Resolved Club World BS!!! NO PAY!

Jokeman55

Santeezy3z
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Location
Honolulu
Can Anyone help me. Club World is insisting I provide copies of all three cards I used at their site before releasing a withdrawal. One was a closed checking account. One was a disposable gift card. And one I provided a copy of.

Another thing is that when I just finally won, it was on a FREE CHIP.


All other documents are good. Haven't i proved enough??????

They never ask for anything when I deposit. I don't get it?????



Anyone, PLease. They owe, they should pay. Luis
 

jackieb7

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Location
x
good luck

you can try sending a pint of blood and a urine specimen then you just might convince them.. I know this doesnt help but I know how frustrating it can be. Good Luck to you.
 

AussieGambler21

Dormant account
Joined
May 27, 2009
Location
NSW Australia
Did you explain this all to them and if you did what did they say?

Also be aware that if you are planning on filing a PAB about this it's probably not too wise getting into all the details on whats happening with your withdrawal/dispute.

You should have a careful read of all the info available on the main Casinomeister site as to what you should do and what your rights and responsibilities are.

By the Way it is not too unusual for a casino not to request documentation until a withdrawal is requested which is why it is suggested that you get your documents in before you start playing.
 

farookh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Location
main street USA
re:

I've seen this before with other casinos and I honestly don't feel it is right to insist that you have the physical card images. What happens if your bank closes your account and tells you to destroy all the cards, while still receiving a statement and paying? What if a prepaid card is used and later destroyed. Not thinking at the time, you may need it later. IMO, a statement of the card, a bill in your name and ID should suffice. When someone doesn't have the actual card, they don't have it. There's nothing they can do in many cases. If a card is cancelled, a bank is not going to send you a new card.
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
Im not sure if this will help, but I know when i send off a email with all my id the email service i use keeps a copy of what I sent. Can you not open up one of the other emails you used to send off your id to another casino, and copy that credit card image for clubworld. I know with this group on my second deposit they phoned me saying all other deposits are blocked. Lauren walked me through sending off my info to them. This was my first time having to send it off to a casino, so for me this was a great help as a newbie.
I sent off drivers lisc. visa and wrote out the fax back form and all was accepted within the hour.
If your computer email system does not keep a copy of your emails you forwarded, try asking another casino that has your info to send you a copy of what you sent them.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Can Anyone help me. Club World is insisting I provide copies of all three cards I used at their site before releasing a withdrawal. One was a closed checking account. One was a disposable gift card. And one I provided a copy of.
Another thing is that when I just finally won, it was on a FREE CHIP.
All other documents are good. Haven't i proved enough??????
They never ask for anything when I deposit. I don't get it?????
Anyone, Please. They owe, they should pay. Luis
I agree what they are asking for is totally ridiculous.

Have you tried contacting the rep Tom here? If not PM him:-
Link Outdated / Removed
(I think Tom might be on holiday, so copy your PM to CWC-Martyn)

I'm sure he can help sort this out for you and avoid a PaB.

KK
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
Can Anyone help me. Club World is insisting I provide copies of all three cards I used at their site before releasing a withdrawal. One was a closed checking account. One was a disposable gift card. And one I provided a copy of.

Another thing is that when I just finally won, it was on a FREE CHIP.


All other documents are good. Haven't i proved enough??????

They never ask for anything when I deposit. I don't get it?????



Anyone, PLease. They owe, they should pay. Luis

KK to some point I do agree with you, but in all fairness lets look at this from clubworlds view. If they won on a free chip how are they suppose to pay this player. The only deposits they have made was on a disposable credit card and one from a checking account. Now the player did not say what id they did send off, was it a valid drivers permit and updated phone bill. If they have opened a ewallet account their info so club could pay them. If its a private check they are looking for then more id is needed plus the amount allowed to win on a free chip does not cover the amount allowed to withdraw.

And a little surprised that club has not asked for their id prior to this. My friend is on their second deposit and sure enough club wants their id for a 3rd deposit.

Luis there must be something you can use for photo id. Even a bank statement, and block out the numbers just leave your name on their so they can verify it with your verification papers.
 

jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
Can Anyone help me. Club World is insisting I provide copies of all three cards I used at their site before releasing a withdrawal. One was a closed checking account. One was a disposable gift card. And one I provided a copy of.

