Cassava locked my account after ungrounded accusation of bonus abuse

wailoktam

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
May 19, 2009
Location
Tokyo
I opened an account with Supro Casino last month and I ended up with a 12 pounds win (188/200 pounds of the bonus lost). I only played 1 cent Video poker and I never made any suspicious doubling of large winning. There is nothing in my gameplay that would associate me with the label "bonus abuser". After I made an attempt withdrew, I received a mail from Cassava blaming me as a bonus abuser. All my accounts with all casinos whose billing are handled by cassava are locked. Worse than that, Supro charged my UK credit card in USD and costed me an extra 17 pounds for a 200 pounds deposit.

After some struggle with the transaction department, Cassava claimed that they would return the 17 pounds to my Supro account but my accounts were never unlocked after several weeks.

I have even confirmed with LuckyAce Casino that opening accounts with more than 1 cassava-powered casinos are allowed. LuckyAce told me that they are independent. So there is absolutely nothing they can base their accusation of me as a bonus abuser in any possible way.

What can I do to escalate my complaint? Cassava is supposed to be regulated by some authorities, right?
 

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
Some skins of cassave are protected by ecogra, where you could complain, but if the skin is not listed as an ecogra skins at ecogra website then your propably out of luck.
The best chance would be to try to communicate with the casino, because they do have some power against these rulings, or complain with ecogra , if the site is listed there.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
Some skins of cassave are protected by ecogra, where you could complain, but if the skin is not listed as an ecogra skins at ecogra website then your propably out of luck.
The best chance would be to try to communicate with the casino, because they do have some power against these rulings, or complain with ecogra , if the site is listed there.
Are you able to post the communication between you and Supro CS?

And also detail your exact wagering?

Not that it should matter - the whole "we decide if you are a bonus abuser" clause is fine, but ONLY as it relates to FUTURE bonuses. If a player fulfills the bonus wagering T&C, they have to pay you - it shouldn't matter if you didn't go 1c over the wagering requirement - the T&C are the T&C and if you haven't breached any, they must pay (it *should* be this simple - I can tell you of course, in reality...it's not).
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
I opened an account with Supro Casino last month and I ended up with a 12 pounds win (188/200 pounds of the bonus lost). I only played 1 cent Video poker and I never made any suspicious doubling of large winning. There is nothing in my gameplay that would associate me with the label "bonus abuser". After I made an attempt withdrew, I received a mail from Cassava blaming me as a bonus abuser. All my accounts with all casinos whose billing are handled by cassava are locked. Worse than that, Supro charged my UK credit card in USD and costed me an extra 17 pounds for a 200 pounds deposit.
Heads they win, tails you lose. 'Suspicious doubling' (whatever that is) they can decide is abusive. Equally small bets can be construed that way - if you play too long, they can accuse you of using a bot, which is against the their terms.

Anyway, they don't deal with third parties, so I think you are out of luck on this.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I opened an account with Supro Casino last month and I ended up with a 12 pounds win (188/200 pounds of the bonus lost). I only played 1 cent Video poker and I never made any suspicious doubling of large winning. There is nothing in my gameplay that would associate me with the label "bonus abuser". After I made an attempt withdrew, I received a mail from Cassava blaming me as a bonus abuser. All my accounts with all casinos whose billing are handled by cassava are locked. Worse than that, Supro charged my UK credit card in USD and costed me an extra 17 pounds for a 200 pounds deposit.

After some struggle with the transaction department, Cassava claimed that they would return the 17 pounds to my Supro account but my accounts were never unlocked after several weeks.

I have even confirmed with LuckyAce Casino that opening accounts with more than 1 cassava-powered casinos are allowed. LuckyAce told me that they are independent. So there is absolutely nothing they can base their accusation of me as a bonus abuser in any possible way.

What can I do to escalate my complaint? Cassava is supposed to be regulated by some authorities, right?
Give them plenty of time, BUT, if they refuse to provide you with the EXACT nature of your supposed breach of terms and conditions, OR remedy the mis-charging of your card, remind them of the UK's section 75 of the consumer credit act - the BANK will be a "third party" they CANNOT ignore.

Do NOT, however, use a threatening tone and do NOT mention any SPECIFIC course you might take, such as using the word "chargeback". You CAN, however, mention that you can make an "adverse merchant report" to the body that oversees the credit card transactions, which is probably VISA UK in your case, since UK Mastercards tend not to like gambling transactions.

I had a similar issue long ago with Winward, (who were not yet rogue at the time), and they wanted ALL digits of my card number AND the 3 digit code on the back, which was AGAINST security advice, and indeed VISA advice. I phoned VISA, and was told that it was OK to comply since I was effectively being held to ransom, and it would not affect me if my card details were later used fraudulently. I was asked repeatedly if I wanted to lodge an "adverse merchant report" with VISA for their behaviour. I did NOT, of course, want to do anything that would result in a "chargeback" action, but this kind of report does not, it is more to do, it seems, with bad behaviour on the part of merchants, including lack of consideration for card holder's security.

Winward then accepted my card with the security code blanked out, and paid up in full.

