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Club Dice Casino Won't Pay Me

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by mr_smith, Jul 9, 2003.

    Jul 9, 2003
  1. mr_smith

    mr_smith Dormant account

    I was drinking one saturday night recently and decided to post up $100 at club dice casino because I live nowhere near a real casino and I wanted to play some blackjack.

    After I sent my money, they automatically instantly credited me a $100 bonus. So I had $200 to start. Well after 5 hours of drinkin some beer and playing, I somehow ran it to about $480. I tried to cash out.

    Now they won't pay, ever. I am not eligable to cash out.Their rules indicate that players playing blackjack, craps, roulette, video poker, and baccarratte are NEVER eligable to cash out unless they play their deposit and bonus 20 times on other games ( slots).

    I could play blackjack there for ten years and would never be eligable to cash out. I don't play slots theyre boring! So I told them to keep the bonus, I never asked for it anyway, they put it in my account, and just send me my legitimate winnings. My account was at $477 so take out $100 bonus and send me $377. This seems very fair to everyone. They refused, citing their "rules".

    their "rules" are crazy. I don't want any bonus if I don't qualify for it. Just pay me what I won. Imagine winning $280 at blackjack in Las Vegas and they tell you, " Sir, I'm sorry, we can't pay you, our rules don't allow it until you play a quarter slot for 6 hours." What a joke.

    I don't wan't to get any bonus money. I believe its extremely unfair and ridiculous to refuse my payout over a bonus I never asked for and don't want.

    This "rule" they are enforcing is nothing more than a buried in the fine print license to steal winnings. I suggest all players avoid this casino like the plague until they do the right thing and pay me and adjust their rule to allow people who want to play non-slot games to be able to do so.

    I wanted to play some blackjack on a saturday night. I should be able to do so and cash out if I win. Refusing to pay me $280 in winnings over a bonus I don't want and was forced to take is outrageuos.

    They are going to confiscate A LOT of legitimate winnings from unsuspecting players like me unless something is done.

    I have also noticed something interesting. clubdicecasino.com has the rules posted on it they are enforcing. at You must register/login in order to see the link. different rules are in effect. these two sites are so similiar it is impossible they are not the same casino with multiple addresses. at casino-club-dice.com blackjack is eligable for a bonus after playing money 12x through. I am willing to do that, I like blackjack. So the very " rules" the casino is enforcing are not even consistent. One page says no blackjack another says blackjack with a 12x rollover of funds.

    Judging by the multiple terms and complete player unfairness of those they are enforcing on me, I suggest it is totally fair to all parties for them to remove the $100 bonus from my account and pay my legitimate winnings. If they want me to play until I have played 12 times through that would also be OK. I doubt I played that much so far. NEVER allowing me to cash out is crazy.

    I have tried to reason with them before posting here, but they have refused to pay so far.Any help appreciated.
     
  2. Jul 9, 2003
  3. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    mr_smith,

    Don't get me wrong here I totally understand your frustration.

    Unfortunately instead of contacting them as soon as you received the $100 bonus & asking it to be removed from your account, you basically accepted their " terms " and put the $100 bonus into play.

    As their terms state " Bets placed in the games of Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, or any Video Poker machine do not fulfill players' obligations with regards to the minimum wagering requirements. If you withdraw before having met the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void."

    Without wanting to use you as an example, this is why you must read the terms & conditions at every casino you wish to play at. I'll also add that it is advisable, that you don't gamble while drinking or when you are tired.

    Sorry I could not offer a brighter outcome.
     
  4. Jul 9, 2003
  5. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    I just wanted to say that it is not advisable to play while drinking alcohol or when tired, as one's judgement can be impared.
     
  6. Jul 9, 2003
  7. mr_smith

    mr_smith Dormant account

    glodge,

    their " rules" buried in the fine print are nothing but a license to steal. I realize on-line casinos have rules about bonuses. but this is an extreme case where the casino has gone way too far.

    they will never allow me to cash out if I just want to play blackjack.

    I don't play much with on-line casinos, but I do bet with on-line sportsbooks a lot. they will always allow you to cash out and if you have not met the requirements to get a bonus, they simply revoke it and pay the rest. that is fair. confiscating all winnings up to that point is theft, plain and simple.

    their rules must change.

    they have buried in theri fine print a license to steal. imagine you ran the casino with this " rule", your losers lose and most of your winners will not be aware that they are not eligable to cash out. this casino must have revoked an ungodly amount of winnings with this rule. so the losers lose, the winners get stiffed. thats not operating a casino, its stealing. the players don't have a chance.

    their is no reason whatsoever in fairness they cannot revoke the bonus, since I don't qualify for it under their rules and pay the rest of my account. if on-line gaming is going to make it as a business, casinos have got to pay winners and act in a fair manner.

    what these people are doing is unethical and larcenous.

