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Changes in Palace Group T & C - Not so sensational

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by LRDell, Jun 15, 2006.

    Jun 15, 2006
  1. LRDell

    LRDell Experienced Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Hello - It has been a while since I was on the forum, but some recent changes in bonus terms at Spin Palace and Ruby Fortune brought me back. I was expecting to see some other outraged discussion of this, but I didn't see any. I am a "VIP" with this group - yep, lost lots of money there. So they periodically send special VIP offers, often with rediculous headlines like "Sensation VIP offer!". But over the last several months, they have not only been switching to the new MG format of splitting real and bonus dollars (certainly not to our advatange), but have also DRAMATICALLY increased the required paythrough and eliminated or amost elimated most non-slot wagering.

    Here is the latest "sensational" offer:

    [I]The below offers are by invitation only and are exclusive
    to your recognised VIP casino account, tspr0*******6.

    - 25% VIP JUNE BONUS* - on ALL deposits!

    To view full details and to submit a Claim Form, visit:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Note. max. VIP June Bonus available is $1,000[/I]


    And here are the important terms:

    5. Upon qualification, the VIP June Bonus will be credited to your Bonus Account and is subject to thirty (30) times playthrough (wagering) before a withdrawal will be honored.

    6. NOTE: play at different games may contribute a different percentage of the playthrough requirement:
    100% - all Slots, American Roulette and all Parlor Games
    50% - all Table Pokers, Red Dog, all Roulettes (excluding American Roulette), Casino War and Sic Bo
    10% - all Video Pokers (except all Aces Poker), all Blackjacks (except Classic Blackjack), all Craps and
    all Baccarats
    2% - Classic Blackjack and All Aces Video Poker


    I was already not happy with the new dual account system set up by MG casinos, but these T&C are so stupid as to pretty much make them worthless. I have basically stopped taking their bonuses. And to top all this off, I have a few thousand in winnings that all of a sudden after two years they requested a bunch of documents (I have moved tens of thousands in and out of these casinos with no documents before). What I don't understand is why more people aren't commenting on these changes on the forum.
     
  2. Jun 15, 2006
  3. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    First of all, you don't need to spend thousands of dollars to get those offers. If you lose $20 they will start offering you 40 and 50% bonuses (but with a lower maximum).

    As to the new bonus system, are you referring to the EZBonus thing where you can cash out your winnings any time? Because I kind of like that deal.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 15, 2006
  5. LRDell

    LRDell Experienced Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Soflat

    My issue isn't with the 25% - I get varying % offers. (I was making a joke about the "VIP" status being because I have given them lots of money!) I am sure almost everybody is on their VIP list. My problem is the outrageous wagering requirments / limits.

    The new account system I was referring to sets up a separate account for bonus dollars and you only use those dollars when you have no real money in and they only accredit to your cash account after having met the wagering requirement. So you can't get the combined betting power of real and bonus money.
     
  6. Jun 16, 2006
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    EZBonus

    I am afraid you misunderstand this "bonus account", it is NOT the same as the old Casino Action setup. The bonus money forms part of the playable balance at all times. If, for example, you had 100% on $200, you could still bet the entire $400 on the first hand of BJ or whatever and continue with slots if you win.

    Compared to the level of tightening Palace Group had before, this is an improvement. The 30x is only calculated on the BONUS, so is much better than the earlier 12x D+B that was on the 25% bonuses. Wagering on Blackjack had already gone down to a 10% weighting from an earlier 20%, so again an improvement. Lastly, the ban on Jacks or Better in meeting WR has gone - now it's 10% weighted with other VP and Blackjack.
    As you play, the bonus is earned and becomes withdrawable in increments of $10. If you have an early big win, it is possible to break out of the bonus contract early and withdraw and have remaining bonus cancelled. The old terms required the whole WR to be ground out after an early big win.
    One further advantage is that these offers have become more predictable, they seem to cycle through 1)small/big deposit bonus; 2)big/small deposit bonus (depending on what last week was); 3) cashback choice on losses and then back to 1) again. The deposit and wager $50 random draw has gone.

    The actual amount on offer seems to depend on how much profit the casino has made in the past. Occasionally a much smaller amount will appear, although often at 100%. I don't know what criteria make one ineligible for the weekly promo. I still got them after 2 slot jackpots and a couple of Royal Flushes, admittedly, the casino has a fair bit of that back now because I took up later promotions.

    There are casinos where the change to EZBonus has meant a worse deal, and these are ones where the normal WR were low, or where a fair bit of free chips were handed out in prizes without deposits.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 16, 2006
  9. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    What I really miss is having no wager requirements on prize or loyalty point money. **heavy sigh** I also miss winning some really neat bling-bling every now and then. All that went out the window when they (Palace Group) consumed (absorbed, took over, merged -- call it whatever you want) the Piggs casinos group. Mummy's was my 'home' casino. It just ain't the same... :oops:
     
  10. Jun 16, 2006
  11. And

    And banned user: PAB involving player fraud PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Marketing consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    Apparently Spin Palace doesn't use the new system. You can't cash out your winnings with forfeiting your bonus if you haven't met the wagering.

    "Upon qualification, the 50% June Bonus will be credited to your Bonus account and is subject to thirty (30) times playthrough (wagering) before a withdrawal will be honored. "

    It could be they don't intend to enforce this rule as it could just be copied from an earlier version of terms.
    Anyways, I'd like a clarification from them.
     
  12. Jun 16, 2006
  13. LRDell

    LRDell Experienced Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    vinylweatherman: You are right in the playthough requirements - On a quick read I did not catch that it is only on the bonus amount. That is a little better. But I do still hate the limiting percentages!
     
