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Club World No Students Under 21

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by taxacab, Mar 7, 2007.

    Mar 7, 2007
  1. taxacab

    taxacab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Lewisburg, PA
    Apparently club world has this clause in there t & cs:

    12. You are allowed only one active account per household or per business address. Winnings will only be paid to players having ONE account per household, computer, IP address or business address. If you have more than one account all winnings will be void. Students 21 years old and under are not permitted to play at the Casinos. It is important that all Player details contained in the Registration Form submitted to CWC are true and correct and the information is verifiable.

    Does anyone know if this has always been in there terms? They are now closing my account because I am 21 and a student. I don't believe this has always been in there t&cs but I have no way of knowing. Does anyone know if this is a new change? I havent played since august or September so I believe this term may have been added since than.

    Furthermore if this has always been in there t&cs I believe that Club World should in all good faith pay the outstanding balance to me before closing my account.

    Lastly, since I initially tried to withdraw in late summer Club World has given me all sorts of flak. Delaying payment constantly and making up more excuses. At their request I have sent them the normal documents, gotten documents notarized, spoken with cs countless times and set up an ecocard account at their request, and yet they continue to change their tactics.

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
  2. Mar 7, 2007
  3. cyprean

    cyprean Banned User PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Sun/Moon
    I've heard of one case where a player was asked for a student id by Club World after the player had a made a small withdrawal. :rolleyes: The player was NOT a student and asked Club World for a reason behind this query. He never got an straight answer to his question - but now I know why they asked for it. They wanted to steal his winnings. The player was under 21 years of age at that time. The RTG software does not ask (MG does) questions about players' occupation anyway. Club World was just hoping for an excuse to not to pay.

    Club World was awarded the "Best New Casino 2006" award by Casinomeister. I must say I can't fully agree with this award. The terms are a little ackward and unusual. The trick they tried to pull off on that player was something that a reputable would not do. I wouldn't be surprised if a group like Virtual did this, but not a 'Best New Casino 2006'.

    I am also sorry about your money being confiscated (stolen). I hope you did not lose too much.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2007
  4. Mar 7, 2007
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Disappointed

    This is a disappointment.

    This term is full of traps and pitfalls for the unwary.

    Firstly, it is impossible for any player to knowingly certify that they are the ONLY registrant at a given business address. the bigger and more impersonal the business, the harder it would be to comply with such a term.
    Secondly, the term about students is more complicated than it needs to be, this is discriminating against occupation, and there are many occupations, or lack thereof, equally deserving of protection against compulsive gambling. Far better then to require ALL players to be 21 and over and leave it at that.

    Using the terms to confiscate winnings after the fact from vulnerable players such as 18-20 year old students is unlikely to help them address their possible problem gambling.
    The ONLY way such terms can be fairly enforced is by having players fully verified BEFORE they can make a deposit.

    I have to agree that asking a player to provide a "student ID" for verification purposes despite the player never having claimed to be a student looks like the actions of a casino fishing for reasons not to pay rather than a genuine attempt at verification.

    Now, are we certain this really IS about THE "Club World", and not a confusion with a similarly named, but less reputable outfit, perhaps "Club Player", or "Club Dice".
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Mar 7, 2007
  7. cyprean

    cyprean Banned User PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Sun/Moon
    Touche.


    I tripled checked this just in case. The e-mail requesting a Student ID originated from this e-mail address: This email is not visible to you. , so I think we got the right casino. Also the T&Cs match with the OPs story.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mar 8, 2007
  9. taxacab

    taxacab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Lewisburg, PA
    So do I have any hope of receiving my earnings? I feel like I was jerked around by them since August.
     
  10. Mar 8, 2007
  11. spooler

    spooler Dormant account

    Location:
    Canada
    Did you supply you date of birth or age when you registered?
    If you did and they took your bets then they should pay you.

    This student clause is total BS. What is it to them what your occupation is?

    If I were you, I would pitch-a-bitch. Since the CM has given a big award to this casino for 2006, he will certainly feel inclined to help. I hope he will bring up this student clause with them. I'd be very curious to hear their justification for such a discriminatory term.


    edit :
    I only just now realize that their terms exclude people who are exactly 21. Isnt' that :
    1 - unusual
    2 - extremely prone to being misread as the usual 'must be 21 or older' term?

    Very shady.
     
  12. Mar 8, 2007
  13. taxacab

    taxacab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Lewisburg, PA
    I'd be happy to supply any more information, emails and whatnot. I am a student, so I'd like to not get screwed out of the small reservoir I have for these situations, especially since it was a big win for me...
    Also, I just want some satisfaction, I had to submit my drivers license, notarize some documents, open up an ecocard account, etc.

    They had my drivers license and my DOB, so what gives.
    And after all that I get this email:

    "Hi Chris,

    The auditing dept seemed to have overlooked the fact that you are 21 and studying.
    The terms of use in the Casino do state that students under 21 are not allowed to play in the Casino.

    I am sorry about that but I have been told that your account has been deactivated.

    Regards

    Michael

    Cashier
    ClubWorldCasino.com"


    Is there anyone else I should try to contact?
     
