Resolved Cherry Red confiscates funds...

pk716

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Location
Europe
Hey to all of you,

After reading the Casinomeister Forums I found out, that I was one of many players whose accounts were locked in the year of 2009.

I requested a cash-out from my account in January 2009, but was told by Cherry Red that there was an investigation going on an that I should be patient. I checked my Cherry Red account every week with my cash-out pending. After exchanging several mails with cherrys customer department who always told me to be patient I lost my patience and told them to pay me in ~July. After this email my account was suddenly locked and I received an email that I have transfered money from neteller and moneybookers to other 'fraudulent' players and that I have provided wrong personal information.

I double checked all my eWallets...I have NEVER made any transfers to any personal account.I offered Cherry Red to send them full transaction copies and any other documents they require from me, but they didnt want to.

After 9 months of none payment had passed and several emails had been exchanged I decided to complain at the RTG dispute service. After this complain Cherry Red decided to refund my deposits. RTG dispute told me "that Cherry Red is within their rights to investigate and unfortunately there is nothing we can do". Sure they are in their rights to investigate, but they are not in their rights to confiscate legitimate players' balances.

The last step I took was to contact the Rep here in the forums, but she couldn't help me as "all decisions are final"...

Personally I feel cheated. I wrote several emails, offered them to provide proof that I was a legitimate player, but they did not care. I find this situation to be very frustrating.

Is there anything I can do? What's your opinion to this? As the rep told me that nothing can be done, is it even worth to Pitch-A-Bitch ???
 

gloria460

Meister Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Florida
I would have PAB a long time ago. Read the rules and PAB immediately and MAXD will investigate if it's not too late. Hopefully things will be sorted out for the better or the worse depending on the investigation...goodluck
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
The Pitch-A-Bitch (aka 'PAB') process starts with the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. Please _read_ it instead of just browsing over it. There's a lot of important stuff in there and you risk damaging or killing your PAB if you don't know what you are doing and what is expected of you.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hey to all of you,

After reading the Casinomeister Forums I found out, that I was one of many players whose accounts were locked in the year of 2009.............

.............is it even worth to Pitch-A-Bitch ???


PAB

Two points. Cherry Red based their decision on the fact that you transferred money to other fraudulent players via Neteller & Moneybookers. You say you have not.

If you can provide evidence to show that you have NEVER made such transfers to fraudulent players, then Cherry Red have based their decision on the wrong information, which immediately makes it void, and reopens your dispute.

The RTG dispute process is simply a rubber stamp for the casino's decisions, as you have found out. The PAB process is NOT.

You should also wonder exactly how come Cherry Red got information that you made transfers to fraudulent players if this is not the case - this would be a breach of data protection laws, and you may be able to sue the relevant parties for damages.

This investigation was much publicised here, and did take a very long time to complete, and we were never told what was meant by "fraudulent players". Transferring money to other Neteller users is NOT AUTOMATICALLY FRAUD, since there are many LEGITIMATE reasons, such as paying for goods or services, usually private sales between individuals, or even internet auction sites. There would also need to be evidence that the transfers were effectively "money laundering", the passing of funds to facilitate further fraud, or to complicate the trail for any recovery action.

Once you submit a PAB, you must cease posting any further on this whilst Max investigates, and you should be prepared to PROVE that you didn't engage in money transfers, your word alone is not going to be enough to convince Cherry Red.
 

nitro

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - psychotic
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Location
DE
I would have PAB a long time ago.

Someone who has the intelligence to find out that there is such a thing as a RTG dispute service and so eager to get the money that he keeps on fighting one year after the incident wouldn't wait half a year for a cashout - unless he has something to hide. This was the reason for my deleted comment.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Someone who has the intelligence to find out that there is such a thing as a RTG dispute service and so eager to get the money that he keeps on fighting one year after the incident wouldn't wait half a year for a cashout - unless he has something to hide. This was the reason for my deleted comment.

Maybe so, but the RTG dispute service found for the casino, and he has only just registered here, and was so eager to find a way to reopen the issue that he merely skipped through the PAB guide:rolleyes:
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
Someone who has the intelligence to find out that there is such a thing as a RTG dispute service and so eager to get the money that he keeps on fighting one year after the incident wouldn't wait half a year for a cashout - unless he has something to hide. This was the reason for my deleted comment.

In the Western world, its innocent unless proven guilty. If you have a question, by all means ask, but dont jump to conclusions!

Also, you obviously havent dealt with the RTG dispute system. They dont resolve problems, they close cases, without clarfying anything at all, and also without checking to make sure the case should be closed. A simple example, if someone claims they have been waiting for payment for 3 months from XXX casino(generally one of the virtual group, and others too), they close the case saying the casino states "the payment has been sent and you recieved the payment by now", and you cant respond, once it has been closed.
 

nitro

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - psychotic
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Location
DE
In the Western world, its innocent unless proven guilty.

The casino believes that he is guilty otherwise his account wouldn't be closed.

Maybe so, but the RTG dispute service found for the casino...

Maybe so, but he waited yet another 2-3 months after the closure of the account before he went for it so he believes that he is guilty too.
 

bernynhel

Dormant account
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
Los Angeles
The casino believes that he is guilty otherwise his account wouldn't be closed.

Breakin' it down: He is guilty because his account is closed.

Maybe so, but he waited yet another 2-3 months after the closure of the account before he went for it so he believes that he is guilty too.

Breakin' it down: He is guilty and he knows he is guilty because he waited 2-3 months after his account was closed before deciding to pursue the matter, further.

You're a hard, hard dude, Nitro. I bet you could sniff your PC speakers and tell me what I had for supper.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Breakin' it down: He is guilty because his account is closed.