  14. Jun 16, 2006
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Confusion

    The terms for the bonus account DO allow withdrawal at any time with forfeiture of the bonus. The "before any withdrawal will be honoured" was with the old terms.
    I was not aware that Loyalty points also went in as bonus. The only downside is the prize money, which used to have a token 3x WR or 5X WR.
     
  16. Jun 18, 2006
  17. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Hiall,

    Good feedback on this thread.

    Just to clarify, our Loyalty points do not have any wagering attached to them.
    I'll keep an eye on this one if there is any more uncertainty.
    Thanks to all the posters for clarifying things :)

    The Palace Group
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 18, 2006
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Loyalty

    A smack in the eye for Casino Rewards then! Their "loyalty" points have to be wagered 30x!

    I also received a newsletter prize at Ruby Fortune, and I noticed this was credited as withdrawable cash rather than a wagerable amount in the bonus partition at the bottom of the balance - this would seem to be an improvement on having to wager it 3x. This could be a system error, so I would urge Palace Group to check this out with regard to the terms for prize money.
    Some "prize" money still comes as bonus though, such as the current World Cup $10 and the cashback on the insurance cashback promotions.

    My own offer was for a bonus of 350 (25% on up to 1400). Palace Group DO weight their offers for currency, unlike many other casinos.
    I am convinced that there are a small number of offers that are on the list, and each week sees a VIP version and a "valued player" version which differ only in the amount offered. Currently, these offers seem unusually predictable, and it might be worth throwing in a few unexpected ones now and again to keep us VIP's on our toes:D
     
  20. Jun 18, 2006
  21. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Hmm. I Guess I'm not valued any longer cause I didn't get an offer this week.
     
  22. Jun 18, 2006
  23. two_card

    two_card Dormant account

    I play only VP and have stopped playing at MG.
    Playthroigh reqs are terrible.
     
  24. Jun 18, 2006
  25. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    I've only been playing vp lately too. The EZBonus system makes even some of the small bonuses worthwhile. If I hit, I can cash out. If not then at least I had the extra free hands from the bonus.
     
  26. Jun 19, 2006
  27. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Hi all,

    I would like to make sure everyone is 100% clear on the bonus systems.
    Loyalty points redeemed by players do not have any wagering attached.
    The bonus system now used for the majority of our promotions works as follows:

    Bonus money is placed into your bonus account. You then have a cash and bonus balance (this is viewable my hold you mouse over your balance and/or going to the cashin pages).
    Once you start to hit wagering your bonus balance moves to your cash balance.

    Should you cashin at anytime before you have met wagering, you will be permitted to cashin your cash balance but will forfeit/lose your bonus balance.

    The system doesn't penalize players who win before meeting wagering requirements!

    For those of you who posted that you missed promotions, please PM me and I will have a look into this.

    Thanks,

    The Palace Group
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Jun 22, 2006
  29. LRDell

    LRDell Experienced Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    I would like the Casino Rep to explain what they mean by the last part of #8. It sound like only wagers made with real money (not bonus money) 'achieve' the playthrough requirements. I would hope this is bad wording and not an actual requirement that you also have to wager the deposit(s) 30x as well as the bonus. Maybe this is real money as opposed to play money - I have never done play money, so I am not so familiar with the term 'real money'

    For me it won't matter very much. I have all but written these guys off after some major problems with recent withdrawals, but these same terms might start showing up other places.

    From their Terms and Conditions:

    5. Upon qualification, the '35% Cashback Bonus' will be credited to your Bonus Account and is subject to thirty (30) times playthrough (wagering) before it may be withdrawn.

    6. NOTE: play at different games may contribute a different percentage of the playthrough requirement:
    100% - all Slots, American Roulette and all Parlor Games
    50% - all Table Pokers, Red Dog, all Roulettes (excluding American Roulette), Casino War and Sic Bo
    10% - all Video Pokers (except all Aces Poker), all Blackjacks (except Classic Blackjack), all Craps and
    all Baccarats
    2% - Classic Blackjack and All Aces Video Poker

    7. The '35% Cashback Bonus' will not exceed $500 or 500 or 500 and the Claim Form must be submitted before 6 p.m. ET. (10 p.m. GMT.) on Tuesday, June 27th, 2006.

    8. As the required playthrough requirements are met, funds are automatically transferred from the Bonus Account to the Cash Account - in increments of $10 or 10 or 10. Playthrough requirements are achieved when any real money wager is made.

    9. Real money wagers are deducted from the Cash Account. If there is no cash available, the wager is deducted from the Bonus Account. Funds in the Bonus Account are only played if there are insufficient credits in the cash balance.

    10. This offer may not be used in conjunction with any other current bonus offers and, when a withdrawal is made, the Bonus Account balance is reset to ZERO. This means that you can choose to withdraw money deposited, but will lose any bonus money remaining in the Bonus Account.
     
  30. Jun 22, 2006
  31. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Hi LRDell,

    Firstly please PM me your account number and I'll look into your account problems.

    In regards to term 8:
    You start wagering with the money in your cash account first. Should there be no money left in your cash account but you do have a balance in your bonus account, you can continue to wager with the money in your bonus account.

    Lets say you need to wager $300 to release $10 and you have a balance of $50 in your bonus account and $0 in your cash account, you hit the $300 wager your balance will then be $10 in cash account and $40 in bonus account.

    I hope this clarifies things.

    Kind regards,

    The Palace Group
     
    1 person likes this.

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