Clinton Trumped!

[jetset]

Fair enough. We're all entitled to an opinion, whether it's about a candidate or his or her potential as a president and likely future conduct.

Staying with some facts, apparently (according to ABC) there have been 200 "incidents" across the US, allegedly by Trump supporters, since the election. I am not sure what the population of the States is at present, but that sounds like a pretty small percentage to me, indicating a small minority of fuckwits rather than gangs of Trump-incited thugs wandering around swearing at people.

These unpleasant creatures always seem to emerge in situations like this.

Nevertheless, if true this sort of behavior is no more acceptable than protesters running around and breaking things that belong to other people, and Trump was imo correct in his Sixty Minutes interview over the weekend to call for a halt to intimidatory conduct by any of his supporters.

 

[syntynyt]

https://www.google.ro/search?q=miley+cyrus+dick&biw=1366&bih=638&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjytoj5z6fQAhXIAMAKHdLzD0IQ_AUIBigB&gws_rd=cr&ei=0VopWOyAEcj9sQHzl5igBA#imgrc=_]
this model for kids and teenagers would definitely like to be grabbed.

 

[Nightfly]

Sure, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and thanks to California. A whopping three million vote differrentual in her favour. That's why the Electorial College Votes were implememted. To give the remaining less populeted 49 staes a voice in there opinion.

Trump won fair and square. And you can atribute that to the people who are fed up with United States politics. The working class, rural America and especially those of us in the rust belt. We made a difference. Not the shrunk population of the KKK. No, we are not disillusioned. We've become "Wide Awake In Ameica".

And yet those millions of Democrat voters who did'nt cast a vote had no faith in Clinton. I'm not saying Donald Trump has all the answers, but weather you like or not he is our next president. Give him a chance. Remember "United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[TheAddict]

A tool that i know, has just signed and shared something from change.org, along with 393 other tools signatures since 3 days ago that it started. A petition for mr obama to become prime minister of the UK.
But sharing & confirming more important news, Netent is bollocks.

 

[Mouche12]

I have watched many a debate in Dutch parliament and he has always said that he does not treat all Moroccans the same. He has said that as long as you behave you're welcome to stay.

He is consistent though regarding his hatred of Islam which is nothing to do with race and all about religion.

But his hateful remarks DID lump all Moroccans together, hence his appearance before the court. In fact, people (whatever their backgrounds) who "do not behave" will have to face criminal charges under Dutch law.

Also, his hatred of Islam does, of course, target thousands of peaceful Dutch muslims. There is freedom of religion, but Wilders wants to ban Islam and this violates the Dutch constitution.

 

[interlog]

But his hateful remarks DID lump all Moroccans together, hence his appearance before the court. In fact, people (whatever their backgrounds) who "do not behave" will have to face criminal charges under Dutch law.

I still don't see what is hateful about asking a group of people during an election rally whether they want more or less Moroccans? Would it been alright to ask whether they want more or less immigrants? Or is the latter not hateful? It is a storm in a teacup and a waste of legal time in my opinion.

As to those that misbehave, it is not uncommon for discussions to be had whether dual citizenship should be revoked. If I recall correctly, it wasn't instantly dismissed by the other parties in the Dutch parliament.

Also, his hatred of Islam does, of course, target thousands of peaceful Dutch muslims. There is freedom of religion, but Wilders wants to ban Islam and this violates the Dutch constitution.

I know that he wants to ban it, close mosques and also ban the Koran and he has made that absolutely clear. No legal process against that though despite it violating the Dutch constitution. Perhaps that is because the religion that he so hates is not tolerant of other religions too - a little bit of a quid pro quo maybe.

 

[Mouche12]

I still don't see what is hateful about asking a group of people during an election rally whether they want more or less Moroccans? Would it been alright to ask whether they want more or less immigrants? Or is the latter not hateful? It is a storm in a teacup and a waste of legal time in my opinion.

