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Complaint or is it?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by joseph1985, Feb 16, 2016.

    Feb 16, 2016
  1. joseph1985

    joseph1985 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    UK
    Hi all,

    I am new to this website but I'm really impressed with the service.
    I was hoping someone could offer some advice. I am admittedly a compulsive gambler, although I think I may be getting on top of my problem, I have self-excluded from any gaming websites I have ever been involved with and don't do any other gambling other than the stuff I did online.

    Recently, I joined Foxybingo and deposited £200, £300 and £500 (£1000 total). I struck a bonus on the last few spins and managed to win £3000.00 (Hooray).
    I made my withdrawal and uploaded my documents for verification, I received an email confirming receipt of the documents and acknowledgement of my withdrawal. So far so good.
    I then received an email the following day informing me that my account was suspended as I had previously self excluded on another casino owned by Cassava enterprises. I don't know which casino this is but I also don't deny it either as I have definitely seen a few emails from Cassava over the last few years so fair enough on this point.

    Foxybingo, whilst suspending my account have said that they will return my initial deposit of £1000.00, I was just wondering if I have any entitlement to the other £2000.00 that I won fairly and squarely or whether I need to call it a draw and see this as Karma for gambling again in the first place?

    Thanks in advance.

    Joe
     
  2. Feb 16, 2016
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    If you self exclude for gambling problems, then you are SOL. You are lucky to get your deposit back. If you were in Vegas, they would have just shown you the door.

    The problem is that some casino groups are slow in identifying those who have SE'd from their sister sites. This is what you are experiencing. Unfortunately, there are loads of players who are trying to exploit this and are expecting casinos to pay out winnings if they win, and refund deposits if they lose. This is why you will never see your winnings. You didn't win them "fair and square", you told them that you had quit.
     
    4 people like this.
  4. Feb 16, 2016
  5. Matti

    Matti Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Business Development Tech
    Location:
    Sweden
    To bad to see that you got a relapse to your gambling addiction. I hope this incident will put you back on track towards recovery.

    They are doing exactly the right thing in this situation. You are only entitled to your initial deposits.
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Feb 16, 2016
  7. joseph1985

    joseph1985 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    UK
    OK, well thanks for the reply.

    I will be sure to thank Foxybingo for giving me a kick up the backside also.
     
  8. Feb 16, 2016
  9. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    You are very lucky that Cassava enterprises are giving you a refund, I have seen many cases in the last 12 months where deposits were withheld.

    Along with Every Matrix, Cassava run a very tight ship when it comes to self-exclusion - rightly so in my opinion - and you should always read the terms and conditions or cross reference the UKGC site on shared licenses before joining any new casino.
     
  10. Feb 16, 2016
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, fair enough but these 2 groups are renowned for lack of due diligence when it comes to cross referencing details. Coral, Grosvenor, Mecca, Sky, 32red, Paddy Power, Boyle, Ladyboys and nearly all the accredited sites will spot just one matching detail when signing up and suspend your application and tell you to contact CS.

    How the hell is a new or less-knowledgeable player supposed to be expected to not only read the terms but then do a fucking UKGC search via the license number which to him may as well be any one of the tens of logos at the bottom of most sites, in order to check for linked/shared-license sites??? Do the terms tell him to do that, and provide a link?? Do they f*ck! Because if they did they may as well provide the list anyway in the terms. It's OK for us smart-arses to pontificate about this, but think back to when YOU were naive!!

    It is fair and reasonable for this IMPORTANT information to be included in the terms viz-a-viz a proper list of linked sites to prevent this crap. CM are now requesting this of the accredited casinos, so why not the GC's??

    Cassava and EM specialize in taking no-lose deposits from excluded players because nobody in authority seems bright enough to prevent this VERY DELIBERATE and profitable scam. And the player has every right to his deposit back, as all bets should be VOID if the tenets of the GC are followed - just the same as they have the right not to pay him winnings as bets are void.

    I wouldn't p*ss on EM or Cassava if they were on fire.
     
