Casino Complaint Club World Casinos Not Honoring Bonuses

[winbig]

This is ridiculous. I tried to claim the bonus code "GRANDMON1," which is posted for EVERYONE to view, on their website, in the promotions section.

There is NO mention of this offer only being available (from what I learned from Live Chat) to "VIP" players. This was NOT an e-mail offer.

I do have a full-sized screenshot available of the offer, in case they decide to try and twist things around.

It'd take a miracle for me to deposit another penny at this place.

Monday, March 30, 2009
Hot Bonus Day
Collect up to a $1000 in bonuses today! Kick start your week the right way.. WITH US! Its really a GRAND Monday! Claim the coupons below.

10 x 50% to up to $1000 coupon:GRANDMON1, All games permitted
Coupon Codes:
GRANDMON1

Terms

Terms -> Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

General Info
Chat start time Mar 30, 2009 7:47:51 PM EST
Chat end time Mar 30, 2009 8:11:33 PM EST
Duration (actual chatting time) 00:23:42
Operator Ola

Chat Transcript
info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
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info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Ola'
Ola: Hi Brian, how are you
Brian: good....I tried to redeem the coupon GRANDMON1, and it's not going through..
Ola: Give me a few sec please, need to have a look into your acct ok?
Brian: ok
Ola: The system is very slow at the moment, please stay with me
Ola: I am sorry I am not able to redeem the coupon for you as well. We can offer you 35% on your next deposit Brian (no max cash out)
Brian: why am I not able to redeem that specific coupon?
Brian: it says on your site that it's good for all of monday (today)
Ola: I am sorry this coupon can be given to a VIP class only, I do apologize
Brian: uhm
Brian: hold on a second.
Brian: you have this posted on your website
Ola: Sure
Brian: for anyone to view, and mentions NOTHING about having to be "VIP"
Brian: talk about bait and switch.....especially towards loyal customers
Ola: I am sorry Brian it is not up to me
Brian: if you can show me on your website where it limits players based on their VIP level, I will be satisifed
Ola: But if you are unhappy with this, please send us an email I will forward to the Promotion Department
Brian: can you put me in touch with someone higher up that can explain why this is?
Ola: Maybe they can prepare some special offer for you
Ola: Here is 01:03, the Promotion and Management are not in the Office, sorry
Brian: I can see why you guys were so slow in answering, with everyone visiting your website and seeing this promotion, and not being able to claim it, as I was
Brian: You guys posted this on your website, and there's no reason it should not be honored
Ola: We all the time try our best for our Customers and answering as soon as possible
Brian: if it was only meant for "VIP" players, it should have never been made public
Brian: so there's no manager in right now?
Ola: I do apologize, but please understand me, there is nothing I can help at the moment in this issue
Brian: yea, it's not your fault, but I guess there's no manager in right now?
Ola: Like I said here is 01:06 am, the only Customer Services are working 24/7
Brian: fine....what's the email address of both the casino manager and promotions department
Ola: Please, send us an email, I will forward it to the Promotion and Management
Brian: no, I want it to go straight to them, please
Brian: player's shouldn't have to go through a middle-man
Ola: email address is: support@clubworldcasinos.com please
Brian: or woman
Brian: what about the manager's and promotion department's addresses?
Brian: I seriously doubt that the manager reads e-mails directed to support@
Ola: This is the only one you can use, I promise I will forward it to the Promotion and Managament as soon as I receive it from you
Brian: why does the casino manager want to keep his e-mail address hidden?
Brian: there's many other casinos that publish that address
Ola: Of course they read, and they will answer you in 24h max
Brian: but "They
Brian: er
Brian: but "they" isn't the manager.
Ola: I am sorry this is policy in our Casino
Ola: So please send an email on the address I gave you please
Brian: yea, one that I can wash my hands of and take my money elsewhere....All RTG casinos are the same, and only the customer service and bonuses set them apart...as well as their loyalty programs.....a few things that you guys need to work on improving....
Brian: I know your hands are tied, but please pass these comments on.
Brian: thanks.
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxxxxx at the end of your chat.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

This coupon is online and i also received it by email and it works for me. And i am not VIP or at least i was never told I was.
Usually all their coupons work well for me. Except one time when they missed me in email....

