[CLOSED] Betdirect/MG robbing me of 1,200+$

[vinylweatherman]

One thing is clear the poker room has no legal right to KEEP THE MONEY. Whatever it's source, be it crime, tax dodging, etc, it belongs to someone, and that someone is not the poker room.
If the worry is about chargebacks, then the funds should be returned to Moneybookers in the name of the girlfriend, or the risk of a chageback still exist from that girlfriend who still owes the money, but no longer has it. If it was down to crime, it is up to the local police to investigate, and local laws will dictate what happens to this money.
Here in the UK, proceeds of crime can be seized by court order, and become the property of the state. They can then be used for more enforcement measures. It is up to the court to decide whether seizure is appropriate in individual cases, and if this story is true, I don't think this would happen.

It seems quite a few players still believe that chip dumping is a viable way to pay money to someone, but nothing could be further from the truth. There is no way the poker room can verify that this is just repayment of a personal debt, or passing on the proceeds of crime, so it has to take the more serious view and lock both accounts. Both these players now have to prove themselves, as well as come up with a good reason as to why they could not transfer the funds by any other means.
Even a personal debt could be criminal, such as a user owing money to their drug dealer, so even had the poker room been asked beforehand, they would have said no, and would probably locked the accounts in the belief that this was why they were opened.

 

[dunhill]

Keyser, I`m not seeking your sympathy, I`m just saying that they have overreacted.
I have decided that PM would be a better place for detailed discussion and have deleted several of my posts. The discussion here is just spinning around the same points (especially "WHY") without people listening to each other and me repeating the answers and the main points why BD/Prima are wrong. Your questions have been answered (perhaps in the deleted posts).


As it appears now, I`m not the only one who has a feeling that they have overreacted.

 

[jleonov]

Well, I am on MG side in this dispute. Chip dumping is not accepted in any poker room, even if its a "friendly" one. And poker rooms are not banks

 

[fatshaft]

Keyser, I`m not seeking your sympathy, I`m just saying that they have overreacted.
I have decided that PM would be a better place for detailed discussion and have deleted several of my posts. The discussion here is just spinning around the same points (especially "WHY") without people listening to each other and me repeating the answers and the main points why BD/Prima are wrong. Your questions have been answered (perhaps in the deleted posts).


As it appears now, I`m not the only one who has a feeling that they have overreacted.

Sorry Dunhill, but you can't come on and bad mouth a site, then when their response (via CM) loooks bad on you, and backs there response, you want to carry on via PM.

I have to ask, why your "friend" changed to being your girlfriend, and why a girlfriend can't just pay you, rather than going to the bother of opening two poker room accounts to chip dump?

 

[dunhill]

Well, I am on MG side in this dispute. Chip dumping is not accepted in any poker room, even if its a "friendly" one. And poker rooms are not banks

They didn`t say a word about chip dumping. And confiscating funds taking into account their T&C and absense of any harm or threat from our actions is wrong. I know that they are not banks, thanks.

 

[dunhill]

Sorry Dunhill, but you can't come on and bad mouth a site, then when their response (via CM) loooks bad on you, and backs there response, you want to carry on via PM.

I have to ask, why your "friend" changed to being your girlfriend, and why a girlfriend can't just pay you, rather than going to the bother of opening two poker room accounts to chip dump?

I haven`t said anything insulting about BD. I`m just convinced their reaction is not right. I`m not the only one who thinks this way on this forum. You do not, but that`s no big deal.

What response are you talking about?

If you read my posts attentively, I have always mentioned that my friend is female. Whether or not she is my girlfriend is not a concen of yours, neither is the way I mention her.

Last question has partly been discussed in my earlier posts (1st one) and in deleted post which has been read by CM. If he suggests that answers to that question would better be posted in public thread, I will repeat them.

 

[jleonov]

They didn`t say a word about chip dumping. And confiscating funds taking into account their T&C and absense of any harm or threat from our actions is wrong. I know that they are not banks, thanks.

I want to make my point more clear. Although they have not said anything about chip dumping, it was exactly that you did.

Remember, Poker Managers are not a special creatures capable of reading people minds and knowing players intentions.

And now let's look on this from the point of an ordinary Poker Manager:

1. Funds are being dumped.
2. The person who is dumping them is trying to launder money = money are from a fraudulent source.
3. If Moneybookers was used for the deposit of the funds, in that case, Moneybookers account was most probably hacked. Which also means that Moneybookers will have to investigate activity on the account in question and could request funds to be sent back to this account. This is the reason for confiscation on your account.
4. Other players could have seen the dumping on the table, which is harming reputation of the poker room/network.


