Cassava have stolen from me

heador112

Full Member
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Germany
Cassava have stolen 193 Great Britain Pound from me ! I made Pab against them but they havent answered :mad:

Some days ago they told me its due to the "bonus abuse ".

I have played 3 card Poker with 3 GBP Ante bets and Single hand Videopoker with 10 GBP .


They are rogue stay away from them :mad:
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
[Note: The OP's post originally appeared in the Cassava locked my account after ungrounded accusation of bonus abuse thread. Since it's a separate issue and unrelated to the original topic I split it off into it's own thread]

As I explained in my emails to you the situation with your PAB is that we were told by Cassava Operations people that they would no longer discuss player issues with us. So it's not that they haven't answered it's that they won't answer, ever, period, case closed.

See our Warning, Cassava Enterprises refuses to discuss player issues, for details.

Cassava properties are now listed on our "No Can Do" List.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Cassava have stolen 193 Great Britain Pound from me ! I made Pab against them but they havent answered :mad:

Some days ago they told me its due to the "bonus abuse ".

I have played 3 card Poker with 3 GBP Ante bets and Single hand Videopoker with 10 GBP .


They are rogue stay away from them :mad:

If this is a FULL account, then it DOES rather look like they are not cooperating with the PAB service here because they KNOW they have no case in many of these situations.

"bonus abuse" with regard to 3 card poker is placing BIG BETS relative to starting bonus, usually on the pair+. The bets on single hand VP DO seem a little large, as although I prefer the 4 hand MGS versions, my equivalent single hand bet is 5 GBP (20 GBP per round 4-hand).

In order to discuss this further, we need to know what you deposited, and what bonus you took. WE also need the terms for the bonus, since some cases are due to failure to read the rules.

Since Cassava have said they do not "do" PAB, there is no reason NOT to discuss the case here (unless you are progressing a complaint through eCogra for example, where it might be best to hold off other than to ask for advice).

The two Cassava complaints do rather look like they are operating a semi-rogue policy of auditing the gameplay of winners looking for reasons not to pay, rather than looking for clear breaches of terms or fraud. If they are being allowed to spread the net of reasons for "bonus abuse" too wide, on top of them being vague, then they will be more or less choosing who to pay, with little regard to the actual published rules - this is the territory of the rogue casino.

This should serve as warning to other players, who should remember the Lucky Ace farce where Cassava pulled "bonus abuse" on large numbers of players, and were found, in many cases, to HAVE NO CASE for non-payment of the player. BY REFUSING now to co-operate with outside dispute resolution services, they can "pull another Lucky Ace" on players, and NOT have to face scrutiny, nor have to issue apologies and repair their credibility as they did after Lucky Ace. Cassava are a HUGE enterprise, and can muster a sizable advertising budget. They have been around since online casinos were born, but this does NOT mean they cannot turn to the dark side and begin screwing players over.

Without the availability of arbitration, players are faced with using the courts, or gaming regulators, to pursue any complaints. Cassava are relying on the fact that whilst many players will complain, few will have the willpower to pursue a complaint on their own, and this is why they are afraid of allowing a third party such as the PAB service to help the player.

There are a HUGE number of cases where a player HAS attempted to pursue a complaint on their own, and has got NOWHERE in months, and along comes PAB, and the casino "all of a sudden" sees the entire issue as "an administrative error", and the resolution often goes the way of the player.
 

heador112

Full Member
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Germany
"bonus abuse" with regard to 3 card poker is placing BIG BETS relative to starting bonus, usually on the pair+. The bets on single hand VP DO seem a little large, as although I prefer the 4 hand MGS versions, my equivalent single hand bet is 5 GBP (20 GBP per round 4-hand).

In order to discuss this further, we need to know what you deposited, and what bonus you took. WE also need the terms for the bonus, since some cases are due to failure to read the rules.

I played only ante and raise bets no pair plus . I increased my Betsize on Videopoker because i was very unlucky with smaller bets . Im just happy i hit no royal flush......

I made a deposit of 100 GBP and received the 25 GBP Bonus from Racing Post Casino . After i had wagered enough the system released the remaining 75 GBP and i fullfilled the Playthrough for this bonus money and made a withdrawal of 293 GBP .

I havent violatet any bonus rules and played only allowed games . You can find their bonus policy here :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I have read the rules before i startet gambling .


After i made my withdrawal i received a message from Cassava Enterprises :

Dear ......
, This is Merisa.B from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd., Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for RacingPostGaming. I am contacting you in regards to your RacingPostGaming account with username "......". David, please be advised, your account has been permanently blocked for serious security issues. Your deposit amount of $100, will be cashed out and paid immediately back to your Credit card account. This will beprocessed in accordance to our cashouts policy. In light of the above you are asked to refrain from opening further account with sites owned and operated by Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar)Ltd, as these will also be blocked and any deposits not returned. We anticipate your cooperation.


Kind regards, Merisa.BOperations Department Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. [email protected]
 

heador112

Full Member
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Germany
Since Cassava have said they do not "do" PAB, there is no reason NOT to discuss the case here (unless you are progressing a complaint through eCogra for example, where it might be best to hold off other than to ask for advice).


I have already contactet eCogra but Racing Post Casino is not approved by them so they couldnt help me .


The Gibraltat Regulatory Authority is my last chance to get my winnings :(
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I played only ante and raise bets no pair plus . I increased my Betsize on Videopoker because i was very unlucky with smaller bets . Im just happy i hit no royal flush......

I made a deposit of 100 GBP and received the 25 GBP Bonus from Racing Post Casino . After i had wagered enough the system released the remaining 75 GBP and i fullfilled the Playthrough for this bonus money and made a withdrawal of 293 GBP .

