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Celtic Casino Takes my 1500 euros for a gift

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Royce, Nov 9, 2012.

    Nov 9, 2012
  1. Royce

    Royce Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    France
    Dear Players,

    I would like to inform you about a very serious problem I had with celtic casino. Although I am not a regular gambler, less online (my second time ever online), I would do my best to protect anyone from playing at that casino. Not only they will steal your money, but they will also treat you as a dumb person, make fun of you, telling you they will steal you and have the full right to do it. Here's what happened after I opened an account nearly a month ago.
    I deposit 20 euros by paysafecard twice or three times, I loose them each time. I deposit 40 euros by moneybookers, then loose. I deposit 100 by moneybookers then win 1500. I never accepted bonus. I only wanted to gamble with my own money. One week after a payout request, A person called Stuart Seguin sends e-mail saying that they discovered in playing behavior a so called "martingale" method, which is contrary to their terms and conditions. Although sometimes I did that, my winnings were not due to that. They were mainly due to big bets on baccarat, especially my first bet of 100 euros. Now they tell me if you had lost you would have lost. But you won, so we will give you 100 euros deposit, and refund the previous 40 euros (although completely lost). Do you believe that? THAT'S STEALING.

    I have posted as well a complaint on askgamblers since I have verified this casino it was one of the casinos that never showed fraudulent behavior... Well here's a terrible one.

    They also closed permanently my account. If I had lost, with the same bets I made, do you think they would have done that? NO. THE ONLY REASON THEY DID THAT IS IS THAT I HAD THE CHANCE TO WIN.

    I of course have all proofs of pending 1500 euros payout request confirmed by e-mail, and then an e-mail from me asking to block my account to protect them.

    I will post here the e-mail sent to me by the "fraud" manager. I also forwarded this e-mail to gambling grumble. They found it was a lot fun since as they said to me casinos love players who use martingale since it is these players who loose fortunes at casinos (although not my method because most of the time I was tripling the bets each time so without tremendous chance I would have lost everything). The casino treating me as a dumb, making fun of me, and stealing me. This is so disgusting. I will never forget that. So here's the e-mail:

    "My name is Stuart Seguin and I’m the Fraud Manager at Celtic Casino.



    After reviewing your account in detail we have confirmed violation of our Terms & Conditions within your betting behavior. As it is clearly stated in our Terms & Conditions which you agreed to when creating your account, Celtic Casino is intended for recreational players only and any players found to be abusing any rule or regulation, professional bettors, syndicates, or any person having systematic betting strategies will be subject to having their account suspended, their earnings removed and their original deposit refunded.



    Unfortunately, we have found systematic behavior within your game play (Martingale strategy) and your account has been permanently closed, your winnings voided and your initial deposits refunded back to the same Moneybookers account you used to deposit for a total of €140."

    First of all, the word martingale doesn't even exist in their terms and conditions. Second, I am a recreational player. That's why they waited so long for me to come back give all my winnings thing I'd never do. Third, and most importantly, he gave me 140 euros. Where does this sum of money come from? it's the deposits I made by money bookers!!! yes, all deposits I made by moneybookers were refunded (although the previous 40 euros deposit was lost!!!! but given back!!!), but not the ones I made by paysafecard. That shows to which point they are not acting according to any terms and conditions. They just do not want to pay the money they ow me.

    Again, I have all proofs. This casino should make players run away, in case no solution is found to this problem.

    Best Regards
     
  2. Nov 9, 2012
  3. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    They have it covered in their T&C:s:

    7.5. Celtic Casino is intended for recreational players only and any players found to be abusing any rule or regulation, professional bettors, syndicates, or any person having systematic betting strategies will be subject to having their account suspended, their earnings removed and their deposit refunded.
     
  4. Nov 9, 2012
  5. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    It is covered in the T&Cs but it's an FU clause really.

    Martingale does not change the payout of a roulette wheel, it simply increases the variance.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Nov 9, 2012
  7. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Agree!
     