So not sure...

 

[winbig]

For what it's worth, I did email them my complaint, and Ola was kind enough to respond letting me know that she forwarded it on to the Manager as well as their Promotions department.

From what I can see, I'm fairly certain that Ola knows her job and is good at it, so it definitely seems that only a certain "level" of players were eligible for this promotion, and not just a mis-communication by a CSR.

 

[silcnlayc]

Strange it worked for me too...

 

[footdr]

If posted on website it should work because.........

CW doesn't post VIP bonus codes on their website. Specific bonuses that you are eligible for are either emailed or "scoll across the bottom of casino software lobby page".

Does the scrolling info on your lobby show the coupon, if so it should work for sure. Also, you should have a "continual bonus" either slots40 or Slots 50 if you are a vip.

 

[winbig]

CW doesn't post VIP bonus codes on their website. Specific bonuses that you are eligible for are either emailed or "scoll across the bottom of casino software lobby page".

Does the scrolling info on your lobby show the coupon, if so it should work for sure. Also, you should have a "continual bonus" either slots40 or Slots 50 if you are a vip.

It was posted on their website, no doubt about that. Whether or not it was posted in the lobby is irrelevant.

Ola checked the system and told me that only VIP players were eligible to receive this bonus.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, I've sent the rep a heads-up on this. They're on-site fairly regularly so .. well, there it is.

 

[silcnlayc]

winbig? When I looked they were up to grandmon2 when I claimed mine (don't know how I will get rid of it, did it to see) I also noticed that there was a grandmon3 etc..maybe yours just expired since I noticed it had a 1 behind it and the 2 was being offered when I claimed it? Just wondering.


.

 

[winbig]

winbig? When I looked they were up to grandmon2 when I claimed mine (don't know how I will get rid of it, did it to see) I also noticed that there was a grandmon3 etc..maybe yours just expired since I noticed it had a 1 behind it and the 2 was being offered when I claimed it? Just wondering.


.

There was a "1" behind it when I visited the page, and not once (until Midnight today) did I see a grandmon2....

It's definitely an issue with my account, for sure. I tried to claim the "TOOSWEET" bonus early this morning that's currently listed, and it was denied, as well. I don't ever remember cashing out from CW, so it's not like I've been abusing bonuses.

Still no reply to my email...

 

[chuchu59]

I seldom play at Club World but they send me email promos practically every day and I have had no problems claiming any bonuses there. I am not doubting you biggie but I do believe they will honour their bonuses because they thrive upon players taking them up. The bonuses are uncashable and usually come with a 15x WR placing the casino at a distinct advantage. Even with cashable bonuses at Inet I usually bust out nine times out of ten. So I rarely take up the CW bonuses as I believe I am unlikely to be able to cash out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I was once officially "bonus banned" at Club USA - It happens. I pressed for a reason, and it really was as simple as the fact I had a big win. It was stud poker, $25/$25 ante/sidebet and I got dealt 4OK, and the dealer qualified

I checked my lobby earlier today, and all I can see is the "continuous bonus" promotion, and none of the website ones. "Lauren" has completely forgotten me (apart from the SPAM - which isn't REALLY her anyway, but a spammy imposter).

I can only assume that my earlier $8200 and more recent $2000+ wins were enough to scare them again. We know that the games are random, and their boni phantom, but do they?

Club World some while ago suffered "bonus abuse" through player specific bonuses being revealed somewhere, and being claimed by players to whom they were not sent. An omission in the software allowed this, and I believe this has been fixed by having coupons attached to individual accounts. A "denied" coupon can now be because of your specific account not being tagged as eligible, as well as the coupon having expired, or a misprint.

Coupons freely viewable on the website should be applicable to ALL players, provided they have not been "bonus banned" specifically, however their new lobby seems to provide for the display of coupons specifically valid for individual accounts, and it might be worth checking that website coupons are also being shown here.

I am sure the rep can expand on this later.

 

[winbig]

Well, come to find out, it has nothing to do with "VIP" level or "Bonus banning."

Ola apparently had no clue about what was going on, and was making up answers or something.

I'll know for sure tomorrow, and if I can claim the April 1st bonus code(s) listed on their website, I will consider this issue resolved.