Breakin' it down: He is guilty and he knows he is guilty because he waited 2-3 months after his account was closed before deciding to pursue the matter, further.

You're a hard, hard dude, Nitro. I bet you could sniff your PC speakers and tell me what I had for supper.


Not quite, he waited an extra 3 months before he WENT PUBLIC.

He didn't even join here till recently, and first off tried to resolve this via the rep. When this didn't work, he erroneously assumed the PAB process would be yet another failure.

Before this, it took 6 MONTHS before Cherry Red even concluded all the investigations, and months 6 to 9 were probably spent sending emails to and fro, and then lodging a complaint with the RTG disputes system.

He was told WHY the casino thought he was guilty, he was transferring money to and fro between a group of fraudulent players. If this turns out to be wrong, Cherry Red have no case, and have to go right back to the start and come up with another excuse. If he DID make these transfers, and then lied to the forum in his initial post, and lies again about it in the PAB, Max will have him for breakfast, and he will "turn red" and have "banned user - fraudulent PAB" under his name.
 

nitro

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - psychotic
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Location
DE
Not quite, he waited an extra 3 months before he WENT PUBLIC.

He doesn't really want to go public with it because the first thing that he has done on this forum is contacting the casino representative - if he had nothing to hide it would have been an outcry open in the public after being treated like that.

You're a hard, hard dude, Nitro. I bet you could sniff your PC speakers and tell me what I had for supper.

Not quite that but i am 99% sure that he will not go for the PAB.
 

pk716

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Location
Europe
I am now aware that I may not post any further information, because I want to try to PAB.
Because I was attacked by some members I just want to defend myself by this short breakdown (which doesn't include any information that I had already made public in error anyways, I just added the dates when it happened and why it happened that way)


months 1-5 submitting faxback
contacting support now and then about my pending cashout
--> investigations were going on (I was sure that my account would not be fraudulent, so I didn't take any actions but just checked now and then)
got impatient and worried --> complaining that it took so long --> account locked
months 6-8 trying to discuss the matter with cherry red via email
told that "you entered misleading information and transferred moneybookers/neteller funds between players"
offered transaction copies, several methods of identity confirmation, but "decision was final"
this took so long because I was busy myself and couldn't always reply to cherry reds emails immediately
month 9 google search for sth like problems with casinos, found the casinomeister complaints site, decided to go for CentralDisputeSystem, because it is an official dispute resolution
month 10 deposit refunded after Central Dispute complaint
month 11 replied to CentralDispute and offered further documents but never received a reply
month 12 returning here, read about the rep, signed up here and tried the rep, who couldn't really seem to look into my case and help
(I emphasized again that I didn't transfer any funds and received the reply, that my account must then have been closed for sth. else and that decision was final)


But now I hope that PAB will help to resolve the issue. I will update once the PAB thing is completed
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I am now aware that I may not post any further information, because I want to try to PAB.
Because I was attacked by some members I just want to defend myself by this short breakdown (which doesn't include any information that I had already made public in error anyways, I just added the dates when it happened and why it happened that way)


months 1-5 submitting faxback
contacting support now and then about my pending cashout
--> investigations were going on (I was sure that my account would not be fraudulent, so I didn't take any actions but just checked now and then)
got impatient and worried --> complaining that it took so long --> account locked
months 6-8 trying to discuss the matter with cherry red via email
told that "you entered misleading information and transferred moneybookers/neteller funds between players"
offered transaction copies, several methods of identity confirmation, but "decision was final"
this took so long because I was busy myself and couldn't always reply to cherry reds emails immediately
month 9 google search for sth like problems with casinos, found the casinomeister complaints site, decided to go for CentralDisputeSystem, because it is an official dispute resolution
month 10 deposit refunded after Central Dispute complaint
month 11 replied to CentralDispute and offered further documents but never received a reply
month 12 returning here, read about the rep, signed up here and tried the rep, who couldn't really seem to look into my case and help
(I emphasized again that I didn't transfer any funds and received the reply, that my account must then have been closed for sth. else and that decision was final)


But now I hope that PAB will help to resolve the issue. I will update once the PAB thing is completed

Just be sure not to enter any misleading information on the PAB form;) This is slightly more info than you offered first time around, and is itself enough to be considered a fraudulent player with "something to hide", even without proof of transferring money to/from other fraudulent players.

The crux of this investigation was evidence that a small number of players were using stolen/borrowed/rented ID details, and posing as a far larger group of players. There was rumour that these IDs were stolen from unwitting holidaymakers who were having their passports copied by resort staff as "routine practice", and then being sold into the black market, and then used to hijack genuine IDs to play this group of casinos fraudulently.

Each suspected account was verified by checking out, even contacting, the actual persons whose details had been used to register the account, and further verifying that said persons had indeed been the ones to register and play.

It took some while to complete this, but if they were unable to contact you to verify your account, or the checks showed the registered details didn't match real details from other sources (electoral registers, credit agencies etc), they would have assumed it was fraudulent.

It would have been sufficient to post

I have submitted a PAB, let Max decide my fate here

or words to that effect. Taking the risk of adding to the discussion could risk the PAB process, and you could even contradict yourself, which would get you in even DEEPER "Do Do" than you would have been by NOT defending yourself until the PAB was completed.
 

nitro

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - psychotic
Joined
Aug 3, 2009
Location
DE
I am now aware that I may not post any further information, because I want to try to PAB.

It would have been sufficient to respond yesterday instead of having doubts if it is worth or not to go for the PAB.
 

pk716

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Location
Europe
I was phoned to confirm my details and paid within 1 week of the PAB.
I find this very confusing, as I have been fighting to get paid several weeks (decision final etc) and was suddenly paid without having to submit any further documents.

Resolved...
 
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