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Confiscated winning at Bet and Win casino - Help needed !!!

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by vinsanity83, Oct 18, 2005.

    Oct 18, 2005
  1. vinsanity83

    vinsanity83 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hello all,

    Last month, I registered a new accout at Bet and Win casino to take advantage of their signup bonus. I depositted 200 Euro (which would qualify me for maximum bonus), and the bonus amount in 100 Euro was creditted to my account right away. As my deposit was immediately avaialble for withdrawl, I requested cashout of my deposit. Then, I played through the wagering requirement of 6000 Euro, which took me long long time (I flat betted 5 Euro/hand, and their software was painfully slow). In doing so, I earned 110 Euro on top of 100 Euro bonus. I decided to leave 210 Euro in my account since I had already made a cashout request not long ago.

    Next day, I got an email from their customer support, asking me to send in the photo ID so they could process my cashout. I did that without any complaint, and shortly after, I found out that my account was locked! I called them, and was told that my account had been closed for security reason by their financial department and my cashout would not be processed until the investigaion of my account is complete. I asked them to give me a specific reason for closing my account, but they continued to repeat that it was closed for security reason, and wouldn't give me the details. They promised to contact me once the investigation of my account is over.

    About a week and a half later, I got an email saying that my deposit was paid back to my Neteller but the rest of my money (bonus+winnings) would not be paid according to their terms and conditions. I know I tried to withdraw my deposit before starting to play, but this was not against their T&Cs. They first banned my account without any notice, and now they wouldn't pay me my money. I fired them another email and explained that my winnings were earned through legitimate play and I even completed the entire wagering requirement for the bonus. And this is the reply I received from them.


    Dear Mr. XXX,

    Thank you for your mail.

    As we have told you earlier, our finance department has decided to close your betaccount because of security reasons, and your deposit was refunded to your Neteller account.

    Due to our terms and conditions no winnings will be transfered, we also reserve the right not to elaborate on why we have closed the account.

    Here is a part of our general terms and conditions:

    LIABILITY/DATA PROCESSING
    4.The company reserves the right to exclude users from participating in any of the games of BAW International Ltd. at its discretion.

    You can find our general terms and conditions at:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

    Best regards,

    Your betandwin support team


    I'm relatively new in playing at online casinos, but is withdrawing my deposit and playing with only bonus money considered "bonus abuse" or something? Nowhere in their T&Cs, it mentions about the bonus abuse. I know that majority of online casinos wouldn't let you withdraw anything before meething the wagering requirement, but this casino openly allowed this. I mean they have set the wagering restrictions for withdrawing the bonus, so as long as I fulfill that requirement, they should definitely pay me, right?

    I apologize for the long post, but I really think banning my account and confiscating my winnings was very unfair and harsh thing for them to do. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2005
  2. Oct 18, 2005
  3. kelvinlym

    kelvinlym Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Ulm, Germany
    Did you withdraw your deposit as in withdrawing to your neteller or withdrawing only out of the casino software into your Betandwin account?

    Maybe they closed your account because you did not put your own money at risk at all?

    Or maybe there was a problem with your ID?

    I think it's fair if the casino returned your deposit only if you didn't risk your money at all and just withdrew it immediately after getting the bonus and only playing with the bonus.

    I played before in this casino and sportsbook, with bonus and all but didn't have any problems.
     
  4. Oct 18, 2005
  5. vinsanity83

    vinsanity83 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Toronto
    I know that I played it "risk free". But what I am saying is they "allowed" me to do that. There are a few risk free casino bonuses out there (although not many), and I thought this was one of those. I started playing with the bonus only, but none of the winnings accumulated from my play were withdrawable until I actually finished the wagering requirement for the bonus. So technically, I did not do anything wrong, and that's why I believe I deserve to get paid. If they don't like customers withdrawing their deposits and playing around with bonuses, they shouldn't allow their software to accept any withdrawl request before one completes the wagering requirement. I mean that is not a difficult thing for them to do. I did everything within what their terms and conditions allowed, and my winnings were earned through legitimate play in games offered by their casino.
     
  6. Oct 18, 2005
  7. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    I seriously doubt you'll get much support here if you withdraw your deposit and just attempt to play with free bonus money - no matter whether this is excluded by the terms and conditions or not.