Here's the rundown:

Natasha: Ok the reason why you have been emailed about this coupon is due to you have multiple accounts in the casino which you are only allowed one so this is why this has been sent to you, This coupon is ment for accounts with no deposits. Untrue....(talking about TOOSWEET code on their promotions page under "continual bonuses") so unfortunately we cant offer you this coupon.

...

Natasha: Ok this account was opened back in 2006 which has now been closed down.

Brian: what are you talking about? When was the other account created?
Natasha: 2006. but this has now been closed down so thats fine. but i can offer you another coupon to replace this coupon

Natasha: Yes Brian i do apologies but the system brought up another account. Bare with me one moment

Natasha: Brian, i do apologise there was an error on the system regarding your multiple accounts but regarding the coupon you wont be able to use this coupon still. But i can offer you another coupon unstead of this

...

Natasha: Yes that is what i am saying there was en error regarding the multiple account, You only have the one.
Natasha: The one that you are playing with now

 

[winbig]

STILL waiting on a response from the casino manager and/or promotions department.

Ola was correct in telling me that it depends on your "VIP" level in regards to what promotions you can receive.

But, they apparently don't give a !@#$, because they post these codes out in the open for anybody to see, and make players THINK they are eligible for them. I tried the April 1st codes they have listed on their website, but guess what? I was lied to last night...because they told me that I was once again eligible because the system had my account flagged as being a duplicate.

Then, they try to JUSTIFY posting these codes out in the open by having this clause in their T&C [EDIT: I don't even see this term anywhere on their website.]:

Please note that all bonuses and promotions at ClubWorldCasinos are offered subject to status. Please log in to your account and press the promotions button in the lobby or contact customer services for more details

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Steven'
Steven: Hi brian
Brian: good morning
Steven: You can redeem our continual coupons brian, slots35
Brian: I just tried the coupon codes for today (april 1) listed on your website, and none of them work...
Brian: Mystery Coupons: APRILFOOLS, FOOLSDAY, JOKERS, GOTCHA, HAHAHA
Steven: You are not eligible to claim these coupons at this time
Brian: Can you please tell me why?
Brian: these are publicly posted on your website, and there is no mention of any *extra* eligibility requirements
Steven: the promotions department, create the coupons for all players in the casino
Steven: Please note that all bonuses and promotions at ClubWorldCasinos are offered subject to status. Please log in to your account and press the promotions button in the lobby or contact customer services for more details
Brian: that makes no sense at all....I know it's not your fault
Brian: but if your casino is to publish coupon codes on your website, you need to honor those
Brian: if they are limited to a certain player's status, then they need to be emailed to them, *privately*
Steven: This is why the term is on the website
Brian: where? Certainly NOT where the coupon codes are listed.
Steven: not all players can redeem them, this is a decision made by our promotions department
Brian: you guys need to be up front
Brian: and post this under the coupons
Brian: NOT hidden somewhere else
Steven: if you wish to make a complaint please send an email to our support inbox and i will forward this to the promo dept on your behalf
Brian: I have
Brian: 48 hours ago
Brian: no answer.
Steven: it is under the general terms and conditions page all players should read before playing
Brian: Ola told me the same thing
Brian: you don't get me
Brian: you guys are pushing players away when you should be embracing them
Brian: there's plenty of other casinos out there that treat players much better than this
Brian: again, not your fault, so nothing personal.
Steven: Since you have joined us we have treated you very well brian
Brian: Why? by advertising continual bonuses that I'm not eligible for?
Steven: you have had many bonuses since joining Brian
Steven: also a lot of cash outs
Brian: a lot? you're funny maybe 1 or two tops, if that
Brian: Please pass this on to the casino manager and promotions department, and if they can't contact me within 24 more hours (this has been going on for almost 3 days now), they can feel free to close my account
Brian: thanks for your time and help.
Steven: I mean a lot in cash amount

*sigh*

I have better things to do...

 

[vinylweatherman]

"all" means ALL, not "some, subject to status".

There IS a term about coupon codes, but it differentiates between those on the website, and those ONLY sent out by email to selected players. It is these EMAIL ONLY coupons that are covered by a term that only recipients of the email are eligible. Coupons on the website have been available to ALL players.

