Complaint - Tip Top Casino

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
Let me preface this by saying -

1) I was more than a bit tipsy when I decided to play here
2) I didn't do the background research which I normally always do
3) I am not a newbie to this in the least but I sure acted like one!

Now that that's out of the way, here's the story...

The other night I went out with some friends, had more than a few drinks and wanted to gamble. I normally only gamble at a few select places but I had put those few casinos on hold for a month while my husband starts a new job (to prevent myself from being tempted while we're a bit short on cash until he starts getting his new regular paycheck in)

But alas, a few drinks = really really wanting to gamble.

I looked for Nuworks casinos as it's a software I really love and saw that a new casino by the name of Tip Top Casino opened up. So I figured, what the heck, what's $40? um... apparently, it's a big freaking headache, that's what it is.

So I deposited and took a bonus of 100% for $40. I had to wager $1200 to be able to cash out. I went back and forth but eventually made it up to about $300. I started going down and was at about $215 when all of a sudden I went to make a wager and a box popped up that said "You have insufficient credits for this bet". I looked at my balance and saw only $4.95 in my account (remember, I was drunk, I was betting $6.25, lol)

Anyhow, I checked the history and see a credit back to the casino in the form of $211.95 that said Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested and Approved!

Of course I never requested a coupon reversal in such a random amount so I went on to live chat. And over the course of the next 45 minutes (all of which 2 of them were used to actually chat with me), Oscar said that it was returned to the casino because the bonus amount wasn't wagered in full. Well, of course not... I was still wagering!!! I had NOT cashed out. I was literally in the middle of playing. So he said he would send a note to support and I'd hear back on Monday. This was Friday night. He basically said that if they requested it, then I wouldn't be getting it back because and I quote "obviously, it wasn't an error on our part."

He couldn't tell me factually what it was for, only what he thought it was for. He couldn't tell me why they chose that amount, only that it was "probably" the amount i hadn't wagered of my bonus. Yet, he couldn't answer why they would do it while I was still wagering. He then changed his tune and said, it was probably because I had finished wagering and that's what they were owed. You can see I wasn't getting anywhere with this guy. So I sent an email, which I haven't heard back from because they don't work weekends.

Anyhow, my loss of $40 is your gain because now you know, never never never ever play here - even when you had 1 too many shots and think, hey, this casino looks like fun :)

P.S. If anyone can wager a guess as to what reason that $211.95 would be taken out, it would be much appreciated, as I truly can't figure it out!!
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Coupon reversal would mean that the casino has seen a requested w/d which kills the coupon/bonus. The 211.95 would have been the amount/proportion of your balance that you had accrued with the bonus funds at that time. The rest was your cash balance. 4.95. Too small to w/d on its own. The only scenario that makes sense is that you withdrew say 100 of your cash balance of 104.95, you were left the 4.95cash +211.95 bonus which was immediately removed.
You say you didn't, but it is the only way I can make sense of it UNLESS you were doing OK and changed to a prohibited slot for which the bonus was invalid and they removed it?
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
I looked at the option of changing to a prohibited slot, but I definitely didn't do that. I had been playing something like Magic show which is your typical slot. I definitely didn't cash out because I was literally in the middle of playing. I swear, as tipsy as I was, I know I didn't cash out, lol.

I do understand what you are saying about the bonus... but (and I found this out after reading the terms after the money had disappeared) that the withdrawal is 10x the amount of the bonus, so even taking that into consideration, I was well under my $400 withdrawal amount that I would have been able to withdraw. So it makes even less sense using that scenario.

Honestly, I'm just baffled!
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
10x deposit max cashout. LOL.

What a joke.

Coupon reversal sounds like the casino believes you have another account or have claimed a bonus to which you weren't entitled.

Still, given the crap terms and crap support, it could be anything really.

I won't say that you should know better, as you've already done so.
 

ChillBill

Banned User - Aussiedave in disguise
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
Australia
10x deposit max cashout. LOL.

What a joke..... given the crap terms and crap support, it could be anything really.

There's Tip Top Bread in Australia, seeing tip top casino made me laugh. Lesson, don't play when your tanked, cause when your sober a casino name like this, you'd avoid :D
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
I only claimed a $40 bonus so even if they reversed that, i wouldn't have gotten some random amount taken out like $211.95, lol

And yes, had I been sober I never would have played here :)

And another yes, the 10x max cashout is a total joke... had I been able to read at the time, I never EVER would play here :eek2:
 

randomiam

Dormant Account
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Location
australia
:)

There's Tip Top Bread in Australia, seeing tip top casino made me laugh. Lesson, don't play when your tanked, cause when your sober a casino name like this, you'd avoid :D

casino sounds abit toasty to me to whats next there could be games like ""adventures in wonderbread" with the mad hatters breakfast feature
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Hmmmm I wonder if there was a max bet attached to the bonus? Is it possible that if you were betting over the max that the software automatically took the bonus back?