  14. Mar 8, 2007
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I'm in the process of finding out what's up with this. This is news to me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Mar 8, 2007
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Contradiction

    This is a contradiction, the E-mail states the terms apply to "under 21", yet your account has been closed and you are OVER 21, even if by a few days, months etc.
    I have also seen threads regarding bans on new US players here, so this would be a reason in itself not to pursue the reopening of the account, however, you should pursue payment of the outstanding balance.
    If the term was indeed added after you signed up, it would be a case of retrospective terms application being used to void a payout, a big NO for an accredited casino, although there is nothing wrong with them refusing to accept further wagers from you.

    I am very interested in what this term is all about, and why the simpler approach of insisting ALL players be 21+ was not implemented.
     
  18. Mar 8, 2007
  19. taxacab

    taxacab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Lewisburg, PA
    Yeah, but how should I pursue making them pay me? Who should I talk to, because I agree, they should have said 21+. The entire thing is so they can weasel me out of my money.
     
  20. Mar 8, 2007
  21. taxacab

    taxacab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Lewisburg, PA
    I never plan on playing there again, I just want them to pay me what they owe me.
     
  22. Mar 9, 2007
  23. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    This is very insidious. What counts as a student? Are you disqualified if you work full time and take a class at a community college one night a week? What if you are taking a correspondence course? How are you supposed to prove that you are not a student? Are you meant to get a letter from every school, college and university in the country to confirm that you are not a student there?
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Mar 9, 2007
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Silly

    It's rather silly really, it is often necessary to prove you ARE a student, it's easy to be mistaken for a normal person:rolleyes:

    As I said earlier, there are many classes of under 21s that need protecting from excessive gambling, so why pick on students for protection, but happily prey on 18 to 21 year olds, perhaps just out of care, bored out of their heads on benefits, and try out online gambling because it is so accessible, and possible to start with very small deposits without being sneered at by B & M casino staff.
    If the casino is so worried about being responsible, ban ALL 18-21 year olds and make the term clear and simple, no debate about what constitutes "a student", as opposed to an apprentice, student nurse/doctor etc.
    If this term starts getting used to confiscate winnings from 18+ year old players because the casino deems them students, but still happlly takes money, and pays out, to young people in other challenging circumstances where they perhaps should not be gambling online, they should consider how this is going to make them look. Just like "a normal RTG"* I would say, rather than a cut above the rest.



    * So many RTG operators have behaved badly, that is is now an expectation, rather than a surprise, when you hear bad things about a casino, and then find out it is RTG powered.
     
  26. Mar 9, 2007
  27. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Apparently, this rule has been there since July 2006. There are several reasons for this rule, for one - there are a number of syndicates of students (players who are connected to one another) who commit player fraud. This is protecting the casino from a majority of this action. Fraud is extremely costly since you don't catch it all of the time, and it saps manpower and resources to constantly monitor this.

    I can verify these syndicate activities as well since I have dealt with these types of students from WA state, the UK, and Israel. This is no lie.

    I'm not saying that the OP is a member of a syndicate, I'm just explaining why they have this rule.

    Personally, I don't think any student under the age of 25 should be permitted to play since a majority of them are living off student loans and credit cards that they can't afford even to pay these off. They are tempted to "win big" and chase their losses. It's funny how no one here has mentioned this at all. There is no "trick" to beat the house, and many college students are drawn into this by "get rich quick" schemes teaming up with each other, pooling their resources, and just screwing everything up for everyone else. I'm all for banning college students just so it's done right.

    I've suggested to the casino to combine this term with rule #1. Lest we forget, it is the responsibility for players to read ALL of the terms and abide by them. This term was there when the OP signed up, it should have been up to him to have read it and followed it.
     
  28. Mar 9, 2007
  29. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Will the OP at least get their deposit back? I haven't heard anything mentioned.
     
  30. Mar 9, 2007
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    As far as I know - yes. They were returned some time ago.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Mar 10, 2007
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Students.

    I doubt very much this will put a stop to student syndicates. Since the vast majority of students fall within the 18-21 age band, why not ban all such players. Students who intend to run with a syndicate will simply register back home at their parents house. It is impossible for the casino to prove a player IS a student under such circumstances, as they can simply supply their home documents (drivers licence, passport, other pass card etc). So long as they don't use a student ID card the casino will not have a clue, unless the students themselves give them one.
    The first term about shared business addresses puts a stop to students signing up from their campus addresses in any case.

    To claim that students alone are so "evil" when it comes to player fraud that they need a special term for them alone, where other player fraud is dealt with by the usual terms, is an insult to the student community. Is it REALLY "player fraud", or are students actually just clever enough to beat the house on the promotional offers despite fully complying with the main T & C.

    After this fuss about students, this casino leaves themselves open to accusations of malpractice if they are found to be pulling 18-21 year old non-students into a world of debt through gambling, but happily promoting to that group through advertising and/or sponsorship.
     
  34. Mar 10, 2007
  35. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Now if only credit card companies would quit targeting college students.
     

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