Another thing is that when I just finally won, it was on a FREE CHIP.


All other documents are good. Haven't i proved enough??????

They never ask for anything when I deposit. I don't get it?????



Anyone, PLease. They owe, they should pay. Luis

A letter from said bank that you had such an such credit card on that account ask for a letter of CC# you can say it is for a Ebay dispute

I dont use the gift cards but dont you have to register them somewhere or activate them if so they should have a record

an so you provided a copy of 1 so I think maybe try the above suggestions
an by all means Good Luck also next time save the cards no cash on them what damage can they do by keeping them cept to say wow I loaded that many cards an gambled online
again Good Luck
Cindy:rolleyes:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
A letter from said bank that you had such an such credit card on that account ask for a letter of CC# you can say it is for a Ebay dispute

I dont use the gift cards but dont you have to register them somewhere or activate them if so they should have a record

an so you provided a copy of 1 so I think maybe try the above suggestions
an by all means Good Luck also next time save the cards no cash on them what damage can they do by keeping them cept to say wow I loaded that many cards an gambled online
again Good Luck
Cindy:rolleyes:

The problem is how long? These requests seem to have no backward limit. You might save them for a year, think all is fine, and get a request out of the blue for a card used over a year ago.

Gift cards do not have statements, and once gone are gone without any record being left - the record, or "image" of such a card is the transaction itself, and the casino will already have a record of this, but the player will NOT have a separate record. Casinos know damn well this is how GIFT cards work, and they know DAMN WELL what has to be done for US based players, who have long had to use disposable gift cards rather than credit cards. Front line support are too keen to run rings around a player rather than admit they are out of their depth with an issue and refer it up the chain. No doubt their script states that it should be simple for a player to provide an image of a currently used normal credit card, but fail to recognise that this does NOT apply to gift cards, or indeed closed accounts where the bank has insisted on destruction or return of the card WHICH IS ALSO FOR SECURITY REASONS.

Not being able to provide a card BECAUSE YOU NO LONGER HAVE IT is NOT "player fraud", and casinos should NOT be using this to avoid paying out.
It is PERFECTLY REASONABLE for a player to no longer have an EXPIRED card, or one for a closed account. What is UNREASONABLE is for a player to be currently using a card yet be claiming "not to have it" and unable to provide an image - this would be where there would be strong indications for potential fraud, using the card details from a card they don't own.

This kind of thing should go straight to PAB, because it seems the rep is on holiday, and Martyn is the rep for the affiliate program, rather than the casino, and may not be able to look into this efficiently. No harm in trying though, as it would depend on how close the two departments work together.
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
Right now i would like to hear more from the op. What kind of id did they already forward off is the question here. From the way im reading it, all they sent off was a copy of a bank statement that is no longer valid. What other personal id did they forward. If they have then yes a club world needs to address this issue. If they have not provided any photo id then this is what they also need to send off with their verification form.
 

bryand

Beach Bum
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Just Across the Hudson River
Not being able to provide a card BECAUSE YOU NO LONGER HAVE IT is NOT "player fraud", and casinos should NOT be using this to avoid paying out.
It is PERFECTLY REASONABLE for a player to no longer have an EXPIRED card, or one for a closed account. What is UNREASONABLE is for a player to be currently using a card yet be claiming "not to have it" and unable to provide an image - this would be where there would be strong indications for potential fraud, using the card details from a card they don't own.

I agree with Laura that OP needs to update this thread as my deposit/withdrawal experiences with Club World have all been timely and professional.
 

Kenny Lingus

Tard Counter
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Near Chicago, Illinois
I have said it before and I'll say it again - if a casino accepts your deposit, then, absent of provable fraud, they should be required to pay you any winnings...

OR ELSE THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ROGUE!

I know the CM disagrees with this, but I am still waiting to hear a good argument that answers the following question in the favor of any casino who utilizes this tactic:

Why is it OK to take a deposit without verifying ANYTHING, but also deny any payout until "proper verification" is produced?

The casinos want it both ways - to take your money no questions asked, and to deny payouts without you jumping through (at least) a few hoops.

How can that be justified as anything but an unfair policy?
 

AussieGambler21

Dormant account
Joined
May 27, 2009
Location
NSW Australia
It may be time that reputable online casinos introduce an early verification program.