    They paid you your deposit back (which will have likely cost them both to take the deposit and pay it back), which seems fair to me in the situation.
     
  8. Oct 18, 2005
  9. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Of every casino squark of "bonus abuse" ever heard in the industry's 10-year history, both playing through a bonus, losing and cashing out deposit, or cashing out your deposit straight away, are the only genuine "bonus abuses" that a player can be accused of (aside from actual fraud), since you're playing "risk-free". All the rest is casino double-talk.

    So yes, on this occasion this is "bonus abuse", and no, they definately should not pay you.
     
  10. Oct 18, 2005
  11. Bruce Hamilton

    Bruce Hamilton Dormant account

    Occupation:
    What's a job?
    Location:
    USA
    I'm afraid I have to agree with these two posters. Bonuses are given as incentives to deposit and wager your own money, not to allow you to keep your deposit and play for free. Almost every casino will allow you to have a free account.
     
  12. Oct 18, 2005
  13. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    You tried to cheat them and you lost.

    What kind of a business can operate with no chance of making a profit?

    Why would they want to pay you? You demonstrated utmost bad faith, had no intention to risk any money.

    You are not a customer, you are just there to take their money.
     
  14. Oct 19, 2005
  15. pstnpstn

    pstnpstn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Seoul
    fortuantely, you received your deposit money.

    I dont know there are risk-free casinos.
    even ecash-direct casinos if you do like this thing several times,
    you will be banned.

    online casino is not charitable work.
     
  16. Oct 19, 2005
  17. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I agree with all the above posts. Although maybe not in black & white, withdrawing your deposit before even playing is clearly not in the 'spirit' of the bonus.

    The fact that they allow it is fairly meaningless. Take a look at the iNetBet thread where they allowed a player to claim a bonus, play with it and make a profit and then only after the event declare that he was a 'bonus abuser' and withhold his winnings. It happens all the time.
    At least you got to keep your deposit! ;)

    Play fair with the casino, and most will play fair with you. I get about 7-8 regular monthly bonuses with no hassles at all, because I stick to their rules and very rarely withdraw at the earliest opportunity. In fact, with many I let my balance build up over several months so I only need to withdraw 3 or 4 times a year! :cool:
     
  18. Oct 19, 2005
  19. vinsanity83

    vinsanity83 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Toronto
    OK, thanks for the replies guys. I recently started chasing online casinos, and didn't know that what I did is actually frowned upon. I'll take this as a good lesson, and won't make the same mistake again in future. Thinking again, yes, it is unfair for the casino that I just take their money and try to win with it without risking any of my own money.

    Thanks again for sound criticism and advices.
     
  20. Feb 9, 2006
  21. Suited72

    Suited72 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    saes
    Location:
    Leicester, uk
    It shouldn't be frowned upon vinsanity. The people here have seen some rediculous reasons for voiding an account & returning a bonus so your complaint seems a reasonable excuse. But I disagree with the term used for you as "bonus abuser" In most cases the only bonus abusers are the casinos.

    If you went to a shop to buy just the items youve seen on special offer they dont confiscate your basket and we shouldnt expect it online either. Its thier own stupid faults for starting to offer bonuses in the first place.
     
  22. Feb 11, 2006
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Bonus Abuse?

    Sorry, I do not agree, the casino did NOT cite "bonus abuse" as a reason for closing the account, however legitimate this reason is. They implied that you were not who you said you were as they made this decision once they received your ID. If the reason IS bonus abuse, then they lied to you, which is not acceptable. They should actually have locked your account as soon as you withdrew the deposit without playing and showed the intent to play risk free with the bonus. If your ID is good (and you are not trying to hide anything), they have no right to say otherwise without backing it up (which they would have to do in a regulated environment).
    The problem with the current lack of regulation in the industry is they can do whatever they believe they can get away with, especially if they believe there is little prospect of making money from you.
    I have come to believe that this ability to withdraw and play risk free is set as a trap to catch those who intend to "bonus hunt". Although allowed, they don't expect a genuine player to do it. A player who has second thoughts after depositing is probably why this term exists, rather than to make it easy for the bonus hunter.
     

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