They have made changes with the introduction of the new lobby, but have missed bits out, leaving a mix of the old & the new. Clearly, this is leading to confusion.

RTG has NEVER BEFORE had a facility to offer personalised promotions accessed through a personalised tab in the lobby. Club World introduced this with the new lobby, but didn't actually TELL anybody about this feature, and how to use it. It's not actually very good either, since you do not get the terms with the codes, and are told to go and look on the website, where, of course, ALL the other coupons are displayed, with nothing said about status.

Even though they say "subject to status", has any player ever been TOLD what their status is. I have not, yet at MGS casinos I can look it up easily under the "loyalty" tab.


Now, I happen to know the answer, and Steven hints about it in the chat transcript. It is simple, your "status" is REDUCED simply for WINNING. Win too much, and codes will stop working (except for the 35% coupon) - deposit & lose some or all the winnings back, and the coupons start working again so long as your personal profile follows close to the ongoing statistical expectations (in other words, the long term hold beats the short term winning variance).

There are an increasing number of accredited RTG casinos, so the answer is simple, if you have a big win at one, don't give it back hoping for a restoration of status, pick a new venue from the accredited list whose terms and promotions you find acceptable. Only when you have won at them all do you go back and accept that if you like the games, you have to lose some back before you get access to the coupons.

This is especially SILLY when SLOTS play is involved, since there are no sneaky "advantage" ploys for consistently beating the slots, as exist with many of the other games when a decent percentage bonus is involved.

 

[spearmaster]

*sigh*

Just when I thought you'd reformed...

Now, I happen to know the answer, and Steven hints about it in the chat transcript. It is simple, your "status" is REDUCED simply for WINNING. Win too much, and codes will stop working (except for the 35% coupon) - deposit & lose some or all the winnings back, and the coupons start working again so long as your personal profile follows close to the ongoing statistical expectations (in other words, the long term hold beats the short term winning variance).

You do not know the answer. If you do, show some proof, otherwise refrain from making claims like this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

*sigh*

Just when I thought you'd reformed...



You do not know the answer. If you do, show some proof, otherwise refrain from making claims like this.

This was what I was told in an email from Club world. Specifically, a big win on stud poker of 4OK with dealer qualified.
If a manager of a casino says this is why, it is proof enough for me, being "from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

I have also been told the same by the rep for Roxy palace some while back.

 

[spearmaster]

This was what I was told in an email from Club world. Specifically, a big win on stud poker of 4OK with dealer qualified.
If a manager of a casino says this is why, it is proof enough for me, being "from the horse's mouth" so to speak.

I have also been told the same by the rep for Roxy palace some while back.

So where's your proof? Just because you say a manager says it is so does not mean it is so. Do also note that Roxy Palace (MGS) does not make use of coupon codes within their software. And furthermore, what may or may not have applied in your case does not necessarily apply to anyone else's case.

A big winner is no different than a big loser, treat them poorly and they will not come back. If this is how they treated you then they made a mistake - but as far as I am concerned this is still hearsay and not proven.

Max has already directed the CWC rep to this thread and I think they will respond pretty soon as they should all be back from Amsterdam.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So where's your proof? Just because you say a manager says it is so does not mean it is so. Do also note that Roxy Palace (MGS) does not make use of coupon codes within their software. And furthermore, what may or may not have applied in your case does not necessarily apply to anyone else's case.

A big winner is no different than a big loser, treat them poorly and they will not come back. If this is how they treated you then they made a mistake - but as far as I am concerned this is still hearsay and not proven.

Max has already directed the CWC rep to this thread and I think they will respond pretty soon as they should all be back from Amsterdam.

Well, after I had a big withdrawal recently, I stopped receiving all the promo emails. As far as I am concerned, this represents a causal relationship between a big winning session, and the loss of the promotional codes. Since this has now happened twice, both times after big cash-ins, this is proof enough for me, despite the very small sample size.

The email I got from Club World spelled it out pretty clearly that it was the big win on stud poker that caused me to stop receiving the promotional emails.

Roxy Palace was different, I stopped receiving the newsletters, which I thought was an error, but support told me they had not run the event that week. Unfortunately, since the newsletters were available in the lobby, minus the promotional offer, I "called them out" on this, and it was only then that they revealed it was simply a matter of my cashouts being greater than my deposits to a threshold they determine.