Maybe an extra bonus could be offered on their first deposit or even lower WR etc if they verify beforehand.

It might solve a lot of these issues.

I agree with you on this one nifty although i think some casinos do already have an "early verification program" as you call it.

I say this because when i first signed up to 32Red a few months ago my account was locked and i was asked to verify my identity within about half an hour of making my first deposit (my first deposit was about a week after signing up from memory).

Once i completely verified my identity, my account was fully reopened and i have never had a problem since and have been a very satisfied customer since then.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... if a casino accepts your deposit, then, absent of provable fraud, they should be required to pay you any winnings...
OR ELSE THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ROGUE! I know the CM disagrees with this ....

You are misinformed. In general you've described the very policy we use to pursue the vast majority of the PAB complaints that we receive.
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
I have said it before and I'll say it again - if a casino accepts your deposit, then, absent of provable fraud, they should be required to pay you any winnings...

OR ELSE THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ROGUE!

I know the CM disagrees with this, but I am still waiting to hear a good argument that answers the following question in the favor of any casino who utilizes this tactic:

Why is it OK to take a deposit without verifying ANYTHING, but also deny any payout until "proper verification" is produced?

The casinos want it both ways - to take your money no questions asked, and to deny payouts without you jumping through (at least) a few hoops.

How can that be justified as anything but an unfair policy?

Keep in mind here the player won this money on a free chip. And from what i understand club worlds policy is still the same, after the initial deposit, they ask you to verify your account. If casinos never asked anything from us I can only imagine how many players would have multiple accounts to play these free chips with.
And yes i agree a few of these casinos have gotten way out of hand asking for id from some of us. But we are talking about club world here and most of us cm members have played there and know their policy.
So for club not to pay on a free chip is unheard of, I wish the op would come back and answer what id they have forward. If the free chip was loyalty points or managers bonus that would make a difference also.
 

Kenny Lingus

Tard Counter
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Near Chicago, Illinois
You are misinformed. In general you've described the very policy we use to pursue the vast majority of the PAB complaints that we receive.

Well that may be, but this point was discussed in another thread and CM said that it was not possible for a casino to verify identity before play as they would lose too much business. I will try and find the thread/post(s) for you.
 

Kenny Lingus

Tard Counter
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Near Chicago, Illinois
Keep in mind here the player won this money on a free chip. And from what i understand club worlds policy is still the same, after the initial deposit, they ask you to verify your account........If the free chip was loyalty points or managers bonus that would make a difference also.

It would only matter, in my mind, if the free chip was given without any deposit, ever. In this case, however, this player has deposited multiple times.

I would think that a first deposit with a limit of, say $250, without any verification would be fine by me. In my opinion, no second deposit (or large first deposit) should be accepted without verification unless the casino is willing to pay out without verification as well.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Well that may be, but this point was discussed in another thread and CM said that it was not possible for a casino to verify identity before play as they would lose too much business. I will try and find the thread/post(s) for you.

I remember this too but business is business and while not ethically correct, this is the way they conduct things. However, the good casinos are those who will not take advantage of this and hassle the customer with ridculous requests. In recent times, my docs were approved with amazing speed at Titan, Grandevegas, Cherry Red, Aladdinsgold and several other RTG casinos with the latter one a CW casino.

Frankly, while the argument of why a deposit is approved with lightning speed whereas a withdrawal crawls at a snails' pace is forever debatable the fact that operators dont want to lose business through verification of identities is understandable unless the whole industry conforms to the same standard. What we can do is to ensure that the operators do not use these as stall tactics where verification is loose on deposits but extremely rigid on withdrawals especially when sending funds back through the method of deposit.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Well that may be, but this point was discussed in another thread and CM said that it was not possible for a casino to verify identity before play as they would lose too much business. I will try and find the thread/post(s) for you.

Yes, but that's not what you were talking about.

When you wrote "I know the CM disagrees with this" it could be taken to refer to either your previous statement (that players should be paid in the absence of fraud) and your following statement (that identity verification happens at withdrawal time and not deposit time).

Obviously I read it to be the former, hence my statement to you.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Well that may be, but this point was discussed in another thread and CM said that it was not possible for a casino to verify identity before play as they would lose too much business. I will try and find the thread/post(s) for you.
There are a number of threads that include this :p

I should add it to the FAQ - or refer to it in the Philosophy section - it would cut down on the searching.