I just tried to look at the terms but the website won't even load. Did they go out of business already? ;)
 

SlotsLover

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Location
California
10x max deposit cashout

10x deposit max cashout. LOL.

What a joke.

Coupon reversal sounds like the casino believes you have another account or have claimed a bonus to which you weren't entitled.

Still, given the crap terms and crap support, it could be anything really.

I won't say that you should know better, as you've already done so.

I think the 10x max deposit cashout is the most unbelievably cheating rule out there and that entire group (I believe tiptop is part of freespin, cherrygold, planet) has that rule. The entire point of slot machines is the giant jackpot and this ruins that completely. I used to love that group, now I am sad they are not only not going out of business due to that rule, but that they are able to spawn off new casinos.

I think we need to start a strong campaign against any casino that has a max cashout for deposit match bonuses and also (not that there are any, I'm not sure) make that a strict rule for accreditation here at CM.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Their CDS link works, might as well make a complaint to see the REAL reason for this. If you are VERY lucky, CDS might even find in your favour:rolleyes: It's happened once this year already:what:

They claim UK based CS, but don't have a UK number. They are clearly targeting ONLY the US market, despite the terms implying that they are interested in a variety of markets (with the usual list of exceptions). The company itself is based in Curacao.

They don't claim to be related to any other casino, but if their CS asks you for the name of the casino you are asking about, they probably are.

The only legitimate excuse they may have is that you did something you shouldn't have whilst drunk, and now don't remember it, perhaps a single bet on a prohibited game by mistake.
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
Hmmmm I wonder if there was a max bet attached to the bonus? Is it possible that if you were betting over the max that the software automatically took the bonus back?

I just tried to look at the terms but the website won't even load. Did they go out of business already? ;)

That is a possibility, I didn't even think about that. I did look at the terms again this morning (no they didn't go out of business yet, lol) and it didn't say anything that I could find about a maximum bet... but who knows, they may add that later, lol
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
Their CDS link works, might as well make a complaint to see the REAL reason for this. If you are VERY lucky, CDS might even find in your favour:rolleyes: It's happened once this year already:what:

They claim UK based CS, but don't have a UK number. They are clearly targeting ONLY the US market, despite the terms implying that they are interested in a variety of markets (with the usual list of exceptions). The company itself is based in Curacao.

They don't claim to be related to any other casino, but if their CS asks you for the name of the casino you are asking about, they probably are.

The only legitimate excuse they may have is that you did something you shouldn't have whilst drunk, and now don't remember it, perhaps a single bet on a prohibited game by mistake.

They didn't ask about a specific casino name, just my username.

I wasn't drunk enough to not know what I was betting on, I do remember that, lol

And btw, it's Monday afternoon and they STILL haven't gotten back to me. So if it's in the UK, their day already came and went and they couldn't be bothered to email me an answer. At the very least, the customer service is HORRIBLE!! I don't expect the money back, I'm okay with losing $40 that I put into it but darn it, I want an answer!
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
I got the site to load finally and good grief, could they have picked a font that was any more difficult to read? I think my eyes went on strike.

badfont.jpg

Anyhow...it will be interesting to see what excuse they come up with. Keep us posted! :thumbsup:
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
After spending about 20 - 30 minutes on live chat I have gotten the answer!

Daniel: I see what happened - hold on please (I held for about 20 minutes)
Daniel: sorry to keep you waiting
Daniel: I just refunded your account with $211.95
Daniel: we have an issue with the bonus system and I'm sorry you were affected
Daniel: our technical team has been looking into this for some time now

So apparently, they have known about the bonus problem and still allowed people to claim them.

Well at least that is done! I'm going to finish my wagering if I have any, cash out immediately, and learn my lesson. I'll update you and let you know if I get any money,(yes, I know that is laughable!)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
After spending about 20 - 30 minutes on live chat I have gotten the answer!

Daniel: I see what happened - hold on please (I held for about 20 minutes)
Daniel: sorry to keep you waiting
Daniel: I just refunded your account with $211.95
Daniel: we have an issue with the bonus system and I'm sorry you were affected
Daniel: our technical team has been looking into this for some time now

So apparently, they have known about the bonus problem and still allowed people to claim them.

Well at least that is done! I'm going to finish my wagering if I have any, cash out immediately, and learn my lesson. I'll update you and let you know if I get any money,(yes, I know that is laughable!)

That's very poor. They told you "we don't make mistakes", and if you hadn't persisted, they would have ripped you off. I wonder how many other players didn't persist and just got ripped off through this known error.