As to those that misbehave, it is not uncommon for discussions to be had whether dual citizenship should be revoked. If I recall correctly, it wasn't instantly dismissed by the other parties in the Dutch parliament.



I know that he wants to ban it, close mosques and also ban the Koran and he has made that absolutely clear. No legal process against that though despite it violating the Dutch constitution. Perhaps that is because the religion that he so hates is not tolerant of other religions too - a little bit of a quid pro quo maybe.

Apparently the prosecution (and other politicians) did think it was hateful because of its clear implications. Wilders could also have asked "Do you want us to deport Moroccans?" which comes down to the same: less Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent. I cannot understand how you could think this is NOT hateful: he paints a picture of certain groups of Dutch citizens being inferior, or behaving badly, and therefore should simply be removed from Dutch society...

Dual citizenship: under Dutch law people having two nationalities may be required to give up their other nationality, but this has nothing to do with Wilders' claim that certain minority groups who are behaving badly should leave the country.

Islam being intolerant and hateful of other religions is exactly what right-wing populists want you to believe. Radical (or extremist) Islamists make up .006625% of the Muslim population, they abuse Islam to commit horrible acts of terror, thus spreading hate and fear. But they are terrorists, criminals, and have no connection whatsoever with peaceful Islam and the vast, vast majority of people practising this religion.

 

[ternur]

He just says the truth. Muslims are most common to cause problems in the USA. Attack after attack proves that. Each american life lost proves that. He wants to vet them to protect the people of america. So what

That's a bold statement. Care to back it up with any facts? I ask, because I do not have the answer myself. But saying Trump is the voice of truth is streching IMHO.

I do understand, that "According to the FBI, the number of hate crimes against Muslims increased by 67% in 2015, compared with the year before."

To me, Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric (as an example of his views) is causing more problems than providing viable solutions. The problem with political populism is that it mostly creates more problems than solutions. In case of Trump, it's like witnessing a Kafka novel becoming real.

 

[lockinlove]

That's a bold statement. Care to back it up with any facts? I ask, because I do not have the answer myself. But saying Trump is the voice of truth is streching IMHO.

I do understand, that "According to the FBI, the number of hate crimes against Muslims increased by 67% in 2015, compared with the year before."

To me, Trump's anti-Muslim rhetoric (as an example of his views) is causing more problems than providing viable solutions. The problem with political populism is that it mostly creates more problems than solutions. In case of Trump, it's like witnessing a Kafka novel becoming real.

Care to back it up? Are you serious?

This is whats wrong with America. People so scared to even speak the truth or realize it. People fearing the backlash of social media and the media itself.

3000 people killed by muslims on 9/11 for starters than all the lone wolfs, boston bombings, 49 people killed less than a year ago at a night club, muslim shoots up xmas party killing 12, muslim suicide bombing in a mall in tennessee, isis supporter shot a 74 year old man in the head. I can go on and on here.

I think its absolutely wonderful he is standing up and actually doing somehting about it. Look at the disaster Germany is in because they are too scared to speak up in fear of offending muslims. Yet their country is being raped and tortured by them daily. Look at France.

Come on.

 

[ternur]

Care to back it up? Are you serious?

Yes, actually. I'd like to know. You stated that "Muslims are most common to cause problems in the USA." Then you quote a series of events committed by criminals. Do you actually have any scientific facts to prove that claim?

It's pretty naive to categorize all muslims as terrorists. Sure radical islamists can't be ignored and has to be dealt with. Do you not see the difference of are just ignoring it?

My point was that Trump's rhetoric is intellectually poor and serves little more than populist politics. He speaks the truth? Come on. You can't be serious.

I'm not trying to belittle your views, but I do disagree with your way of reasoning.

 

[interlog]

Apparently the prosecution (and other politicians) did think it was hateful because of its clear implications. Wilders could also have asked "Do you want us to deport Moroccans?" which comes down to the same: less Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent. I cannot understand how you could think this is NOT hateful: he paints a picture of certain groups of Dutch citizens being inferior, or behaving badly, and therefore should simply be removed from Dutch society...