Being "bonus banned" simply for winning is more common than many think, and represents a poor grasp of the mathematics of gambling, as has been demonstrated by a few reps in their postings. One clear example of this is the doubly redundant bonus restrictions applied to certain countries, where they increase WR because of playing patterns, and THEN make the bonus slots only, but RETAIN the increased WR now made redundant by the slots only restriction.

It is VERY HARD to get casinos to admit they "bonus ban" winners (it's terrible PR), but it happens all too often. I could easily PAB for each "bonus ban" I receive, and force the casinos to reveal to Max what is going on, but it would be a waste of our time.

The "proof" from Club World was in an email, and was quite some while ago, and long since cleared out of my email client. I do have all my CM PM's archived, and I may be able to find some proof from the Roxy Palace case. I remember reading it - just don't have it any more, and didn't see that I would be challenged to produce it to prove what to many is "bleedin' obvious".

I will see what I can find as corroboration for the hypothesis "casinos will bonus ban overall winners".

 

[winbig]

Here's their reply..

I replied back to them, so the saga continues. When are they going to learn that it's about the principle of the matter? I could care less about the promotion, but if it's listed in plain view on their website and there's nothing that says players may or not be eligible, then I should have a right to claim it.

If this was some retail store that had a coupon advertising something and didn't have any sort of disclaimer, then they would be bound in having to honor it. If not, they could actually be sued in court if they were doing it to enough people to get a class action suit going...or if someone wanted to take them to court for the sheer principle of it.

oh yea, second sentence:

What in the world does the volume of their player base have to do with how many PUBLICIZED promotions they are running?

Hi Brian,



We would like to apologize for this inconvenience.

I see your point of view, but we have so many players, there is no way we can list all class promotions on the website. The promotion offers are showing on the website just a general one. Plays do have a way of seeing what's available to them and that is by accessing the promotions section in the lobby. And we also email players who wish to receive promotional information with the promo's that are available to them.



In the mean time, I have created a 75% coupon for you, you can claim a great 75% bonus by entering the following coupon before your next deposit:



xxxxxxxxxxx

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact our customer services team, they are here for you 24 hours a day.



Kind Regards,



xxxx

Promotion

ClubWorldCasinos.com

Entertaining the World

 

[vinylweatherman]

Here's their reply..

I replied back to them, so the saga continues. When are they going to learn that it's about the principle of the matter? I could care less about the promotion, but if it's listed in plain view on their website and there's nothing that says players may or not be eligible, then I should have a right to claim it.

If this was some retail store that had a coupon advertising something and didn't have any sort of disclaimer, then they would be bound in having to honor it. If not, they could actually be sued in court if they were doing it to enough people to get a class action suit going...or if someone wanted to take them to court for the sheer principle of it.

oh yea, second sentence:

What in the world does the volume of their player base have to do with how many PUBLICIZED promotions they are running?

This looks very much like one of those canned responses. They have landed themselves right in it though, because they say they cannot possibly list ALL the class promotions, and therefore only list the general ones. These general ones, by their own admission, are for "all players", whereas "class" promotions are ONLY sent via email to players who have been raised into the various classes of VIP.

When I was raised to VIP, I could use all the general codes on the website, but I also had some "class" codes sent via email that were NOT on the website.

When I won that $8200, and later had a withdrawal for $2200 after playing some of it back, I was no longer receiving these "class" coupons, and now do not even see these "general" ones in the lobby. I cannot see how this relates to my "action", since the dropping of "class" PRECEEDED the sharp reduction in my "action".

Unlike some other sites, Club World do not have an easy way for players to see their "class", nor a set of criteria by which they can judge this for themselves. It seems to be operated on an invitation basis, and you can just as easily be asked to "leave the party" as be invited to come round.

I would suspect the coupons have to be listed on the website because that function in the lobby has a serious shortcoming; you can see your personal codes, but CANNOT see the related terms & conditions, so they have to list these "class restricted" coupons alongside the true "general" ones on the website, simply so that "class" players can check the terms & conditions without having to contact support all the time.

Unfortunately, many of the "fun" promos that go beyond the simple deposit bonus, such as the $150 for $500 slots challenge, and the "crack the code" promo, are "class restricted", even though to all appearances they look like general ones.