    I don't want a bonus! they can keep it, it had absolutely no effect on my winnings. I bet something like $5 a hand and got lucky. the bonus was and is irrelevant.
     
  8. Jul 9, 2003
  9. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    mr_smith,

    Let me reiterate, I understand your frustrations. However the rules IMO, are not there as a way to steal money from players; not in most cases anyway.

    The bottom line is you accepted the the bonus, did you not? You then put this bonus money into play, did you not? Therefore you have agreed to the bonus play through rules.

    If you did not want the bonus you should have sent either an e-mail to support requesting that the $100 bonus money be removed from your account, or used their Toll Free phone number & requested the bonus be removed, before you commenced play.

    I have checked out the promotional page at Club Dice & IMO, the For Conditions and Limitations for the 100% bonus are clearly available via a hyperlink.

    It's not the casino's fault that you did not read the rules pertaining to the 100% sign up bonus.
    If you had, maybe you would not be in the situation you find yourself now.

    You do not have to accept the 100% bonus, it's your choice to have it removed or not.

    However as you did not ask for this to be removed, and simply put it into play, you have accepted the Terms & conditions that go with accepting the bonus money; in your case the free $100.

    Once you understand this, even though it's unfortunate, I can understand the casino's reaction.

    However in good faith I would send an e-mail to management or someone other than their CSR ( Customer support rep ) and explain your case. ( try this addy This email is not visible to you. ) request that your inquiry gets forwarded to management.

    One peice of advice, don't include words such as unethical, larcenous, steal or any derogitive name calling, as your request for assistance will probably fall on deaf ears.

    Last but not least always read the terms and conditions before depositing
     
  10. Jul 9, 2003
  11. mr_smith

    mr_smith Dormant account

    glodge,
    your focusing too much on the bonus. it is irrelevant. I am not requesting they pay me it. I ask them to revoke it and pay the remainder. that is completely fair to all parties, whether its done before or after play.

    that they will not do that should make everyone question them, not me.

    I played for 5 hours or so got lucky and won. they should pay. by making me play $4000 worth of slots now to get a bonus I don't want is unfair.

    by their rules, the losers lose. the winners either forfeit their winnings or are forced to lose them on slot machines before cashing out. that is not gambling, it is theft of winnings. its bad for the house too, theyre business will slowly die with this rule. they will not get or maintain new customers.

    its is wrong and should not be allowed to stand. there is absolutely no advantage on the part of the player who wins to tell the casino to revoke the bonus and pay the rest. frankly, I played long enough to qualify for a bonus, that I am willing to forget it shows I look for a fair solution. requiring me to play slots until I forfeit most or all of my winnings is a joke.
     
  12. Jul 9, 2003
  13. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    "there is absolutely no advantage on the part of the player who wins to tell the casino to revoke the bonus and pay the rest"

    There is an advantage with the bonus though! A bonus you can't cash out (i.e is removed when you cash out) is worth almost the same as a normal one and even more if it has no wagering requirements. For example. If you try to win $400 before cashing out, the bonus is worth about the same as a normal $50 one because almost half the time you will cash out $300 (after removal of the bonus) and half the time you will lose everything if you play blackjack cos it's almost an even game. On average you will win $150 on your $100 deposit. If you want it to be worth more than $50 you have to aim for a higher cashout than doubling your money.

    I don't recommend casinos offer non-cashable these bonuses though, because most gamblers think it's a con.

    How did you find club dice? Did you use the other URL you mentioned? That was a 'doorway' site that an affiliate used and probably didn't update. I don't think you found it from that though.
     
  14. Jul 9, 2003
  15. rainman

    rainman Dormant account

    you should not have played there. U accepted the bonus and did not tell them beforehand u did not want it.
     
  16. Jul 9, 2003
  17. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    mr_smith,

    Sorry but I don't agree.

    In this case you deposited $100 into Club Dice casino. Yes?

    Because you were a new player, you received a 100% bonus on top of your $100 deposit ( this was automatically placed into your account ) Yes?

    The bonus has everything to do with this problem your in now.

    If you read the terms & conditions pertaining to the extra $100 you received, you would have read the following :

    ---
    FIRST DEPOSIT BONUS POLICY

    You will receive automatically a 100% matching bonus after your single first deposit. The maximum bonus given is $100.
    Deposits are only eligible for this bonus if they are the player's first deposit at Club Dice Casino.

    Please note that as per our terms of use - "Only one account per household is accepted.
    If a second account is created it will be closed and the bonuses and winnings may be cancelled."

    This Play Bonus will be given only once per household and/or per account.

    Please note that in the interest of fair gaming, you must wager at least twenty times your bonus and deposit before making any cash outs.
    Club Dice Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates.
    Bets placed in the games of Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, or any Video Poker machine do not fulfill players' obligations with regards to the minimum wagering requirements.
    If you withdraw before having met the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void.