Dual citizenship: under Dutch law people having two nationalities may be required to give up their other nationality, but this has nothing to do with Wilders' claim that certain minority groups who are behaving badly should leave the country.

Islam being intolerant and hateful of other religions is exactly what right-wing populists want you to believe. Radical (or extremist) Islamists make up .006625% of the Muslim population, they abuse Islam to commit horrible acts of terror, thus spreading hate and fear. But they are terrorists, criminals, and have no connection whatsoever with peaceful Islam and the vast, vast majority of people practising this religion.

The irony is that the policies of his party (anti Islam, anti immigration, dealing with the Moroccan criminal element within the Dutch society etc) are perfectly legal. Yet, when he puts policy items into words he gets into trouble and gets accused of stirring up hatred.

It is my belief that this case came into Court because some 600+ people officially reported the incident to the police. I hazard a guess that the majority of them wouldn't have known about what he said was it not for the media. A little like here in England people getting up in arms about television programmes doing something politically incorrect and complaining about it because they heard about it rather than having watched it themselves.

 

[shewoff]

I saw a show on HBO called VICE NEWS it is a weekly news show that supports the liberal and other parts of america that are unsure of the truth.There was a nasty bit on Trump supporter's that basically said that IF Trump lost they were prepared to start a shooting revolt.Now I have to say with these types of supporter's and all of the ALT.Right boneheads. It appears that Mr.Trump may not be able to control this part of his group.They are white racist and are not afraid to start a fight.

Please let's take a look at his 2 first cabinet members.The EPA director states that the climate change is just a silly lie? And his news man in the oval office is a noted bigot and all races other than white hater.This is just the start and it will get worse.

I know we don't have a choice now that he is the president elect BUT we are alone now the only real help that a vast majority of people in america now is each other and to try to support the things that we can change that Trump most assuredly will change.These are going to be all or most of the changes that Obama has spent 8 years trying to get done.Let's remember that Obama did have the huge mess that Bush JR. left behind.

This whole mess will only last 4 year's is what my wife says BUT I hate to say it 4 year's of Trump may be 47 month's too long.Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

 

[Mouche12]

The irony is that the policies of his party (anti Islam, anti immigration, dealing with the Moroccan criminal element within the Dutch society etc) are perfectly legal. Yet, when he puts policy items into words he gets into trouble and gets accused of stirring up hatred.

It is my belief that this case came into Court because some 600+ people officially reported the incident to the police. I hazard a guess that the majority of them wouldn't have known about what he said was it not for the media. A little like here in England people getting up in arms about television programmes doing something politically incorrect and complaining about it because they heard about it rather than having watched it themselves.

But that's not what Wilders said (i.e. a nuanced take on reducing crime rates), he lumps together all Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent: his remarks are hateful and inflammatory in many instances. There are international Conventions and Convenants in place that prohibit hate speech. Furthermore, the Dutch penal code prohibits both insulting a group and inciting hatred, discrimination or violence. If his remarks were lawful, he would not be facing charges, simple as that.

 

[lockinlove]

Yes, actually. I'd like to know. You stated that "Muslims are most common to cause problems in the USA." Then you quote a series of events committed by criminals. Do you actually have any scientific facts to prove that claim?

It's pretty naive to categorize all muslims as terrorists. Sure radical islamists can't be ignored and has to be dealt with. Do you not see the difference of are just ignoring it?

My point was that Trump's rhetoric is intellectually poor and serves little more than populist politics. He speaks the truth? Come on. You can't be serious.

I'm not trying to belittle your views, but I do disagree with your way of reasoning.

all those criminals are muslims.

There is nothing to disagree about and there is surely enough facts that have been provided.

Who stated all muslims are terrorists? You? Cause I didnt.

But most attacks on america are from muslims.

You have been provided proof. You either accept it or keep your stance of yelling from the roof top. PROOF I NEED MORE PROOF.

