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City Club - Reduced my win

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Hazzab, Feb 8, 2012.

    Feb 8, 2012
  1. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    Hi,

    I'm new here (Hi everyone!) and hopeful I can get some advice please!

    I recently received a $300 bonus from City Club Casino, at the time I had just lost a few hundred dollars and my balance was close to $0 (I had depositied several thousand dollars to their City Club and City Tower branded casinos over a few weeks). Upon meeting the conditions for wagering, I withdrew my maximum payout (20xbonus) of $6000. The bonus amount was removed and no longer appeared in the bonuses table in their cashier section. Upon a reverse withdrawal of this money I proceeded to win and withdraw $55,000.

    City Club are now saying that my max entitled payout is $6000.- they are saying that the bonus (despite wagering conditions being met and the withdrawal being approved) is perpetual as "my winnings were derived from a bonus" and applies to my reverse withdrawal. I reason that if $6000 were my winnings and on my way to my bank account, and the bonus conditions had been met, and the bonus had been removed, that i am entitled to reverse the withdrawal and bet unrestricted.

    Their Terms and Conditions do not deal with this at all. Please Help.

    HazzaB

    - To City Club's credit they have paid the $6000
     
  2. Feb 8, 2012
  3. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    This casino has always been quite shady and had issues discussed in this forum years ago. I cant recall whether they were removed from the accredited list or were branded as 'proceed with caution'. The way I see it and I am sure many members will too is that since all WRs have been met you can play unrestricted and all winnings should be yours. Their reasoning is flawed. If they had paid you first and then you deposited and won would they then not argue that you have money in hand because you won from their bonus previously and hence your winnings are bound by the max for the previous bonus.

    Meanwhile, I believe they were not too cooperative in discussing player issues and that was before Max came on the scene. So I am not sure whether a PAB will really help. No harm trying though but you must read the FAQs first and stop posting if you take this course of action.
     
  4. Feb 8, 2012
  5. Jennifer

    Jennifer Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    stuff
    Location:
    canada
    ouch! 55k to 6k. That has to hurt omg I would cry into my pillow.

    I sinscerely hope you can work something out with them
     
  6. Feb 8, 2012
  7. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    Thanks Chuchu, I was sure that was the case.

    I'll go through the PAB process with my fingers crossed. Unfortunately I played with them before I knew about this site (only found this place while searching for similar complaints). Thanks again mate.
     
  8. Feb 8, 2012
  9. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    I cannot see the bonus you are refering to on their site, but I did read the welcome bonus terms which I am guessing are similiar to your issue .

    This bonus is given in good faith by City Club Casino in order to familiarize yourself with what we have to offer, therefore, the winnings for this bonus are set to a maximum of ten (10X) times your first deposit.

    Albeit yours was 20x the bonus, I am afraid the casino is in the right if this term exists. The max cash-out on a persons money is rubbish but if its in the terms then you have to abide by them.

    I am afraid that most casinos will not count a reversal as a fresh deposit, so you are still bound by the original terms. The only ones I can think of that used too were Rival casinos but I would not bother with them at this time.

    BTW if you liked them because they use Playtech, There are plenty on Playtech casinos without this silly max cash out rule.

    This is going to be a very painful 55k lesson and I am sorry about that as that is an awesome win.

    Cheers

    Matt

    Edit:
    City Club Casino is on the No Can Do List I am afraid
     
  10. Feb 8, 2012
  11. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    My pillow is already soaked with tears lol

    Thanks Jennifer
     
  12. Feb 8, 2012
  13. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    Thanks for the advice Matt, I'm actually arguin that the reverse was subsequent to the requirement being fulfilled and the bonus removed. Surely they can't continue to carry the terms on that?
     
  14. Feb 8, 2012
  15. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    :( That's no good
     
  16. Feb 8, 2012
  17. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    Unfortunately they can, and this outfit probably will..

    Take a free chip from RTG as an example..(I know yours was a deposit) They give you $20 with 30x wr and 20x max cash out ($400) If you manage to make the WR you can withdraw $400, if you reverse that $400 you are still bound by the original terms of the max cash out of $400.
     
  18. Feb 8, 2012
  19. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    Wow, I haven't ver had this issue anywhere else. Dodgy indeed.
     
  20. Feb 8, 2012
  21. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    East and West
    Yep, we've seen it before, unfortunately.
    It is probably THE stupidest rule around (closely followed by a few other ones, like the student rule, and such), since the money is all yours, and you should be allowed to do what you want with it.
    Stupid stupid stupid, and should be a lesson to ALL, never to reverse a withdrawal, when a bonus has been in play.
    I sincerely feel for you mate, and you have every right to the money in my opinion....but unfortunately my opinion doesn't count much in your case.
     
