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Your Input Please Clarity Of Related Casino Terms!

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by dunover, Apr 11, 2015.

    Apr 11, 2015
  1. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    OK, I start this thread not in reference to any particular case, but just what I see as a glaring omission in the T&C's of many accredited (or otherwise!) online casinos. We know CM will not tolerate 'vague FU terms' but I feel that a casino not listing sister casinos and also their stance on 'take a break' or 'self exclusion' is exactly that - an FU clause.

    It's so simple. The casinos as part of their criteria for accreditation should:
    (In fact the LGA's should insist on this but as usual lag behind where common-sense and progress are concerned.)

    1. List ALL sites they consider related and would therefore affect a player's bets should he/she have SE'd from one or more of those sites.

    2. Be distinct on how they treat SE or 'take a break'.

    Example>>>>

    "ACME Casino's Responsible Gaming Policy:

    We try to prevent accounts being opened by players who have requested self-exclusion/permanent closure for gambling-related issues at any of our other site(s) for the duration of that exclusion.

    Shagnasty Slots.
    Donkeydong's Den
    GayBar Games
    Vadge Vegas
    Penile Poker

    If, under these circumstances a player should however open another account at our site(s) they will not be paid winnings, all bets will be voided and deposits returned and the account closed by us.

    This does (or does not depending on policy) apply to the self-administered 'break' facility we offer in the player's banking or account section at our sites."


    SIMPLE!

    To this end, I would also suggest if this ever gets implemented which I hope it does eventually whether through CM or regulation from the industry then:

    IF a casino can be shown they did NOT have a complete, patent and inclusive list in their terms the day the player made the deposit and then later used the 'SE'd at a sister site' FU in order to not pay winnings, then if a PAB or ECOGRA complaint was lodged it would automatically go against the casino.

    For the sake of trust and integrity I feel that casinos should have to disclose to the player in their terms specifically which other casinos could affect the player's potential to cash-out.
     
    23 people like this.
  2. Apr 11, 2015
  3. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Go there often?
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 11, 2015
  5. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Seriously yes clarity is good and it should at least be given when a player requests self exclusion ("If you self exclude here, it will apply at all sites owned or operated by us now or in the future" - that kind of thing)
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Apr 11, 2015
  7. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    In total agreement!

    Especially after that thread from a week or so ago which turned into an attack on your good self whilst trying to advise an obvious 'problem gambler' who would have (probably not in his eyes) benefited if such a Term was in place / imposed.

    From what I read / see / hear UKGC are shit hot on this sort of thing so I do not think it will be too long before we see positive action on the points raised in your OP :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 12, 2015
  9. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Dunover started this thread but didn't want it to be in reference to any specific case.
    I'm not lazy but I've already written a lot about the subject in this thread:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66693

    I had plans on starting a thread on Every Matrix and Self exclusion, but dunover is correct that it's only the accredited casinos we can make doing this clear.
    Thanks for starting it dunover :thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Apr 12, 2015
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I've been doing a job today which involved trawling through casino terms at many sites for hours. Only ONCE did I see terms mention other group sites in their entirety.

    This is pretty bad IMO.
     
  12. Apr 12, 2015
  13. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    May I ask what group that was? An accredited site?
     
  14. Apr 12, 2015
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I can't bloody remember, other than funnily enough it was a Playtech one...possibly Mansion Group but I have had enough reading terms today so don't count this 100%....

    Ironically one site that DOES distinguish between SE and 'take a break' are on the NCD list: 888games/casino will allow access to the account for making withdrawals etc. but not allow deposits or real play obviously when you are on T-A-B. This is clearly explained as is the fact ALL access is denied under SE.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Apr 12, 2015
  17. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    Shouldn't there also be a clause for potential self-exclusions, and not just previous ones?
    Stating that if you self-exclude from this particular casino, you will also be excluded from casino x casino y and casino z
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Apr 12, 2015
  19. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Absolutely! Also if you self exclude through sending an email you should be told.

    This whole thing is making me feel bad. How many have been denied their winnings who didn't have gambling problems but just wanted to take a break from gambling? They just didn't understand that they were considered problem gamblers because they closed their account the wrong way.

    We have that example with him who sent an email and told he wanted to close his account for one year. No reason given.
    The reply back was that you have now self excluded for one year and will not be able to log in.
    If he had just sent an email and told he wanted his account closed then they had said, fine, you're welcome back whenever you want to.
    After a year he can just open the account again and start playing and they will be happy to see him.
    Something is wrong :(

    Why is someone who state a certain time a problem gambler while you can just close your account for the same time and then be welcomed back?

    Something else I wonder is when you see the options for self exclude you can do that from 7 days up to a year I think, or forever.
    What happenes if you set one month and the day before it ends you play at a sister casino and win? Sorry you're welcome back tomorrow:p

    Also thinking about these people who have had their winnings confiscated, their deposits back and the accounts closed...when the time is up? Can they just go back and play everywhere then? Pretending nothing have happened? Maybe it was just a few weeks left.

    I'm always the person who say we should be responsible for our own actions, and I still believe that.
    What I don't like is traps that people fall in because the rules wasn't clear enough or someone didn't think it was important to tell them everything (sister casinos).
    We have talked about fraudsters trying to open up their accounts again to either win and get paid, or denied but still get their deposits back.
    This have turned around a little now I feel. We are allowed to open accounts from where we never can get paid...and the worst thing is that we might never find out as long as we lose:rolleyes:
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Apr 12, 2015
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, that would naturally go hand in hand with what I'm suggesting. You would be aware at the point of SE that you will be excluded from the sites (and there is the list!) in the group.
    This is only fair as the action of SE is now telling the group that you believe yourself to have issues.

    The cynical side of me may suggest the problem gamblers are likely large depositors and therefore if a site has 4 properties say, it would be better for them if they applied the exclusion to just one and then took money at the rest - of course unless the player then wins and the fact they SE'd at a site they didn't know was related is suddenly turned into a big FU...:(
     
  22. Apr 14, 2015
  23. AffGency

    AffGency Banned User - scamming affiliate

    Occupation:
    xx
    Location:
    Malta
    from own experience i can tell that 888 does exclude you from anywhere .. ever site they have automaticlly and also mention this per support ( they did with me )
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. May 31, 2015
  25. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Not sure I would (yet) rate UKGC as shit hot on this sort of thing.

    Their last consultation was however helpful with terminology.

    Sites should offer a time out, that is allow players to say they don't want to play for some days or weeks. This might be say pre Xmas, pre payday, or a 24 hour one when they are planning a night out on the lash. These tools are helpful and distinct from self exclusion.

    For self exclusion they are lining up on a minimum 6 months with longer options and looking at a scheme for SE to apply to all UK licenced sites not just one or linked casinos.
     
  26. May 31, 2015
  27. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Self Exclusion to the side, It will be great also for the fact you would know if signing up to sister sites which only alow 1 bonus across sites which seem to be another trend why people are getting denied winnings,

    I do not think the it will happen 100% as we no that alot of casino's are hiding behind each other and if the full list of sites had to list such info it would not be long before before people start adding the dots up,
     

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