Club World VS. CDS (Montana) resolution

Vinyl, according to Bryan's post below, CDS reversed their decision, as they had thought that the player was looking at the ClubWorld site directly, and not at some affy clone page. That's my understanding anyway. Is that what you get out of it too? So I don't see ClubWorld as refusing to comply with a ruling, when the ruling was reversed.

I see, another economy of truth from the OP. He mentioned a ruling in his favour, but not the reversal, so the thread title itself is misleading, since surely this reversal preceded the posting.

Now, the industry needs to SHOW us that they are as TOUGH on these rogue affiliates as they are on the rogue PLAYERS.

This means no more "good talking to" responses, but locking affiliate accounts and removing any revenue they may have gained through disreputable marketing. They should develop a way to be constantly on top of ALL affiliate sites, so no rogue could operate for long enough to make the profit worthwhile. This could be by using software, similar to affiliateguarddog, to track changes in affiliate sites, and ONLY allowing affiliates to use sites they have pre-registered with the program (this might also cut down spam, since using tags in spam would no longer track because they wouldn't have come from a site they had pre-registered).

I wonder also if it might be possible to code something into the download module itself, so that it would not function if stolen, or linked into from a fake site, forcing instead the player onto the real site, perhaps even with a warning that they had been looking at a fake one, and to read the terms again, or contact support.
 
Hi VWM,

I certainly share your pain with these affiliates, it causes us no end of problems and it is very difficult to prevent. They put convincing looking websites up with ridiculous offers to increase their conversions and leave our CS team to sort out the mess when the player cannot redeem the offer.

We have not paid this affiliate anything since the website came to light (this is probably the reason behind the redirect to English Harbour).

I spoke to the CS advisor who told Towik about the ban date at the time and she understood the question from the player was regarding when his account was banned, not about the date we excluded Polish players from the casino.

Kind Regards
Tom

Tom, this $hit is really starting to get out of hand the way it appears to me my friend. Check out the latest here
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Hell they've even renamed your casino.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

and their email address in the SPAM mail is clubworld@anonymailpro.com?subject=Gonchar and Judith Baugher <mudinmaniac@lycos.com>
:rolleyes:

You guys really need to get these ROGUE Affiliates under control here.
 
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Where's the payoff for this affiliate:confused:

All links are clickable, and they go to Club World's proper site.

Even the "download now" link has only this coding:-

href="http://www.clubukcasino.com/smartdownloadcasino.asp"><img src="_Common/_Images/nav_download.gif" border=0 class="navbar_link" alt="Download Now"></a>

It's direct, no affy tag - what's up with that:confused:

This smells of DIRECT MARKETING on contract, hence no affiliate tag. (just like contracting a company to send out a load of CDs).
 
Where's the payoff for this affiliate:confused:

All links are clickable, and they go to Club World's proper site.

Even the "download now" link has only this coding:-



It's direct, no affy tag - what's up with that:confused:

This smells of DIRECT MARKETING on contract, hence no affiliate tag. (just like contracting a company to send out a load of CDs).

Well the SPAM Email that was received did not look like something a professional marketing company would be sending out, here it is:

From: Judith Baugher <mudinmaniac@lycos.com>
To: xxxxxxx <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 4:45 pm
Subject: USplayers welcome


xxxxxxx,
Want to make big Money when playing online?

If so visit www.6dtree.com



To move yourself off this mailto:clubworld@anonymailpro.com?subject=Gonchar
%20mayflower%20romeglory
 
vinylweatherman said:
I see, another economy of truth from the OP.

VVW before making comment like this please read my post very carefully. I write that CDS has ruled on my favor and then confirmed this ... I HAVE NO INFORMATION that CDS changed this ruling.
 
You (CW) let him deposit and even mailed a promo to him. Just pay. IMO

And the person who thinks Warsaw is a village should go back to school.
 
VVW before making comment like this please read my post very carefully. I write that CDS has ruled on my favor and then confirmed this ... I HAVE NO INFORMATION that CDS changed this ruling.

No need to be upset on this. Just go to the CDS site and check if there are any updates. If not, Bryan could be wrong and CDS is still ruling in your favour. However, if they have changed their ruling, I believe you should post it here as well.
 
i just checked my 'account' at CDS and I see no new massage from CDS team, and that indicate that they didnt change they mind. I also check my intial letter to cds and I told them that clubusacasino.us is a fake site ... not a official CWC site as someone said earlier.

There is very important question now:

Bryan, can You give more details of Tom's quoted e-mail which says that CDS changed rulling? Im very interesed in date of this e-mail.

t.
 
Hi Towik,

The facts of this case are quite simple.

You are from Poland, and we do not accept Polish players in the casino. As such the deposit you made after the ban date was refunded to you.

It is unfortunate that this deposit was not prevented by the measures we put in place, and I do apologise sincerely for this.

We administered your account as fairly as we could, even paying out thousands of EUR on winnings made after the ban as the associated deposit was just before the ban date.

Kind Regards
Tom
 
Tom, this $hit is really starting to get out of hand the way it appears to me my friend. Check out the latest here
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Hell they've even renamed your casino.
Looks like that rogue site has been taken down now - I get a "page not found" error when I try to visit.

That was quick CWC :thumbsup:

KK
 
Hi Towik,

The facts of this case are quite simple.

You are from Poland, and we do not accept Polish players in the casino. As such the deposit you made after the ban date was refunded to you.

It is unfortunate that this deposit was not prevented by the measures we put in place, and I do apologise sincerely for this.

We administered your account as fairly as we could, even paying out thousands of EUR on winnings made after the ban as the associated deposit was just before the ban date.