Going ahead, or even merely threatening a changeback, damages your ability to play at OTHER casinos, and is something to be avoided unless the "sin" by the merchant is VERY SIGNIFICANT, and a CLEAR violation of the rules, such as taking money without the transaction having been authorised.

You have already destroyed your ability to play at other Cassava casinos, since they will now have passed this negative data to all of them, who will either lock your accounts, or at the very least not offer any bonuses.

By debiting your card in a curreny OTHER than the one you authorised, they have ALREADY breached the rules, since they MUST present to you the TRUE nature of the transaction for you to authorise. This is something Click2Pay pullled on me, and at first they told me it was my bank that did it, but when I told them I would therefore contact my BANK with an objection to having transactions authorised in POUNDS charged as US Dollars, Click2Pay refunded the difference without further argument, and tried to explain why they were right to do it this way (they didn't make it all that convincing, so that was the end of Click2Pay for me).

Had I continued to play at Littlewoods after they moved from Crypto to Cassava, I may well have stumbled upon these problems myself.

It might be worth looking into a complaint to eCogra first, it should be relatively quick, and the casino will have to come up with something more concrete than "suspicious doubling" to win their case.

You have only "won" 12 though, so it is not a great loss to learn how badly Cassava treat you - better now, than after you win 1200 for example.
If you just get the currency fees back, you will have recovered more than the 12, and shown the rest of us that Cassava ALSO play this profitable "currency game" that Click2Pay use to inflate profits, and make a "free" transfer anything but.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
wailoktam said:
LuckyAce told me that they are independent.
If they told you luckyace was independent they lied to you. They are as independent as Supro or 888, which is to say they they are all part of the same group ran by the same people.

There are very good reasons why so many webmasters have blacklisted or put out warnings about these guys at cassava/888.com/Supro/luckyace/777.com/Casino on Net/Pacific Poker and all the other sites put out by cassava.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
If they told you luckyace was independent they lied to you.
See the listing for Cassava on our "No Can Do" List. We list LuckyAce as one of their properties, mainly because the inside people that handled Lucky Ace issues (back in the day) were 888 Plc/Cassava Enterprises people.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
See the listing for Cassava on our "No Can Do" List. We list LuckyAce as one of their properties, mainly because the inside people that handled Lucky Ace issues (back in the day) were 888 Plc/Cassava Enterprises people.
LuckyAce charged and credited my neteller as "Cassava Enterprises Ltd"

What I'm more annoyed about is that they also short-changed me $110 by charging my US$ neteller in pounds. This despite the fact that I complained before cashing out and they specifically told me they'd changed my account to pay in dollars.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
LuckyAce charged and credited my neteller as "Cassava Enterprises Ltd"

What I'm more annoyed about is that they also short-changed me $110 by charging my US$ neteller in pounds. This despite the fact that I complained before cashing out and they specifically told me they'd changed my account to pay in dollars.
This really takes the piss.

Worse than that, Supro charged my UK credit card in USD
They are playing the "currency game". Don't forget, THEY also apply a mark up, since they do NOT use "tourist/interbank" rates, but their own rates. Each time they can make an exchange when processing a player transaction, they can slice around 1% off, and often the player doesn't notice because they are expecting an exchange loss anyway, but they probably blame their banks or card companies.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
See the listing for Cassava on our "No Can Do" List. We list LuckyAce as one of their properties, mainly because the inside people that handled Lucky Ace issues (back in the day) were 888 Plc/Cassava Enterprises people.
They still are.

Funny how such a group of lying ripoffs like 888.com/Luckyace/777.com/Cassava has such a 'good' reputation... must be from all those ethically/morally challenged webmasters that still advertise for them.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
They still are.

Funny how such a group of lying ripoffs like 888.com/Luckyace/777.com/Cassava has such a 'good' reputation... must be from all those ethically/morally challenged webmasters that still advertise for them.

They have "clout". They have people who "know people", so they can easily give the impression of being a solid reputable company. They have been around a long time too, so have learnt so many tricks. Even if the webmasters cut the advertising, they would be replaced. They already advertise on TV, and this is much more far reaching than being promoted on websites. Getting an advert on the telly also lends credibility to the organisation, because viewers believe that they would never have been allowed to advertise if they were in any way rogue. This, though, is wrong - ability to advertise has NOTHING to do with their behaviour, it is merely a function of them being licensed in a whitelisted jurisdiction, and having the money to pay for the ads.

This is NOT the first time they have lied either. They lied about Reef Club. It was supposedly "nothing to do with them", but this was an INSULT to our intelligence since EVERY TIME you left the 888.com website, you got one of those annoying exit pop-ups "...play at our sister site Reef Club". Despite this overwhelming evidence, their execs STILL kept up the lies, and this just made it CRYSTAL CLEAR they were LYING, and INTENTIONALLY so. Whilst they probably get away with some of their tricks, the fact they have been caught out in a lie several times means we are going to assume that everything they say, or promote, that looks a bit "iffy", is the sign of yet another lie.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
Out of interest and I am asking this because I have no desire to go near a cassava website to find out the answer, let alone play at one of their casinos. But do 888.com still hold your withdrawal in a pending state for one week before flushing it?