 

[interlog]

But that's not what Wilders said (i.e. a nuanced take on reducing crime rates), he lumps together all Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent: his remarks are hateful and inflammatory in many instances. There are international Conventions and Convenants in place that prohibit hate speech. Furthermore, the Dutch penal code prohibits both insulting a group and inciting hatred, discrimination or violence. If his remarks were lawful, he would not be facing charges, simple as that.

Because the prosecution thinks there is a case to answer, doesn't mean that they have it always right.

Even in Holland one is not guilty until found so in a Court of law. So let's wait until such time that the hearing is over to conclude whether it was or wasn't lawful.

 

[Mouche12]

Because the prosecution thinks there is a case to answer, doesn't mean that they have it always right.

Even in Holland one is not guilty until found so in a Court of law. So let's wait until such time that the hearing is over to conclude whether it was or wasn't lawful.

Of course the Court needs to scrutinise this case thoroughly, but it is evident that Wilders has breached several sections of the Dutch Penal Code and articles of several international Conventions. Whether he will be punished appropriately is up to the Court to decide.

 

[interlog]

Of course the Court needs to scrutinise this case thoroughly, but it is evident that Wilders has breached several sections of the Dutch Penal Code and articles of several international Conventions. Whether he will be punished appropriately is up to the Court to decide.

Isn't it for the Court to decide whether he did breach those sections first of all! You're talking about punishment already yet he hasn't been found guilty of anything as yet!

 

[ternur]

all those criminals are muslims.

There is nothing to disagree about and there is surely enough facts that have been provided.

Who stated all muslims are terrorists? You? Cause I didnt.

But most attacks on america are from muslims.

You have been provided proof. You either accept it or keep your stance of yelling from the roof top. PROOF I NEED MORE PROOF.

You did not provide proof, but here's some for you:

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.

Apologies, if I misinterpreted that you said all muslims are terrorists. Your view just came through as such on my screen. Mainly because I disagree with the statement, that "most attacks on america are from muslims".

We clearly approach the issue from different viewpoints. I have no problem with that. But I do think you are oversimplifying the issue a bit.

 

[goatwack]

The Ku Klux Klan committed a 'terrorist' attack in the 2000s?

What did they do, set a bin on fire in a black neighbourhood?

 

[lockinlove]

You did not provide proof, but here's some for you:

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.

Apologies, if I misinterpreted that you said all muslims are terrorists. Your view just came through as such on my screen. Mainly because I disagree with the statement, that "most attacks on america are from muslims".

We clearly approach the issue from different viewpoints. I have no problem with that. But I do think you are oversimplifying the issue a bit.

lol its fine. Politics is a tough topic. Thankfully I dont feel too strongly about it. I believe in my facts and you can believe in yours.

 

[ternur]

lol its fine. Politics is a tough topic. Thankfully I dont feel too strongly about it. I believe in my facts and you can believe in yours.

We can agree on this one.

Anything relating to politics is always subjective.

 

[Mouche12]

lol its fine. Politics is a tough topic. Thankfully I dont feel too strongly about it. I believe in my facts and you can believe in yours.

In fact, Wilders knew very well - beforehand - that his remark about fewer/more Moroccans without the adjective "criminal" would lead to problems. Still he consciously chose these exact words, according to members of his own party (the PVV). The witness statements are crucial for the public prosecution to proof that Wilders made a conscious choice.

 

[jetset]

Interesting article on Clinton strategy errors....from Bill Clinton's perspective.

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And perhaps confirmation from an earlier expert opinion?

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[slotplayer]

Interesting article on Clinton strategy errors....from Bill Clinton's perspective.

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And perhaps confirmation from an earlier expert opinion?

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yes, I had head from the media the Big Dog tried to warn the campaign but it went of deaf ears.

Thanks for the articles as they have more detail.

Despite his short comings, I voted for Trump for all the "joe the plummers" out there that have felt like second class citizens for a long time now, myself included.