  8. Nov 9, 2012
  9. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    That's Rogue behaviour quite honestly. Any honest and reputable Casino would not steal your winnings based on a betting strategy. The Martingale system is not a guaranteed means of profit and its being used as a reason for the Casino to screw you over as far as I can see...

    If this is all and really the 'Story', I suggest you consider a PAB .... You can start here:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/faq.php?faq=cmfaq_pab

    Nate
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Nov 9, 2012
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I agree with this - please Pitch-A-Bitch ASAP.
    I list Celtic Casino on my website - but if they are seriously going to enforce this ridiculous rule based on martingale, they will be taking a quick short walk from my Recommended page to my Blacklist page... :mad:

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  12. Nov 9, 2012
  13. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    What strikes me is that this, imo rogue, term applies also when you are NOT taking any bonus. I feel that I should almost hire a lawyer to scrutinize the T&Cs before playing at a new casino. I understand that the OP deposited and played in good faith, no bots involved. There is no succesful strategy for roulette, none whatsoever, complete bogus.
     
  14. Nov 9, 2012
  15. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    what you mean mouche the damn guy won thats the problem ):D
     
  16. Nov 9, 2012
  17. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Yep mr. Jones, in my experience you can lose your money very quickly at the roulette table, regardless of any "system". The OP was lucky enough to win after his third deposit and should be paid, period. Would the casino have refunded his deposits (based on this bogus rule) if he had not won anything? Don't think so.
     
  18. Nov 10, 2012
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Seems the term was always there.

    Did you not realize before you promoted them?
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 10, 2012
  21. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    I don't really understand your strategy. You deposit 20 a few times and lose, then 40 and lose that so you deposit 100 and bet it all on one baccarat hand?

    Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with doing that but you must have been pretty confident about that 5th deposit or really frustrated after the first 4. lol
     
  22. Nov 10, 2012
  23. Royce

    Royce Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    France
    ALL, yes, ALL of the answers to this post are plenty of good sense. Nothing to add. Unless you're insane, you don't accept someone to steal you, in addition tell you his name, and after all treat you as a dumbass and tell you that in fact he has the RIGHT to do that.

    Yes, what I told above is 100% true. Anyone who gives me his e-mail will get all of the e-mails I recorded that proofs all this. Not a single detail was changed. If not let the "fraud" manager come and tell me I am lying.

    I appreciate sir you agree it's a FU terms and conditions, at least as the "fraud" manager had interpretated that. But I would like to ask: have you checked my hand history to say that? Is the casino communicating private informations about me with you?

    Anyway, let me go further more on this. So what you're saying is that the casino was so intelligent to put this sentence in the middle of a one hundred page terms and conditions and with this magic sentence, he can steal as much money as he wants. But what's systematic betting behiavior? It's like betting always the same? All players like to bet this and that depending on their mood. The casino won't tell you that little after my deposit, when my balance was about 160 euros, I just decided to bet 100 euros at once on baccarat. Is that systematic betting behavior. I won't discuss what's systematic or what's not, the thing is why the ffff did I take that risk with the money I earn by working hard? Those 1500 euros are owed. (so still 1360 euros left)

    Second: Why did they refund to me the previous deposit of 40 euros with the last one of one hundred? I have lost these 40 euros so why give them to me?!! Is that in their terms and conditions? Refunding the 2 last deposits if the player wins big? And not refunding all I had lost before? They are not acting to any terms and conditons, it's just like when you take a big gift for yourself such as 1500 euros you won't ask about 40 euros. They have just decided to take this as a gift for themselves.

    Thrid: Well, you give me this terms and conditions, take this:
    28. MODIFICATION AND AMENDMENTS
    Celtic Casino reserves the right to change these Terms and Conditions at any time. Such changes shall have effect immediately upon publication on this site and you agree to be bound by them and to regularly review these terms for the purposes of monitoring such changes. If any modification is unacceptable to you, your only recourse is to terminate these Conditions. Your continued use of the services following notification will be deemed binding acceptance of the modification. It is your sole responsibility to review these Conditions and any amendments each time you play. These Conditions and the documents referred to herein represent the complete and final Conditions agreed between you and Celtic Casino in relation to these Terms and Conditions and supersede any and all prior agreements between you and Celtic Casino.