Simply put - ID checks are comparable to the system in place at Vegas and in many many high trafficked casinos. They use the honor system - you walk in the door, you see the sign "No one under 18 allowed", plop yourself down in front of a slot machine and begin to feed it money. There is NO ID check - it's only checked when you have a large cash out.

Same goes for online. When you sign up - the "honor system" is in effect. There are some casinos that require IDs within x amount of days, or when you cash out for the first time, or whenever they need to update their records. There are a myriad of reasons.

And for the umteenth time, I am merely EXPLAINING why this is so - I'm not condoning or supporting it.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
It is amazing though that 3Dice and Enzo can pay out large cashouts and never ask for the first piece of ID but ALL of the others can't isn't it. One of those things that makes you go...Hmmmmm;)

Maybe the rest of the casinos could confer with Enzo and inquire how he is able to do this.
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
OK, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. When you make a deposit at an RTG casino, or most any of the others, there is a credit card authorization form right there by the CC deposit option. You know that eventually you will be asked to send in docs if you have played online for any length of time. Why not just fill it out and send it in.

I just send in my docs whether asked for or not when I make my first deposit if I intend to deposit again. That way I don't have any trouble if I want to make a withdrawal. I also know that if I want to make a withdrawal to QT, I have to have made a deposit with QT.

I mean come on, it's the rules. You know they are going to ask for ID, Utility bill, authorization form and front and back copy of credit card used. There is no getting around it. I have never had any trouble with withdrawals except from Silver Oaks and I got paid there just took a little effort. :D
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
OK, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. When you make a deposit at an RTG casino, or most any of the others, there is a credit card authorization form right there by the CC deposit option. You know that eventually you will be asked to send in docs if you have played online for any length of time. Why not just fill it out and send it in.

I just send in my docs whether asked for or not when I make my first deposit if I intend to deposit again. That way I don't have any trouble if I want to make a withdrawal. I also know that if I want to make a withdrawal to QT, I have to have made a deposit with QT.

I mean come on, it's the rules. You know they are going to ask for ID, Utility bill, authorization form and front and back copy of credit card used. There is no getting around it. I have never had any trouble with withdrawals except from Silver Oaks and I got paid there just took a little effort. :D


Well SEASONED players know this, and many even have a preprepared set of documentation ready to go.

The problems stem from where a casino asks for something that simply does not exist. No matter HOW "reasonable" it might seem to ask for it, if something does not exist (for a legitimate reason), then there is no way the player can send it. If a credit card has expired, it is no good asking for a copy of it NOW, the casino should have made the request whilst the card was being used. Banks REQUIRE that we DESTROY obsolete credit cards, and players who have never been asked for card back & front before may not have ever made the images.
Saying a statement is "invalid" is more casino bullshit. It is valid for the date it was produced, and is FOREVER valid as a record of those transactions.

There are more and more posts about casinos seeming to take the p*** with ID checks, asking for an impossible amount of documentation that no average person is likely to have available.

Players are asked to trust the casinos, after all, most are not really regulated in any real sense of the word, so they should return the trust that they offer for the convenience of their business on our first deposit or two, and promise to pay unless there is PROVEN fraud, and then, if they still have SUSPICIONS that they can't satisfy, lock the player from FURTHER participation until they have satisfied the casino they are a legitimate player.

It is going to be the wrongly "accused" legitimate players that will drift away, the frauds will continue to try it on, and the casinos will be left with the frauds and "bonus abusers", because of an increasing number of legitimate players deciding that the passtime "isn't what it once was".
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Your points are valid, VWM, but what I was trying to say is why not go ahead and take the bull by the horns and send in your docs when you make the very first deposit. If you do get lucky, you are one step ahead.

I also have credit cards that have expired etc. but I sent them in back when I used them. Plus I keep a hard copy of the cc authorization and what I sent in a file. I know that sounds stupid but I'm a retired bookkeeper. I keep a copy of everything. :D

I know that Visa gift cards are easy but it is just a easy to get a permanent card from Netspend or Wired Plastic or whoever and use it.

You can't send in what you don't have, I got that. I am sure that Tom will work with the player about this.
 
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