    Unless otherwise stated, this offer cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions offered by Club Dice Casino.
    The casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that player/s are participating in strategies that the casino in its sole discretion deems to be abusive, the casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such player to the promotion.
    In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.
    ---

    As it states above the bonus was automatically credited to your account. It also states that "
    Bets placed in the games of Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, or any Video Poker machine do not fulfill players' obligations with regards to the minimum wagering requirements."

    If you did not like the bonus offer you SHOULD have contacted the casino BEFORE putting any of this money ( bonus or otherwise into play ).

    As soon as you placed your first bet, you have agreed to the Terms & Conditions of this offer.

    I'm sure the SportsBooks that you play with also have terms & conditions to bonuses they give. You do not have to accept the bonus offer.

    However if you choose not to contact the casino to ask for the bonus to be removed, then the it's not the casino's fault if you put the your deposit & bonus money ( total credits ) into play.

    At the end of the day, you have not fulfilled the play though requirements of the the Terms pertaining to the bonus money.

    If you had requested the bonus money be removed from your account befer commencing play. These terms & conditions would not apply. However you did not do this, hence this is why your unable to cash out!

    If you ever decide to play at an online casino again, I would strongly suggest you read the Terms & Conditions before you deposit any money. If you don't understand them, phone the casino, contact their live support or e-mail them. Don't just play the bonus through, thinking you'll worry about it later if you win
     
  18. Jul 9, 2003
  19. whitteyford

    whitteyford Dormant account

    I must agree with Glodge the terms are very clear, no BJ, if you didnt want to abide by these rules there are numerous other casinos out there that do allow you to play BJ with a bonus.
     
  20. Jul 9, 2003
  21. mr_smith

    mr_smith Dormant account

    someone please go to their website and find the rule that states
    " If you don't want a bonus, please notify us before playing or our bonus terms and conditions will be valid once you place a bet".
    it does not exist. They automatically put the bonus in your account. If they had normal bonus rules, you have to play x amount of hands, etc. that would be OK. To accept post-up money and heavily advertise their bonuses like they do is wrong and very deceptive when you cannot cash out without running your money through 20 times on some slot game with a very high house edge, thus guaranteeing their are losers, and their are winners who are forced to dump their winnings into the slots. In the end, their are no winners.

    instead of offering an opportunity to play games like blackjack, all these people are doing is conning people like me into sending $100 and then guaranteeing that money will be lost one way or another thru outrageous " rules" which are buried in an obscure section of their website.
    thwe option to not take a bonus is never given. the option to decline the bonus before play or be subject to the bonus terms and conditions is also never given.
    don't defend these stiffs by adding terms and conditions and rules they simply DO NOT HAVE.

    I respect the differing opinions, I am not trying to start some flaming. But I do not believe it is fair to say the onus was on me to decline the bonus after they gave it to me. Nor should I be out of luck because I did not see a thoughoughly hidden page displaying the bonus rules, which are draconian.

    I played a lot of blackjack and my money has been there for about 30 days. Any sportsbook would pay me with a smile with those conditions being met. Club Dice insists I lose the money in their slots. I'll never be able to cash out unless I am very lucky, which I already was at blackjack.

    I have met a "bonus requirement" for any fair casino. I even offered to give up the bonus. They are insisting I give everything up and play slots till I have a zero in my account.
     
  22. Jul 9, 2003
  23. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    Bottom line is you accepted the bonus, you played the bonus, but you played blackjack, which does not contribute to the play through.

    That is 20x your deposit & bonus ( $2,000US ) is required before cashing in. Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, or any Video Poker machine do not count towards the play through.

    Personally I wouldn't touch this bonus with a 20 foot barge pole, as whitteyford said, there are better deals out there if you want to play blackjack.

    At the end of the day, as unfortunate or as unfair, unjust or whatever, it's best to simply IMHO to strike it up as a lesson.

    Always read the T&C's before depositing, if you have deposited & are still unclear, contact support before placing any of your deposit & or bonus into play.

    Added - You always have the right to refuse the bonus & or to ask it to be removed.

    (Message edited by glodge on July 09, 2003)
     
  24. Jul 9, 2003
  25. linda7

    linda7 Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    A mommy...best job ever!
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Hi Mr. Smith, I am sorry that you were unaware of the terms and conditions at ClubDice. However, one of your complaints is that they automatically put the bonus into your account upon making your deposit. May I ask you a question...since, you were unaware that blackjack was an ineligible game to play with bonus money, would you have accepted the bonus if you were asked "Would you like to double your money with a 100% match bonus"? I think you probably would have accepted the bonus since you did not know that BJ was an ineligible game to play. It is so important to read the Terms and Conditions at every casino, prior to depositing at any online casino. Perhaps, you could ask ClubDice if they would atleast return your initial deposit? If you ask them in a nice way, by explaining that you did not know that the $100 auto bonus was the same as accepting their T&C's they just might return your $100 and then atlest you did not lose any of your money.
     
