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Misc Correction Casumo Casino, Spirit of the Bonus Term

Discussion in 'Accredited Casinos Updates' started by petro, Oct 17, 2016.

    Oct 17, 2016
  1. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    I've already alerted the rep.

    Being highly praised, I checked out Casumo Casino recently and noticed a term in their T&C which is prohibited for accredited casinos.

    1.14. We award bonuses and entry to selected promotions in good faith to players who use our services for entertainment purposes and as a token of appreciation for your loyal play. Free bets, bonuses and entry to promotions will be revoked, denied or withdrawn from players who abuse the spirit of our offers. Casumo reserves the right to cancel a bonus offer at any time in case of any suspected abuse of the offer and to terminate the offender’s account with immediate effect. At our sole discretion, we may not issue refunds of any deposits, balances or winnings generated on the account should abuse be suspected. The term “Abuse” shall include, the opening of multiple accounts to claim multiple bonuses.
    xxxwww.casumo.com/en-gb/

    It's a stereotypical example of a "spirit of the bonus" term. And if my memory serves, that term was specifically prohibited a few years ago here on CM.
    Basically, it means that the casino can, for any reason; steal your money!

    That term is prohibited under the operational standards for accredited casinos:
    - Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.
    - Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player.
    http://www.casinomeister.com/advertising.php

    I wont be depositing at a casino with that rogue term and I'm very surprised that they became accredited.
     
  2. Oct 17, 2016
  3. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Good detective work Petro. :thumbsup:

    What gets my blood boiling as well is this goody-two-shoes part: "players who use our services for entertainment purposes" . :mad:

    Yeah right, all gamblers are just recreational players and do so for their entertainment only. Why then for heavens sake do we have then RG regulations, gambling addiction help organizations, etc etc. How this industry is painting this "entertainment image" really p***es me off, because everybody knows it couldn't be further from the truth. :rolleyes: :mad:
     
  4. Oct 17, 2016
  5. TheyCallMeGorba

    TheyCallMeGorba Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    I work in retail
    Location:
    Iisalmi - Finland
    I believe that emphasizing entertainment is just plain PR. Casino industry tends to sweep all that money nonsense under the rug and wants people to think that hey this is fun no matter the outcome. Casinos rather want a large player base who play a little than few tens of heavy-hitting players and I believe that this is achieved by rubbing the fun in your face and occasionally fanfaring that Mega Fortune jackpot hit to attract new players.

    But seriously, who here can't say that sometimes you can have a really good time even though you don't win anything in the end. Just hit a casino with few of your friends and a good time is guaranteed :) I myself can recall few times I thought I had a really good time playing even though there were nothing to cash out. Some good hits here and there, ups and downs (not just the usual downs) and a long playtime is sometimes enough for me.

    Of course experienced players always expect a return but these players also have easier time accepting that inevitable defeat :p
     
  6. Oct 17, 2016
  7. CasumoAffiliates

    CasumoAffiliates Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Mananger
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi to all,

    Regarding our Terms and Conditions, please note that they are vetted by and notified to our regulators where we are respectively licensed. However, I have passed along your feedback internally.
     
  8. Oct 17, 2016
  9. spoton

    spoton Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Right behind you
    Even though it is a sucky term, I guess it is hard to abuse the terrible bonus offers at Casumo. Deposit 100, get 15 worth of spins with WR lol.
     
  10. Oct 17, 2016
  11. randomiam

    randomiam Meister Member

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    australia
    i cut down my sdeposits there already

    Player loyalty to low 45 deposits 1 tiny cashout asked for a free chip a few times just get refused there loss really instead of them getting 100 a week min share of my betting bundle it goes elsewhere now.
     
  12. Oct 17, 2016
  13. spoton

    spoton Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Right behind you
    They didn't even offer you a 20% match bonus with 25x(deposit + bonus) so they could tie in your money?
     
  14. Oct 17, 2016
  15. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    uk
    I think the OP is talking about the rules regarding accreditation here at Casinomeister, not what any licensing might require.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 17, 2016
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is certainly close to the line, but may be badly worded as it seems to be saying that only FUTURE offers will be revoked, rather than offers that have already been offered and claimed by a player, and then revoked only when they win, resulting in retrospective revocation (confiscation) of winnings, loyalty points, prizes, etc.

    Accreditation standards do not prevent casinos from deciding not to offer a player bonuses IN FUTURE, provided they honour what has already been granted to a player, and any winnings resulting from it.

    The real problem is using the words "spirit of our offers". After all, what is "spirit of the offer" if not to entice a player to deposit through making them believe they can "beat the promo" and have a better chance of winning.

    For the casino, the "spirit of the offer" is for it to bring them more in the way of deposits, that will all be played out according to the house edge and result in an improvement in revenue and profit. For the player, the "spirit of the offer" is a bigger bankroll for a lesser deposit, with the hope that this will allow more chances of hitting a "big win" that can go on to produce a decent withdrawal and move the house edge in the players' favour.
     
  18. Oct 17, 2016
  19. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    That's definitely not the case, if you read here:
    "Casumo reserves the right to cancel a bonus offer at any time..." That would include when you are just about to cash out.
    " At our sole discretion, we may not issue refunds of any deposits, balances or winnings generated on the account..."

    Undoubtedly, it's a spirit of the bonus term.
     