    11 people like this.
  12. Feb 16, 2016
  13. joseph1985

    joseph1985 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for both your feedback.
    I do appreciate that I have been luckier than some in receiving my initial deposits back, however I know (from reading this forum) that it's my right to have my deposits returned.

    I must also say however, that I agree that a very large proportion of gamers will not read the t & c's for the gaming website when signing up and IMO it's unrealistic to expect that they will. Therefore, these gaming websites are at a huge advantage when it comes to situations like mine or for people that lose their stakes after self excluding on sister sites etc.

    For the record though, I am satisfied with th return of my deposit as I hope it will give me the kick up the arse I need.

    Again, thanks for all your help.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Feb 16, 2016
  15. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    It's not merely self exclusions, but understanding max bets, allowable games, WR etc. If you don't read the terms yet click accept, that's rather silly (and irresponsible) of the players.
     
  16. Feb 16, 2016
  17. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    Maybe this should be added to the terms:

    Foxy Bingo, Moon Games, Shanghai Spins, Slots Angel and Wink Casino are powered by 888 UK Limited and as a consequence of this, upon self-excluding with Foxy Bingo, We are also required to self-exclude any account(s) that You may hold with these companies. In order to ensure that any accounts held with Moon Games, Shanghai Spins, Slots Angel and Wink Casino have been closed and subject to the Foxy Bingo Self Exclusion agreement, We ask You to please send Us the usernames/account numbers of any accounts that You may hold with them. Alternatively, You can also contact Moon Games, Shanghai Spins, Slots Angel and Wink Casino directly. Your self-exclusion will be applied for the same length of period on all our sites. If for whatever reason there is a discrepancy between the periods requested on each site, We will apply the longest serving one of the two. In the event that there is a time delay between Us identifying the associated accounts or You notifying Us and applying the mirror exclusion, Foxy Bingo will not be liable for any Bets placed on Your accounts and reserves the right to void/cancel them.

    --

    I understand and appreciate your post Dunover, but a lot of responsibility falls on the player as he has already admitted a gambling problem. :)
     
  18. Feb 17, 2016
  19. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I hope you don't promote these scumbags? If you're aware of them keeping SE'd deposits (which they shouldn't be.)

    Anyway, Cassava have a lot more sites than those listed there - tens more. And they WILL use them to do the same.

    And the bit I bolded - void and cancel the bets ipso facto return the offending deposits. The player wasn't 'lucky'; he got what he was entitled to.

    Yes, obviously he has a problem which is EXACTLY WHY groups like EM and Cassava with their size and resources should exercise due diligence in their sign-up process to weed out these accounts like most of the other casino groups all seem to manage.
     
    7 people like this.
  20. Feb 17, 2016
  21. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    Admittedly Every Matrix and 888 don't block accounts at sign-up if the user is self-excluded, but 9 times out of 10 they close the account within 24 hours. Compared to most other casinos, this is much quicker then the industry average. Normally it is only when the player makes a cash-out months later he/she finds out the winnings have been forfeited.

    I don't condone Every Matrix's or 888s behaviour, but I did discuss this at length with senior staff at ICE earlier this month and was satisfied with their response. In accordance with UK law (and in the eyes of the UKGC) they have the right to withhold deposited funds as the user agrees to the terms when signing up.
     
  22. Feb 17, 2016
  23. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Pretty sure you are only entitled to a SUB at one Casino property. And while those you listed are perhaps the only UK licence holders, do you restrict your site from non UK members?

    They would not have even got their deposit back at all I suspect.

    I think most have terms about bonuses at sister sites. Which would be a little more fair if they listed them when you go to sign up. And some Cassava group casinos have closed, and new ones open.

    Years ago, I joined one. They had games not on offer at the casinos I played at. I'd belonged to CM at that point, but I'd had a period in my past when I joined a lot of NDB places. I know I asked chat to check before depositing at all. I did not really get a straight answer. I made a deposit without a bonus, and did manage a small cashout, which was paid in some kind of reasonable time frame.

    I worried they would find some reason not to pay it because of all the stories I had read, even without a bonus. After joining, I was pretty sure I hadn't joined one, but I believe they are on the No Can Do List, although I can't seem to find it.