  26. Jul 9, 2003
  27. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I couldn't have said it better myself glodge. Wait a sec, I have said the same thing myself in other threads!

    #1 rule of playing at online casinos is READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE YOU PLAY A PENNY OF ANY BONUS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS THEN CONTACT THE CASINO AND HAVE THE BONUS REMOVED BEFORE YOU PLAY ANYTHING.

    Unfortunately Mr Smith, you didn't do that. In essence, what you did was enter into a contract with a casino without reading it first. You 'signed' on the bottom line and took their offer without looking into what strings were attached to it.

    To use your analogy, if you went to a casino in Vegas and wanted to play blackjack, and a casino host greeted you when you walked in and said 'would you like a $100 worth of match play chips? You can't play with them on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Blackjack, or any Video Poker machine though.', would you accept it? If you did accept it and then played only on BJ and won a couple of hundred using a combination of those match play chips and your chips, should the casino then say, 'that's ok, just give us back the match play chips and take the winnings'? Of course not, the rules were that you couldn't play BJ with those chips. If you just kept them in your pocket and didn't mingle them with your own chips, then it would be a problem, but that can't happen at most online casinos. All the money is in one pot and there's no deliniation between your chips and theirs.

    You say they should just remove the bonus and give you the rest, but that is not necessarily fair to the casino either. Suppose you're playing the disallowed game of BJ and during your 5 hours of play, you went below $100. At that point, you'd have been busted without the benefit of their bonus and you wouldn't have ended up winning anything unless you redeposited. Is it then fair for you to 'illegally' use their bonus to help you to win a good chunck of change and then say, 'well just take back your bonus chips and I'll keep my winnings'? No. You should have read the rules and either refused the bonus or played non-banned games until you meet the wagering requirements. The other option is that they will return your deposit to you and void your play.

    They do have penny slots there, and with some effort, you can easily play out the wagering requirements in a few days and probably lose no more than $50. My suggestion is play Captain's Treasure for 1 cent per line. That is the best paying penny slot in playtech and you can actually make some money playing it (I've won $50 in one session playing that one for a penny).

    Oh, and Club Dice are not theives. I've won literally thousands of dollars from them playing on bonuses and they payed every one in 4 days. No hassles at all since I read and abided by the rules of the bonuses.
     
  28. Jul 17, 2003
  29. hip_hop

    hip_hop Dormant account

    Have these guys changed their rules? I went to look at the terms for the $100 match and they now allow BJ, only 4x playthrough BUT it is now a sticky bonus. Not bad, not great. The $225 bonus is the one with all of the no BJ rules.
     
  30. Jul 17, 2003
  31. jhartz

    jhartz Dormant account

    I took advantage of their 300% bonus offer on a deposit of $50.00. After I read the fine print and learned I had to wager 67 times the bonus before being eligible to cash out. I love their Playtech software and their low betting minimum limits. ($1.00 Pai Gow, Yummy!) On the time or two that I won, I got my money, although, once, I had a problem that was finally reconciled with some intervention. I still plan on playing there whenever they send me an offer that I think I should act on.
     
  32. Jul 17, 2003
  33. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Ditto here!
     
  34. Jul 17, 2003
  35. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    I'll tell you for sure. If Club Dice has a 67 x's roll over factor you would have to be out of your ever loving mind to play there. Not to mention the fact that a person would hav't to be very concerned about getting paid if they did win (against those odds).

    To have that kind of roll over factor tells me two things:

    1) They cannot have many players, because there are not that many players that would knowingly play against a factor such as 67 x's.

    2) They hav't to be hurting for bucks big time with a limited amount of players.

    Cipher
     
  36. Jul 17, 2003
  37. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Usually they only have that on 150% or 200% type bonuses. I took them up on one of those, it was like deposit 50 and get 150 bonus or something with $10k wagering requirements. I hit 3 royals on A&F for $1k each and cashed out with those + some. I wouldn't do a 100% bonus with that kind of w/r though, too much risk for too little reward.
     
  38. Jul 17, 2003
  39. jhartz

    jhartz Dormant account

    Cipher,

    I wrote a post but it got trashed because I'd forgotten to log in. Basically, I just stated that I'd try them again under the same terms. IMO, we are all fortunate to have the incentives that bonuses represent. If there were no bonuses offered, many of us would still play. The bonus system works because all of us are hoping to get something FREE! At least, with 67 times wagering on the bonus, I doubt Club Dice would challenge the payout with a claim of bonus abuse. lol
     

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