  20. Oct 17, 2016
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Good point if they use this part of the term to confiscate winnings for "spirit of the bonus" issues rather than something concrete like FRAUD, which would be "opening multiple accounts". So many casino operators can't tell the difference between fraud, breach of contract, and "spirit of the bonus". If players are opening multiple accounts using false ID documents, it's FRAUD, it's not "bonus abuse" nor "breach of contract", but a criminal matter that should be referred to the police. Conversely, as is often claimed by casino operators, "breach of contract" is NOT fraud, it is a civil matter. Spirit of the bonus has no legal standing, and it would be unwise to try defending a "spirit of the bonus" winnings confiscation in the small claims or civil courts.
     
  22. Oct 18, 2016
  23. floopyzicer

    floopyzicer Newbie member

    Occupation:
    store owner and computer service
    Location:
    mk
    There's no bonuses in casumo so that line is just copy paste from somewhere ;)
     
  24. Oct 18, 2016
  25. interlog

    interlog Senior Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    London
    As far as I know they do give out deposit bonuses?
     
  26. Oct 18, 2016
  27. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    yes they do, or at least used to when I was regular there, stopped depositing as the bonus offers deteriorated.

    Initially you'd get valuables such as 1.4 (40%) 1.5 (50%) and 1.8 (80%)

    Now its seems its just 10-20% 'rewarded' in the form of FS on crappy 10p slots and don't get me started on those 'level up' rewards :rolleyes:

    A once great casino which is now only mediocre IMO, sorry Casumo :(
     
  28. Oct 18, 2016
  29. Tropicana50

    Tropicana50 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    England
    Unfortunately I tend to agree with what some of the other posters have put here. There was a time when Casumo was leading the online Casino pack but the past 6 months things have been pretty non-existant in the bonus department. I spent a week collecting "blue crystals" for an "amazing valuable". I got 3 super spins on Twin Spin and won a whopping 0.

    I put my account on a lengthy break over there and went back to my usual rabbit hole after that episode.

    Is it so hard to ask for this setup:

    1 monthly 100% deposit bonus. Maximum £250. 25x bonus wager. As long as you don't touch your bonus cash then you can still withdraw any time.
    1 weekly 50% deposit bonus. Maximum £250. 25x bonus wager. As long as you don't touch your bonus cash then you can still withdraw any time.

    Forget all of the 5 free spins on slot X when you level up into a new magic jelly galaxy. I don't want to win a trip to China, a new motorbike or my bills paid for the rest of the year. I don't want to have to compete in a giant ladder to get a freebie when players can accumulate millions of points. I don't want to have to read 50 shades of terms and conditions just to find out some cleverly disguised piece of text is going to ruin my Tuesday cash out.

    I just want to enjoy some slots with simple, straight forward bonuses that give me a chance to make a cash out.

    - T
     
  30. Mar 12, 2017
  31. nickg

    nickg I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Location:
    London
    Getting back to "Casumo Casino, Spirit of the Bonus Term" + easing off on bonusing

    I operate a Bitcoin casino and I get very involved with terms and conditions simply because they have to be precise, in order for my casino to avoid being abused.

    Abuse terms and conditions
    I can understand why Casumo have such a vague condition. It saves a huge amount of legal 'wordage'. If they didn't have this term and decided to get really specific in their bonus terms and conditions about all the different scenarios they could withhold funds, all it would do is act as a framework for abusers to work out what loopholes there were and in turn they would have infestation on their hands. On the other side of the coin, huge and complicated terms and conditions would put 'dumb end-users' off.

    There is another dimension to this, which is legal jurisdiction. It's virtually impossible for a casino operator to prosecute a customer committing fraud/bonus abuse. Casinos like this are truly international and to even contemplate cross border legal actions against customers would just be nonsense.

    Instead, they've obviously gone for a placeholder term which they use at their discretion. The reason these kind of vague terms and conditions don't get out of control is because of places like casinomeister. In fact, on the whole for serious gamblers, social proof and reputation is the 'governing law' amongst casinos who care about their long-term future.

    I haven't read or heard about Casumo being ultra-aggressive with bonus abuse, so I assume they've been very careful in using this vague condition.

    Bonuses getting smaller at Casumo
    Ironically enough I've been writing an article for EGR Digital today all about bonuses and whether they are worth it. I was talking with my operations director about bonusing in general and our consensus is that being too generous with bonuses
    - costs a lot of money,
    - acts as a magnet for abusers
    - attracts the wrong kind of player

    For every operator, they've got to make a choice about how they spend their marketing money. I think if Casumo can gradually pull back on bonusing, whilst keeping the quality of customer services and site experience up, they should probably shake off the bonus users, obviously reduce the amount of bonus abuse (because there is no economic incentive to abuse) and be able to put more money into more mainstream marketing.

    My own case, we've started cutting back on bonuses as well, by sorting out one problem people have with bonuses, which is choice. Some people like lots of free spins and others prefer big match bonuses and then is everything in between. We've created a user interface that makes it really easy to pick from one of 20 different bonuses. The benefit to us is that we've simplified welcome bonusing and reload bonusing for the customer and also reduced the overhead bonus value and and thus cost to the business... But, the customer gets something in return which is simpler bonusing.

    In conclusion
    I think it's smart to cut back on bonuses if they can offer more value elsewhere. Feedback had from my team about their loyalty program has been mixed. They've definitely gamified the loyalty program beautifully, but the awards are a bit too meagre.

    Thankfully because of communities like yours, they can't get too aggressive with their 'loose' terms and conditions, so thanks for being the enforcers.
     

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