted to see whether I had lost my persective.

Thanks again!
 

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
Again!!

Well ... It's happened again.

I deposited $75 to re-buy in the slots tournaments and then had to wait 2 days for the tournaments to finish .. to see whether I won anything.

In the meantime, I received a 10% bonus of $7-50 for the deposit.
Again, thank you JPF.

As you advised, vinylweatherman, I immediately played the bonus of $7-50 until I had a $0-00 cash/bonus balance.

Today I won money on 2 of the tournaments and this was immediately transferred to my account ... HOWEVER, $7-50 was credited to my BONUS account and the remainder to my Cash account.

I emailed support immediately, informing them of the bug within the software, that my account balance was $0-00 PRIOR to my tournament winnings being credited to my account and therefore, logically, there shouldn't have been a playthrough requirement remaining on my zero balance account.

I also advised them that I was withdrawing the bulk of the winnings (and accordingly, the bonus would be lost), but I have requested that they re-credit my Cash Balance with the 2 lots of $7-50 that they incorrectly credited to my bonus account.

I'll keep you advised as to their response.

I continue to hold this Casino Group in high esteem, but I am very concerned as to whether they can see the bug in the software & whether they can see the logic of my argument.

Cheers
 

davidkohcg

Full Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
Asia
I have this problem too. I solve this problem by leaving a few cents in the cash balance before collecting the winning. As long as there is credit in the cash balance it will top up the cash balance rather than bonus balance first.
 

Jackpot Factory

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Location
Malta
Reply from David Brickman (Jackpot Factory Casino Group)

Hi vbdragon,

This is David Brickman, VP Player Affairs at the Jackpot Factory.

I haven't heard about this bug but I will certainly look into it. Please message me your account number and I make sure everything gets sorted out.

All the best,

David
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
David,

Maybe you havent heard of this problem as a bug but it happened to me as well several months ago and you helped me resolve it at All Jackpots:thumbsup:. I also played the bonus down $0.00 but part of my tourney winnings were placed in the bonus account later.
 

gambler777

Full Member
PABaccred
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
USA
Well hopefully this helped another small problem be resolved. Wtg
 
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi vbdragon,

This is David Brickman, VP Player Affairs at the Jackpot Factory.

I haven't heard about this bug but I will certainly look into it. Please message me your account number and I make sure everything gets sorted out.

All the best,

David

Perhaps Microgaming like it that way:rolleyes:

This issue has been ongoing for well over a YEAR now, and is evident at ALL casinos using the Microgaming bonus system. The issue has resulted in complaints to eCogra, as well as "referral to Microgaming". It seems that the problem is dealt with on a "case by case" basis when raised, but Microgaming are simply not interested in investigating and implementing a global solution, preferring instead to devote all their energies into producing new games.

There are a number of MG bugs that have been around for years, and remain unsolved, however, when a bug ends up in the CASINO'S favour, MG pulls out all the stops to get it fixed (as well as constructing a cover up for their embarrassment)!
 

Jackpot Factory

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Location
Malta
Reply from David Brickman at the Jackpot Factory

Hi everyone,

I guess I am the last one to know about this issue! I will look into this with MGS this week and respond to this thread. Its part of my commitment to bring some transparency to the industry and share information with our players. Please be patient!

All the best,

David
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
There are a number of MG bugs that have been around for years, and remain unsolved, however, when a bug ends up in the CASINO'S favour, MG pulls out all the stops to get it fixed (as well as constructing a cover up for their embarrassment)!
Don't you mean players' favour?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Don't you mean players' favour?


Dammit YES!!!!!!:eek2:


When it is in the CASINOS favour they drag their feet till a fix is dragged out of them!

While you are at it, tell MG to FIX THE SODDING BUG IN THE TOURNAMENTS while they are at it:mad:

It's the one where all of a sudden you get a couple of fast naked spins (often a bonus round), and then all of a sudden EVERY damn spin seems to have a monstrous server lag (6 to 10 seconds), which MIRACULOUSLY clears itself if you exit and reenter the tournament, or even simply just stop clicking for 10 to 15 seconds.
What gives the game away is the fact that these lagged spins do NOT debit the balance immediately as normal, but wait till the little "busy indicator" stops running before debiting the balance, and settling the spin. If it wasn't for this, I would have blamed MY end or the internet (or even my PC), but this effect is so "preprogrammed" as to NOT be down to "internet traffic" as you would like to fob us off with. Clearly, the software knows IN ADVANCE that there will be "internet traffic" holding up the reply, how careless of MG:rolleyes:
 

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
David ... PM'd details.

I apologize for the delay in responding, but I was awaiting a reply from All Jackpots, before coming back to the forum.
The reply finally came, but didn't address the question of refunding the $15.
I look forward to hearing from you.

vinylweatherman ...
I thought it was my connection that accounted for the "lag" and the software taking time to "highlight" every payline when you get a pay in the bonus section of the slots.
The other real pain is when you are in the middle of a bonus round, you are kicked out of the tournament when the time is up!
The system should count the bonus round as "continuous play" and allow the bonus round to finish before closing...
Just my 2 cents .. (it's about all I can afford anyway :D )
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
David ... PM'd details.