Kind Regards
Tom


Tom,

While I appreciate that you had covered more than what you were supposed to do the remaining sticking point is the judgment by CDS. Did they have a subsequent ruling that overturned the original one or was it just that their original ruling was based on inaccurate facts and which should have been voided after you made some disclosures to them. Unless you shed some light on this the player wont be calling it a day.
 
Looks like that rogue site has been taken down now - I get a "page not found" error when I try to visit.

That was quick CWC :thumbsup:

KK

After doing some further Whois investigating, I'm not quite convinced yet that this was a rogue affiliate after all :eek2:

Maybe Tom could comment on this for us.
 
CWC

There are some things that Tom left out or just ignored. His deposit was returned but they should have also paid him his winnings. If they returned the deposit they should have also paid the winnings as the OP didn't know he couldn't play there.

I understand protecting yourself from frauds and such but this guy is not a fraud and played with the intentions of winning and then those winnings were denied and account locked.

He should be paid period. He signed up through an affliate of cwc and therefore they are responsible for paying him.
 
There are some things that Tom left out or just ignored. His deposit was returned but they should have also paid him his winnings. If they returned the deposit they should have also paid the winnings as the OP didn't know he couldn't play there.

I understand protecting yourself from frauds and such but this guy is not a fraud and played with the intentions of winning and then those winnings were denied and account locked.

He should be paid period. He signed up through an affliate of cwc and therefore they are responsible for paying him.

A compelling argument.

The ban on Poland was made on an ARBITRARY date, no doubt a "knee jerk" reaction to something that was happening involving OTHER Polish players, such as strong suspicion of players acting in concert in a manner that may be fraudulent.
The fact that the OP was able to make a second deposit was the fault of the casino CS staff, in not immediately locking the account after withdrawal, as well as failing to remove the player from the promotional emails list. I find CW can remove players pretty fast from the promotional emails list when they want too. The players that SHOULDN'T be getting paid are all those Polish players that created this situation, who no doubt were breaking the rules en-masse.
Do CW assert that the OP was indeed one of the mass of Polish players that triggered the ban?

Under circumstances where "emergency" changes to terms are made, it is NOT fair to rely on the clause requiring players to regularly review the T & C, which presupposes a 30 day cycle in most cases, with the expectation among players that terms are most likely to change when a new cycle of promotions is launched.
Here in the UK, there are laws requiring 30 days notice be given to a customer of any changes to terms and conditions that ADVERSELY affect them. Why should the internet casino industry be exempt from this, after all - don't they propmote themselves as LEGITIMATE enterprises, and are supposedly trying to rid themselves of the "wild west" image.

I sometimes wonder whether it is our consumer protection laws that scare casinos off from going for a UK license, preferring instead to go for the whitelist jurisdictions, or even the well known, but rather lightly regulated, traditional places, such as Kahnawake.

Under the new UK laws that permit courts to enforce gambling debts, the refund of deposit option often employed may no longer be seen as final in some cases.

The CDS matter is probably the most important, since the OP used this instead of going to court, and got a ruling in his favour. Now CDS have reversed this, and have told the casino, but not the original complainant. Since the OP says that you can log on to an account when you have a dispute, there can be no chance of their reversal email being tangled up in spam filters.
I hope either Bryan or Max can check this directly with CDS, and find the current status of this dispute, as if overturned, it would show CDS as incompetent in failing to notify the complainant, rather than Club World as having disregarded a ruling against them.
 
Well the SPAM Email that was received did not look like something a professional marketing company would be sending out, here it is:

From: Judith Baugher <mudinmaniac@lycos.com>
To: xxxxxxx <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 4:45 pm
Subject: USplayers welcome


xxxxxxx,
Want to make big Money when playing online?

If so visit www.6dtree.com



To move yourself off this mailto:clubworld@anonymailpro.com?subject=Gonchar
%20mayflower%20romeglory

Clearly SPAM, but what puzzled me was the appearance of the source code on the fake landing page. No affiliate coding was present, so what was in it for this spammer?
I could only see logic where the spammer was a "black hat" marketing outfit, paid an up front fee to "market" the product, which was done by sending out the spam.
This seems to be how it is done when we get those CDs through the post. I also received through the post an offer for a FAKE casino, with a link to a FAKE website, which redirected to the GENUINE casino behind the campaign. This proves that casinos use this up front fee method for marketing, and often do not know how the marketing is done. The fact that there is so much of this, makes me think that some casinos don't CARE how the marketing is done, so long as it gets results.

Maybe the way affiliate programs are set up is simply not fit for purpose, because despite all the complaints, the spam increases relentlessly.
 
Hmmm...

Can you get through to this site? I can't. From what you wrote it sounds like it was a copy of the club world site?

Lookalike landing pages on spam sites are usually set up by fly by night affiliates, and most casinos will shut down their accounts immediately upon discovery. They may even go after them for copyright infringement.

But there are also a lot of other reasons you may fond sites that are devoid of aff codes.

Blackhatters sometimes set up sites, spam them to get traffic there and then sell the sites for more money because it has traffic. Or, they wait for google to give it ranking and then sell links based on traffic and PR. Or, they wait for google to give it ranking and then use it to drive up another site by linking to it. Sometimes they just redirect traffic from it to a real casino - no link needed on the site, the affcode will be in the redirect. Sites like that don't aim to make money at the first step, they are accessory sites that are used for a different purpose. Lots of sites like that out there - the most prominent ones being ones that look like search pages and link directly to lots of places.

Stupid names like www.6dtree.com are a surefire indicator that it's a spam site of some sort.

There are also some legit reasons for a lack of aff codes - many webmasters redirect the link you click on through another page that has nothing but aff codes, but you never see that. The reason for that being that when they switch out aff codes, they only have to change it on that one page instead of searching their site for hours rounding up the links in question.

Just interjecting some possibilities here...

Anyway, I can't load the thing...
 

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