It makes it look deliberate, but if a player really persists, they back down knowing that many will not. At best, it looks incredibly incompetent, yet they claim to be "experienced" in this industry, as well as "leaders" in terms of excellence. Leaders maybe, but in bullshit, not excellence. Do they REALLY have UK offices as they claim? Seems odd that they don't have a UK accessible phone number despite accepting UK players, and the only postal address they have is in Curacao.
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
That's very poor. They told you "we don't make mistakes", and if you hadn't persisted, they would have ripped you off. I wonder how many other players didn't persist and just got ripped off through this known error.

It makes it look deliberate, but if a player really persists, they back down knowing that many will not. At best, it looks incredibly incompetent, yet they claim to be "experienced" in this industry, as well as "leaders" in terms of excellence. Leaders maybe, but in bullshit, not excellence. Do they REALLY have UK offices as they claim? Seems odd that they don't have a UK accessible phone number despite accepting UK players, and the only postal address they have is in Curacao.

I wholeheartedly agree! I'm sure other players didn't persist and just let it be... but I'm not one of them that's for sure, lol. It's the principle, not the money. I don't think they do have UK offices, because when I brought that up at the end of my conversation he dodged it completely and never answered me, just told me to have a nice day and that he would pass another note to "support" to explain that it happened again.

I did however cash out for $100 (plus the $30 fee for a bankwire) so we'll see what happens!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I wholeheartedly agree! I'm sure other players didn't persist and just let it be... but I'm not one of them that's for sure, lol. It's the principle, not the money. I don't think they do have UK offices, because when I brought that up at the end of my conversation he dodged it completely and never answered me, just told me to have a nice day and that he would pass another note to "support" to explain that it happened again.

I did however cash out for $100 (plus the $30 fee for a bankwire) so we'll see what happens!


Damning evidence indeed, this was a problem known about by front line CS, but they denied it at first and tried to say it was YOU that had submitted a withdrawal, and voided your bonus & winnings by doing so.

It's also a very odd "accident" indeed. If some vague system error can "accidentally" make financial transactions on players' accounts without much in the way of a definitive audit trail, it makes one highly suspicious of what can be done "deliberately" on a players' account by a rogue casino.

There have been many complaints about transactions being made on players' RTG accounts without their knowledge, with CS claiming that the only way it could happen is if the player somehow initiated it, or triggered an automated action such as playing a prohibited game, meeting WR on a max cashout bonus, etc.

Dodging the question about UK offices is also worrying, as this is something they proudly boast of on their "about us", so why would they brief their CS to avoid the issue?
 

mrmark21

Dormant Account
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Location
australia
There's Tip Top Bread in Australia, seeing tip top casino made me laugh. Lesson, don't play when your tanked, cause when your sober a casino name like this, you'd avoid :D

I actually have some of Tip Top's whitebread in my pantry at the moment. Yeah I'd never play at a casino named after a brand of bread :eek2:
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
For what it's worth (probably not much!) the operator and owner is listed as I-Services NV, which claims to have been in the online gambling business since 2004.

Isn't this the owner of Free Spin Casino?
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
For what it's worth (probably not much!) the operator and owner is listed as I-Services NV, which claims to have been in the online gambling business since 2004.

Isn't this the owner of Free Spin Casino?

Yes, you're right - Free Spin and Cherry Gold. From Cherry Gold's T&Cs page:

This website is owned and operated by Seaside Payment Services Ltd, 150 Psaila Street, Birkirkara, Malta. The service is licensed by I-Services N.V., the holding company of Seaside Payment Solutions.

I haven't really played at those RTGs, but I don't believe they're bad, are they?
 

nepatsfan01

Dormant Account
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Location
USA
Yes, you're right - Free Spin and Cherry Gold. From Cherry Gold's T&Cs page:



I haven't really played at those RTGs, but I don't believe they're bad, are they?

I wouldn't say they are bad... but they have definitely gone downhill since they were actually good. They introduced the dreaded 10x max cashout when you take a bonus which to me says a lot about a casino. I understand bonuses are a choice, but I feel they have had some "roguish" behavior for sure.

By the way, I did find out today that there is a sister casino to Tip Top and that is Exclusive Casino which also just opened. I know this because on Monday I had requested the document that you always have to sign in order to cash out (there were no forms at all on their site or casino itself, no direction as to who to send it to, no nothing). I finally received it today (Wednesday) and it just kept saying all the terms pertained to "Exclusive Casino" so they have opened both very recently.

I don't know. I sent back in my documents and we'll see what happens! I'm definitely not rushing to judgement but when you have so many red flags it is hard not to think the worst about this casino.
 
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