Although Club World have this new lobby feature, they didn't bother to tell players there was a new way to see their promotions, so those who were used to looking on the website are getting annoyed when they see all these codes that don't work.

Some while ago, whilst these extra promos (crack the code, slots challenge etc) were still run, they were ONLY visible in emails from Lauren, and were not visible as general codes on the site. The emails linked to the actual codes and terms via encrypted links. There was an incident posted about here where a player had managed to "hack" the system, and retrieve these restricted codes from the website. I would suspect this was done via some deep search process, or "scraping" software. Now, the codes that are unavailable to a player just don't work.

 

[winbig]

I think this thread needs a good *bump*, seeing as how Tom replied to another CW thread not too long ago....

Tom??

 

[clubworld]

Hi All,

We have a huge range of players and we tailor our promotions by separating the players into groups and offer different bonuses to each group.

Some players display characteristics which mean we have to be very careful about the coupons we can offer and so some groups are not permitted to claim the standard offers which we display on the website. We use a range of factors to make this determination and a big win is never a reason for being in this group - the stereotypical reason is cashing out a profit despite losing money on the games.

We are able to provide the exact coupons for each group in the casino lobby, as once you have logged in we know who you are and database can look up the correct coupons.

The problem that winbig is highlighting is that when people are viewing the promotions on the website we have no way of knowing which group they are in. As such we display the coupons that are redeemable by new players and the vast majority of existing players. This means that there may be some coupons for you in the lobby that are better than the ones on the website.

I can certainly appreciate that is it frustrating to see the coupons on the website and then find out you are not eligible for them, but it is normal practice for casinos to restrict bonuses to certain players and unrealistic to remove all the coupons from the website to prevent them from being displayed to a few individuals. As the terms say, the bonuses are offered subject to status.

I hope that this helps,
Tom

 

[winbig]

Hi All,

We have a huge range of players and we tailor our promotions by separating the players into groups and offer different bonuses to each group.

Some players display characteristics which mean we have to be very careful about the coupons we can offer and so some groups are not permitted to claim the standard offers which we display on the website. We use a range of factors to make this determination and a big win is never a reason for being in this group - the stereotypical reason is cashing out a profit despite losing money on the games.

We are able to provide the exact coupons for each group in the casino lobby, as once you have logged in we know who you are and database can look up the correct coupons.

The problem that winbig is highlighting is that when people are viewing the promotions on the website we have no way of knowing which group they are in. As such we display the coupons that are redeemable by new players and the vast majority of existing players. This means that there may be some coupons for you in the lobby that are better than the ones on the website.

I can certainly appreciate that is it frustrating to see the coupons on the website and then find out you are not eligible for them, but it is normal practice for casinos to restrict bonuses to certain players and unrealistic to remove all the coupons from the website to prevent them from being displayed to a few individuals. As the terms say, the bonuses are offered subject to status.

I hope that this helps,
Tom

With all due respect, Tom, nobody is asking you to take drastic measures to change CW's website or how CW markets promotions.

It would take a whole 5 minutes, IF THAT, to simply add a disclaimer in plain sight on the promotions page (at the top) that says that not everyone would be eligible for any and all promotions listed on your website. My main beef is that there is no disclaimer in place, and as you said yourself, one does not know if they're eligible for the promotion until they try it and can't redeem it. To be honest, I could care less about whether a bonus is listed in the lobby or on the website...if it's listed in a place that I can see it, I should be able to use it...

As it was said before, if this were a retail store and they had no disclaimer at all, they would be bound to whatever the coupon was offering. But, since there's no regulation, we're just stuck.

Hell, the disclaimer could even be added the next time that the bonus page in question is updated....imagine that?

 

[bb28]

We use a range of factors to make this determination and a big win is never a reason for being in this group - the stereotypical reason is cashing out a profit despite losing money on the games.

Tom

I'm confused by that comment.......anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[chuchu59]

Yeah Bonita, I am confused too. Would have made some sense if the bonuses were cashable but I understand that CW only offers non-cashable bonuses. So how can you lose and profit. Ah, maybe some players lose money on the slots but are left with a huge uncashable bonus and then bet big on table games. They could then reap some rewards courtesy of the bonuses.