Or have they finally cottoned on that this was in fact a bad business practice?
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
Out of interest and I am asking this because I have no desire to go near a cassava website to find out the answer, let alone play at one of their casinos. But do 888.com still hold your withdrawal in a pending state for one week before flushing it?

Or have they finally cottoned on that this was in fact a bad business practice?
Nope, they still do this.

In other news, their support staff suck.

Email to them:

"I have a neteller account which I used to deposit to and cashout from luckyacecasino. This account is denominated in US$. I deposited $200 on 23rd August - I was charged $205.25. I cashed out $200 on 11 September - I was credited only $194.49. I complained to live chat, and they said my account was being charged in pounds, and that it had been changed to dollars. I then cashed out my remaining balance was short-changed by $99.51 when it was credited to my neteller. In total I have been short changed by $110.25 Could you please ensure that this money is credited to my neteller account ASAP. Thanks "

Response:

"In regards to your e-mail, we have been informed by the Transactions Department, that you had a choice of selecting the currency and that you chose USD when you registered. Now for us to be able to check into this issue for you, you will need to send us a copy of a bank statement ( internet copy not valid) via e-mail to us, this will be sent to the department who is in charge of this issue and they will respond within 24 to 48 hours."

So I reply back saying:

"I paid by neteller.

There is no bank statement.

As you can see from my screenshot:
<screenshot of Neteller>
you have overcharged me as I stated."

To which they reply:

"Thank you for contacting us.

My name is Terrence, and I am pleased to assist with your issue today

In regards to your e-mail, we have been informed by the Transactions Department, that you had a choice of selecting the currency and that you chose USD when you registered. Now for us to be able to check into this issue for you, you will need to send us a copy of a bank statement ( internet copy not valid) via e-mail to us, this will be sent to the department who is in charge of this issue and they will respond within 24 to 48 hours"

I don't see why I should send them my bank statement, they have paid my withdrawal already, and I complied with their ID requirements before doing so. The bank statement doesn't help at all in resolving an issue with neteller.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
As a player, I cannot understand why the vast majority of people do not do their research. I know myself for a fact I would hate to play at a casino whereby there is a full 7 working days period before your withdrawal is flushed and removed from the pending state.

I guess by Cassava still employing this, it increases the overall value of a player. As I am sure there is a large percentage of players, tempted to win more after withdrawing a nice win, thus reversing the withdrawal and subsequently losing what they had won. :rolleyes:

Let alone any other tricks or jumps an operator may make you perform to get hold of your winnings.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Nope, they still do this.

In other news, their support staff suck.

Email to them:

"I have a neteller account which I used to deposit to and cashout from luckyacecasino. This account is denominated in US$. I deposited $200 on 23rd August - I was charged $205.25. I cashed out $200 on 11 September - I was credited only $194.49. I complained to live chat, and they said my account was being charged in pounds, and that it had been changed to dollars. I then cashed out my remaining balance was short-changed by $99.51 when it was credited to my neteller. In total I have been short changed by $110.25 Could you please ensure that this money is credited to my neteller account ASAP. Thanks "

Response:

"In regards to your e-mail, we have been informed by the Transactions Department, that you had a choice of selecting the currency and that you chose USD when you registered. Now for us to be able to check into this issue for you, you will need to send us a copy of a bank statement ( internet copy not valid) via e-mail to us, this will be sent to the department who is in charge of this issue and they will respond within 24 to 48 hours."

So I reply back saying:

"I paid by neteller.

There is no bank statement.

As you can see from my screenshot:
<screenshot of Neteller>
you have overcharged me as I stated."

To which they reply:

"Thank you for contacting us.

My name is Terrence, and I am pleased to assist with your issue today

In regards to your e-mail, we have been informed by the Transactions Department, that you had a choice of selecting the currency and that you chose USD when you registered. Now for us to be able to check into this issue for you, you will need to send us a copy of a bank statement ( internet copy not valid) via e-mail to us, this will be sent to the department who is in charge of this issue and they will respond within 24 to 48 hours"

I don't see why I should send them my bank statement, they have paid my withdrawal already, and I complied with their ID requirements before doing so. The bank statement doesn't help at all in resolving an issue with neteller.


So they ADMIT they are doing wrong then, since they should be paying in dollars.

Perhaps a complaint to Neteller, telling Neteller that this particular merchant is DEMANDING that Neteller supply a NON-Internet statement before they will deal with the issue of overcharging. You can easily demonstrate this to Neteller by showing them the transaction from the casino end, and the matching OVERCHARGED transaction at Neteller.

If this is one of their outfits that are registered with eCogra, you could send a complaint through them too.

They are a "no-can-do" here, but if they are deliberately obstructing due process when players attempt to use the internal complaints procedures (the ONLY thing now on offer), then maybe it's time they caught the late bus to Rogue City.

Overcharging customers, and continuing to do so when challenged, is what would be considered FRAUD were it the other way around (player using a "currency dance" to shave a few percent extra from the casino each time they deposit or withdraw).
 

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