And now think, that would you do in case someone has hacked your Moneybookers account, deliberately lost all funds on some poker site and a withdrawal from the account receiving funds would have been approved?
You would blame the poker room for helping stealing money from you.

 

[dunhill]

I want to make my point more clear. Although they have not said anything about chip dumping, it was exactly that you did.

Remember, Poker Managers are not a special creatures capable of reading people minds and knowing players intentions.

And now let's look on this from the point of an ordinary Poker Manager:

1. Funds are being dumped.
2. The person who is dumping them is trying to launder money = money are from a fraudulent source.
3. If Moneybookers was used for the deposit of the funds, in that case, Moneybookers account was most probably hacked. Which also means that Moneybookers will have to investigate activity on the account in question and could request funds to be sent back to this account. This is the reason for confiscation on your account.
4. Other players could have seen the dumping on the table, which is harming reputation of the poker room/network.

1. -
2. Poker manager may think whatever he wants to think. But when making some actions, like confiscating funds, it doesn`t matter what he thinks. it matters what he can prove.
He may think I`m Osama bin Laden laundering money to do some more bullshit. If you`re a reasonable person, you would think that the manager`s completely lost his goddamn mind.
They could have accused me of some crimes against humanity to make it sound more frightening to you. It is just as groundless as the fraud/collusion accusation.
3. Come on, we`re talking about them stealing 1,2k from me. Words like "most probably" just don`t go in here. Moreover, an ID can always be asked for to verify the account holder. Plus, charge back on moneybookers is impossible afaik. So no risk for poker room here
4. Not a great fu**ing reason to confiscate the funds.

But thanks for explaining your point, anyway


[/QUOTE]And now think, that would you do in case someone has hacked your Moneybookers account, deliberately lost all funds on some poker site and a withdrawal from the account receiving funds would have been approved?
You would blame the poker room for helping stealing money from you.[/QUOTE]

1. Asking for ID prior to withdrawal could solve this problem.
2. Hypothetically, what would be the difference for me (as the account holder) between poker room confiscating the funds (as in this case) or the hackers receiving my money...

 

[fatshaft]

I haven`t said anything insulting about BD. I`m just convinced their reaction is not right. I`m not the only one who thinks this way on this forum. You do not, but that`s no big deal.

What response are you talking about?

If you read my posts attentively, I have always mentioned that my friend is female. Whether or not she is my girlfriend is not a concen of yours, neither is the way I mention her.

Last question has partly been discussed in my earlier posts (1st one) and in deleted post which has been read by CM. If he suggests that answers to that question would better be posted in public thread, I will repeat them.

She started the story as your friend, which was strange, as surely a friend would just pay you rather than open a poker account to dump chips, you explained this by saying they lived a distance away. Then she became your girlfriend (you said this, no-one else), which makes the distance argument a bit moot you would surely admit, and the whole scenario more implausible?

 

[dunhill]

She started the story as your friend, which was strange, as surely a friend would just pay you rather than open a poker account to dump chips, you explained this by saying they lived a distance away. Then she became your girlfriend (you said this, no-one else), which makes the distance argument a bit moot you would surely admit, and the whole scenario more implausible?

Here we go again... As I said before, we both has accs at BD casino. She had a significant sum in it. There is no difficulty in opening a poker account if you`re already registered at the casino. As you might know, moneybookers has outgoing transaction limits and you might prefer to preserve them if possible, which is why she decided not to withdraw cash from casino and then send it via MB but use poker instead.
As for cash variant, read my posts attentively. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/closed-betdirect-mg-robbing-me-of-1-200.21618/

Your "distance" point is fabulous. You`re sherlock holmes! Did you not think that sometimes people do not live together, but have some kind of close relationship? And AGAIN, READ MY POSTS about cash/MB situation.

Now, is confiscating the funds a resonable reaction on all this? It`s like hanging a person for crossing the street on the red goddamn light. ABSURD, to say the least.

 

[dunhill]

And here`s a little update on the situation.
A few days ago I logged into my account and it wasn`t locked! I thought the situation was solved. I played at the casino a little and my balance rose to 1,310 GBP from 622 GBP. I.e. 2,600+ USD. I was asked for my docs prior to cashing out and sent them. Later I received e-mail from them saying that the whole balance would be confiscated.

Betdirect is now owned by stan james instead of 32red group.
The whole situation still remains unclear, seems that Prima/MG are STILL investigating it. MB has requested docs from me which were sent, no reply from them either.

Logically, if the cased is resolved, SJ will honor the winnings at the casino too, as far as I understand.

That`s it. Any advice/support will be appreciated.

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin note: chip dumping

Word is that this player, his "girlfriend", and two others had their moneybroker accounts locked and their poker accounts closed as well.

Chip dumping.

Bye bye, Dunhill.