    Winner-On-Net, the one I did join, right after the name is a Winner never Stops Spinning. After my post last night, that just put my teeth right on edge.

    I believe that one of the reasons they are so big is they do offer very attractive affiliate incentives, and I think they are smart enough not to burn their affiliates.

    You are the one that needs to go to bed with yourself Nicola, not me. Part of this is a response to your other thread. If you do promote them, make sure you put up lots of cautions to read the terms, and keep an up to date list of the properties. Or at least a Caveat that your list is only UK players, they hold many properties, but probably only licenced a few in the UK, not that unusual.

    Here's a dilly of a term:
    Earlier in that paragraph they refer to jackpots of 20K.

    Their terms are very long, and very legalize. I worked a decade as a legal secretary, and I know 6 or 7 years back I was too scared to take a SUB.

    But on the bright side, this took me to long tonight to play any slots

    I am more than certain it takes longer to build a portal and repeat business than on SEO and the biggest casinos.
    .
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Feb 17, 2016
  25. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    No, it's not. Try it yourself. Try and open a duplicate account at say Betsson group, 32red group etc. You won't get as far as depositing. Some will let you open the account and then decline your deposit method. But letting you play for days (Cassava) and weeks (EM) is unusual. I was at ICE and actually spoke to the UKGC's solicitor and action is due on the EM issue, they are aware of it. And what 'law' entitles them to keep void deposits? Their terms usually refer to voiding bets and don't mention keeping deposits directly. Regardless of the term the player signs up to, if challenged it must be established the term is fair. You know, we all know and the casinos know that keeping void deposits is certainly not fair. Hence they generally refund them, admittedly in some cases after badgering by the player.

    UK consumer law requires terms to be fair. Paying money for a 'real' gamble when all along it's effectively 'fun play' facilitated through the lack of due diligence by the supplier would certainly result in a court ordering a refund if challenged. The casinos know it too, hence their generally doing so. Then they wouldn't want the bad publicity regarding problem gaming and their lack of due diligence.

    Yes, problem gamblers will try everything to have a punt and will also likely play until bust, max out the latest credit card they've obtained etc. Therefore they are a good source of revenue despite protestations otherwise of the bad casinos. So when bust most will traipse off, tail between their legs none the wiser. The ones that DO win will then find they won't be paid, and then MAY ask for deposits back. Of course the casino will usually refund them, having already had big revenues from those that lost before attempting to cash-out.

    Win-win for the shyster casinos....:(
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Feb 17, 2016
  27. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Fully agree with Dunover ^^^^

    In today's age and technology it is an absolutely lame excuse that they cannot detect SE'ed players when they register at a sister site. At the end of the day people enter the same name, DOB, address, phone number, email etc etc..... not to be able to do an instant cross check with their database I just can't believe.

    What i can believe though is that it must be a HIGHLY profitable arrangement otherwise they would have done something about it. Period!!!!

    Greed, nothing else guys&girls!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
    2 people like this.
  28. Feb 17, 2016
  29. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    Spoke with my business partner today about 888 and three of their sites failed our 'rogue test' (number of complaints vs frequency + severity) so they won't be promoted from the outset.

    Just to clarify on a previous on a previous post, I have not met anyone from 888 - only Every Matrix.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Feb 18, 2016
  31. joseph1985

    joseph1985 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    UK
    Deposit returned

    Just an update - Cassava returned my £1k deposit after 3 days.

    If this little bout of Karma doesn't keep me from gambling, I don't think anything will!

    Thanks for everyone's feedback.
     
    5 people like this.
  32. Feb 18, 2016
  33. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    Great news the deposits were returned in full. I hope going forward you can combat your addiction and if you ever need help there are many free support lines available if you feel the urge :thumbsup:
     
  34. Feb 19, 2016
  35. prop82

    prop82 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Work in office
    Location:
    Germany
    Just a little note from me.
    If you want to stop gambling or take a cool down for a while, ist not helpful to read to much on this forum.
    Now you wantetd to discuss a problem thats something else. But otherwise i wouldnt spent any time on anything relevant to gambling.
    Just my opinion.
     
    1 person likes this.

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