I apologize for the delay in responding, but I was awaiting a reply from All Jackpots, before coming back to the forum.
The reply finally came, but didn't address the question of refunding the $15.
I look forward to hearing from you.

vinylweatherman ...
I thought it was my connection that accounted for the "lag" and the software taking time to "highlight" every payline when you get a pay in the bonus section of the slots.
The other real pain is when you are in the middle of a bonus round, you are kicked out of the tournament when the time is up!
The system should count the bonus round as "continuous play" and allow the bonus round to finish before closing...
Just my 2 cents .. (it's about all I can afford anyway :D )

In the past, it was possible to continue during a bonus round by clicking "spin" and hurrying the slot up. Now, this can no longer be done, and even clicking the screen to complete the count up, a tip David himself gives in the blog, has been stopped from working by recent "upgrades", as all that happens is the countup completes, but the spins do not continue till EVERY winline is shown for about a second. Win on 10 lines, and sit waiting for 10 seconds doing nothing:mad:


When the MG tournaments first came out, these problems simply didn't exist. There was NO noticeable lag, but suddenly there was a step change from NO lag, to the terrible lag that we experience now. This was also related to the tournaments not working over that weekend because the EXISTING tournament slots were included in the "new games update" that took place over the same weekend, causing failures when players tried to play what they considered the existing tournament slots.

Microgaming continue to lie about what happened, and since then are only prepared to say that "internet traffic" has been the cause behind these problems of "server lag". A plausable explanation, and almost impossible to prove UNLESS you are able to compare the old with the new, and note how the explanation is inconsistent with the evidence.

MG also botched the MG bonus system while attempting to fix an exploitable loophole in the original implementation, which is probably why operators seem to know little or nothing about the ongoing problems created by this bodged up fix.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
The bug with the zeroed out bonus not showing as cleared in the casino's system has been around for ages at least 2 or 3 years(!). I encountered it way back when US players were still welcome at places like Mummy's Gold and I was denied a cash in (won off bonus free deposit) because their records indicated that I 'hadn't cleared the sign up bonus' I'd received 5 MONTHS earlier -- despite the fact that I HAD zeroed out that deposit AND bonus, and had even received bonuses and withdrawal after that time.

No one could ever expain why the glitch showed up in the casino's sytem 5 months later. And no one could say when the bug would be fixed, even though the casino eventually contacted MG about it. Needless to say, it tooks several days (over a week) and numerous emails and phone calls to get that mess straightened out.
 

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
I received a reply from Jackpot Factory that included the good news that they had credited my "cash account" at the casino with $20.

Thank you for you prompt action in resolving the matter.

The reply also included a puzzling reference to their T&C's ..
"We shall work on updating the T&Cs so there is no reoccurence of cases like this."

While this is a software problem, I really fail to understand how their T&Cs are involved .. unless it is in reference to tournament wins somehow being applied to the "Bonus Account", when a customer is still playing with a bonus??

But, as I'm aware of the bug & how it seems to work, I will ensure that I'm not in that position the next time I'm fortunate enough to get money from a tournament.

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers!!

:thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I received a reply from Jackpot Factory that included the good news that they had credited my "cash account" at the casino with $20.

Thank you for you prompt action in resolving the matter.

The reply also included a puzzling reference to their T&C's ..
"We shall work on updating the T&Cs so there is no reoccurence of cases like this."

While this is a software problem, I really fail to understand how their T&Cs are involved .. unless it is in reference to tournament wins somehow being applied to the "Bonus Account", when a customer is still playing with a bonus??

But, as I'm aware of the bug & how it seems to work, I will ensure that I'm not in that position the next time I'm fortunate enough to get money from a tournament.

Thanks for all the input.

Cheers!!

:thumbsup:


A rather careless answer:confused:

Do they intend to change the T & C to ACCOMMODATE the "bug", rather than fixing it?
 

vbdragon

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
sekai
vinylweatherman ... Do you have a crystal ball or what!!

The reply I was referring to in my previous post, was via a PM at this forum....
However, when I checked my Casino registered email account, the mystery reference to the T&C's has been somewhat clarified.

Thank you for contacting All Jackpots Casino about the bonus credit issue.
I can empathize with your feelings on the issue of winnings being credited to your bonus balance in order to zero out the wagering requirement as per the clear play bonus system.
However, the reply is that, the terms and conditions clearly state, should the wagering requirements for bonuses given not be met, any winnings will be used to cover them.
You will be able to view these terms by following the link below:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Perhaps I'm not reading English correctly, but I cannot see anything like that statement on either the "Clear Play" page nor on the "Wagering Requirments" page
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


There is nothing in the .../clearplay_about.html link regarding what happens when your account reaches a zero balance, so "Ipso Facto" ... the wagering requirement is retained (but, they don't say that!!).

Looks like this is the "clarification" that will occur in the T&Cs.

A bonus can be used in the normal "casino operations area" to wager on slots, roulette ... etc.
Accordingly, as I can wager & therefore win, a wager requirement would be expected.. BUT..

BONUSES CANNOT BE USED IN TOURNAMENTS... so,
No advantage is gained by the player .. irrespective of what is ocurring in the "normal casino operations area"
Therefore, any wins in the tournaments should be credited to the "cash account".

However, it would seem that logic doesn't come into the equation in the case of the tournaments.

Irrespective, the JPF group are still the only place I will play..It's just the lack of logic in this case that has pressed my "buttons".

Who said life was meant to be easy?
:lolup:
 
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