    In fact, it is your sole responsiblity to notice the changes. They are not interested in telling you something has changed, since you could stop playing if you knew what has changed. It means simply they tell players we ow you nothing whether you win or loose it's the same, you're all dumbass gamblers money machines for our casino, our magic terms and conditions can do it all.
     
  24. Nov 10, 2012
  25. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    If you think you haven't breached any terms regarding betting strategy, do a PAB.....it'll determine whether you have or not, if the casino's willing (and you) to share your hand history
     
  26. Nov 10, 2012
  27. Royce

    Royce Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    France
    Lol, there is no strategy. Although I don't understand why am I asked these questions, but I will answer them. No I made several deposits of 20 but in about like 2 weeks or more. I was not frustrated of loosing since I considered it was play time. I was neither confident about the fith deposit!! I just decided to gamble that's all. Loosing 40 I decided to gamble with 100 to try my chance for second time. There is no strategy. I can loose the 100 as I lost the 40. The big bet of 100 euros was made after several hands when by balance was up to 160. I still remebmer I saw 0-0-1 player and then 0-0 then 0 came out for the banker. Wow that was a pretty good moment:)
     
  28. Nov 10, 2012
  29. Royce

    Royce Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    France
    Please understand in my previous message I didn't want to justify myself and be sorry about any bet i made and won. I told some of my hand history to show that really even with the rogue rules the fraud manager is trying to impose, I may even come out winner out of this. Showing my hand history to the whole world doesn't make any difference for me. If they made this joke about my hand history, I won't be surprised to get other jokes. All winnings were voided, whether I won "by martingale" or not (as I could have lost). There are no terms and conditions involved here with their actions. They just don't want to pay what they ow. Whatever were the terms and conditions, there could be no stealing. That's so stupid. Unless you're making fun of the world.

    They also state in their terms and conditions that winnings due to card counting on blackjack will be voided (so not the rest). So all winnings whatsoever should be voided if some winnings were won on martingale, and winnings only due to card counting will be voided if card counting was found? I honestly find myself stupid discussing such questions. In addition, you cannot compare martingale and card counting. Card counting is unfair, though as martingale is worldwide known to be a fair system. And do not forget that the word martingale doesn't even appear in their terms and conditions.

    Here is it:
    7.3 If card counting is determined to have occurred, players may be eligible to have their original deposits returned only, but will not receive any funds won during this activity. What about the rest of the activity?

    This is a funny story. I have contacted as well gambling grumble who found this story particularily interesting since they said to me casinos love players with martingale strategy because it is those players in particular who loose fortunes in casinos.

    You do not negotiate your money with someone. Cancelling money does not exist. Stealing exists. Either you steal, or give someone his money.
     
  30. Nov 10, 2012
  31. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    ok, again...why not file a PAB?
     
  32. Nov 10, 2012
  33. Royce

    Royce Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    France
    Ah, I see what's PAB is, I thought here we post the complaint and that's it. Thanks, I'll post a PAB.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Nov 10, 2012
  35. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    If it HAS always been there, then I guess I must have missed it :oops:
    Sometimes wading through all the T&Cs does tend to make the eyes cross and the brain start to melt!
    Especially if this is true:
    I'll look into this...

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Nov 10, 2012
  37. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Martingale is a very risky strategy for the player unless he has infinite wealth and there's no limit on the game/table. Banning the player is a dumb business decision, confiscating his winnings is rogue regardless of what the TC's say.

    TC's aren't the be-all end-all of gaming ethics. Not paying your winnings because of bogus terms is no better in my book than not paying your winnings because they don't feel like it.
     
  38. Nov 10, 2012
  39. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Hmmm... Way Back Machine only has ONE snap-shot of the Celtic T&Cs - and that's from July 26th, 2010 = 7 months before I added them to my site.
    In that version this rule is definitely NOT there. (Section 7 only has 2 points).
    So it's impossible for me to know when rule 7.5 was added.

    KK
     

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