  22. Feb 8, 2012
  23. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    Thanks, it's an ordinary situation. I did ask them to send me the condition that applies to this (from their T's and C's) which they haven't. But from the sounds of things, that might not matter.
    It's a fairly small minded approach that some of these casinos have. I am generally a big money player and (should they do the right thing, be it even morally) then repeat business would ultimately see things swing in their favour eventually. Instead they throw drive their clients away as soon as they win.
     
  24. Feb 8, 2012
  25. Hazzab

    Hazzab Dormant account

    Occupation:
    GM
    Location:
    AUS
    I forgot to add another kicker to this whole affair - they waited 6 days to tell me all of this!
     
  26. Feb 8, 2012
  27. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Buddy, You are wrong in saying your opinion doesnt count. When the gambling community opines the same as you this might be taken as a requisite when regulation comes into effect. Right now, casinos interpret their terms in any way they wish and throw common sense out of the window. They are not accountable to anyone but their owners who are only interested in their profit margins. Actually, which casino wouldnt want players to reverse their withdrawals and continue playing? At the very least they save on processing costs and the player pulls the slots earlier rather than later.

    So dont believe your opinion does not matter though it may take time before momentum builds up.
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Feb 8, 2012
  29. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Well City Club may be a crap casino, but sorry to say that it's not just rogue casinos - most casinos who have a max cashout rule do this exact same thing. I don't think I know of a single casino that allows you to reverse a WD and use it as a fresh deposit when there's a max cashout, but if anyone knows of one I'd love to hear about it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Feb 8, 2012
  31. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town
    As I mentioned previously, the only group of casino/s I could think of was Rival..but yer....:machinegu
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Feb 8, 2012
  33. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    East and West
    I agree.
    What I meant to say was, that unfortunately my opinion won't do this poor guy any good in getting his winnings, right here and now.
    You betcha I'll keep airing my opinions tho ;)
     
  34. Feb 8, 2012
  35. LaHutti

    LaHutti Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man. webby PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    East and West
    The fact that a LOT of people don't stop at a red light, doesn't make it right.
    This is again, a stupid stupid rule, and I can not for the life of me see WHY they have it, other than being able to steal peoples winnings, OR that the software isn't random, and plays differently until a cashout has been fully executed, hence they don't want you to keep playing (and winning).
    I can see, that if you haven't requested a cashout, and still have the bonus to play with, that they would be right in saying that 10 or 20 or whatever times the bonus amount is max, but AFTER a withdrawal request, and AFTER the bonus money has been removed....just plain stupid, and borderline theft imho.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Feb 8, 2012
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is complete bullshit of the highest order. They allowed the reversal even though it was impossible for the player to win more. A reputable casino would either block reversals under such circumstances, or see the withdrawal as full satisfaction of the conditions placed on the bonus.

    This is nothing about style of play, bonus abuse, this is purely a technicality that is being used to confiscate the win, a technicality that doesn't even get mentioned as one in the terms and conditions. Surely under the same technicality "perpetual" means the player can never win again, as until the whole $6000 has been lost back to the casino, all further deposits are derived from this win, and thus subject to the perpetual cap.

    Virtual group use a similar trick, and where a player takes a bonus with a max cashout and loses it all, all their future deposits without a bonus are also treated as subject to the cap, and they claim this is because players will "deliberately lose with the bonus" and then deposit without one and make the games "compensate to RTP" by deliberately trying to win, and thus "abuse the bonus". Complete bullshit, but they said it, and it's in their smallprint (even if the explanation isn't).

    It is what happens when players take a chance with the shadier operators and have the nerve to win, they are treated like undesirables thereafter, and the primary objective of the casino is to claw back as much of the win as possible, and by any means they can get away with. The only people with the power to put a stop to this happily look the other way and pocket their fees.
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Feb 8, 2012
  39. dutchplayer

    dutchplayer Dormant account

    Occupation:
    I,am working
    Location:
    netherlands
    don,t play there!

    Hello Hazza, I had the same few years ago! make a withdraw of 2500 euro,and they removed it from my account! since then I closed my account in this bad criminal casino also City tower casino. I read that you deposit a lot there, If you read about this casino,in casinoforums,and other casino sites, the rating from this casino etc etc. you never make so many deposits there! this casino City club and City tower casino,must closed! also warnings about this casino,at casinomeister site!
     

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