I havent violatet any bonus rules and played only allowed games . You can find their bonus policy here :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I have read the rules before i startet gambling .


After i made my withdrawal i received a message from Cassava Enterprises :

Dear ......
, This is Merisa.B from the Operations Department at Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd., Cassava Enterprises manage operational services for RacingPostGaming. I am contacting you in regards to your RacingPostGaming account with username "......". David, please be advised, your account has been permanently blocked for serious security issues. Your deposit amount of $100, will be cashed out and paid immediately back to your Credit card account. This will beprocessed in accordance to our cashouts policy. In light of the above you are asked to refrain from opening further account with sites owned and operated by Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar)Ltd, as these will also be blocked and any deposits not returned. We anticipate your cooperation.


Kind regards, Merisa.BOperations Department Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) Ltd. [email protected]


"serious" security issues eh! Sounds like BULLSHIT.


Could you do us a favour though;)

Reply to Merisa, and ask for a FULL LIST of the sites operated by Cassava Enterprises so that you can comply with their request.

With this, you have them backed into a corner, as they do seem a little secretive about some of the sites they operate. IF they refuse to disclose this, then they are NOT enabling you to properly comply with the request, and this should strengthen your case with Gibraltar (especially if they miss out the Racing Post site). You could also complain to the owners of the Racing Post too, as they are the public face of the casino as far as PR impressions are concerned. This could be folowed by a complaint to the advertising standards authority if the Racing Post is advertising this casino for it's readers.
If you have contravened NO terms and conditions, you should then go ahead and submit a complaint to Gibraltar, and we will see how effective Gibraltar is at policing the sites it licenses.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... ask for a FULL LIST of the sites operated by Cassava Enterprises ....

If you get it, post it! I've asked for exactly that list several times and received exactly nothing in response.

From what I can tell they're in no rush to make that kind of info public since many of the sites that eventually refer their player complaints to "Cassava Operations" say nothing whatever about Cassava on their site(s).
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
If you have contravened NO terms and conditions, you should then go ahead and submit a complaint to Gibraltar, and we will see how effective Gibraltar is at policing the sites it licenses.

I doubt very much Gibraltar will do anything. I say this from experience of working in the industry there for 5 years and having lived in Gibraltar for 6 years.

Cassava is one of the largest private employers on the rock and rightly or wrongly they have a lot of clout.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
I doubt very much Gibraltar will do anything.
I agree. Too bad to because Gibraltar's support for honest online gaming would have given the push for online gaming regulation a big boost worldwide.

However, most everyone that pays attention to these type of matters sees that Online Gaming Regulation and Enforcement in Gibraltar is/has been corrupted by cassava and their ilk.

One thing I can guarantee is that when 888.com/cassava attempt to come back into the States and partner with Harrah's my keyboard is going to be on fire as I write to the law makers and whatever regulatory authority ends up covering online gaming in the USA detailing cassava/888.com/777.com/supro/luckace's dirty dealings with players and affiliates. I hope you all will join me in this effort when that time comes.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
I agree. Too bad to because Gibraltar's support for honest online gaming would have given the push for online gaming regulation a big boost worldwide.

However, most everyone that pays attention to these type of matters sees that Online Gaming Regulation and Enforcement in Gibraltar is/has been corrupted by cassava and their ilk.

One thing I can guarantee is that when 888.com/cassava attempt to come back into the States and partner with Harrah's my keyboard is going to be on fire as I write to the law makers and whatever regulatory authority ends up covering online gaming in the USA detailing cassava/888.com/777.com/supro/luckace's dirty dealings with players and affiliates. I hope you all will join me in this effort when that time comes.

The fact that Cassava will not mediate with respected third parties such as CasinoMeister when player disputes arrive shows their outlook. I mean even the likes of Ladbrokes who are much bigger in terms of revenue, profit and standing than Cassava would deal with CasinoMeister and other third parties in resolving player disputes.

Cassava's steam roller approach to everything from their history of dubious search engine optimisation techniques to their stupid 7 days pending withdrawal requirement ( is this still in force? ), is the reason I will not promote them or play at their properties.

They exude an arrogance that comes across that they ARE THE INDUSTRY.
 

Trollet

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Location
Sweden
"serious" security issues eh! Sounds like BULLSHIT.


Could you do us a favour though;)

Reply to Merisa, and ask for a FULL LIST of the sites operated by Cassava Enterprises so that you can comply with their request.


Good Luck with that list...
Seems it will be a HUGE one :D

Registrant Search: "Cassava Enterprises Ltd." owns about 215 other domains
Email Search: is associated with about 493 domains

Registrar History: 3 registrars with 2 drops.
NS History: 7 changes on 6 unique name servers over 2 years.
IP History: 9 changes on 7 unique name servers over 2 years.
Whois History: 6 records have been archived since 2007-12-09.


Trollet
 

heador112

Full Member
PABnononaccred3
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Location
Germany
If you get it, post it! I've asked for exactly that list several times and received exactly nothing in response.

From what I can tell they're in no rush to make that kind of info public since many of the sites that eventually refer their player complaints to "Cassava Operations" say nothing whatever about Cassava on their site(s).


I doubt they will give me the list but i will try to get it .

I doubt very much Gibraltar will do anything. I say this from experience of working in the industry there for 5 years and having lived in Gibraltar for 6 years.

Cassava is one of the largest private employers on the rock and rightly or wrongly they have a lot of clout.


I agree. Too bad to because Gibraltar's support for honest online gaming would have given the push for online gaming regulation a big boost worldwide.

However, most everyone that pays attention to these type of matters sees that Online Gaming Regulation and Enforcement in Gibraltar is/has been corrupted by cassava and their ilk.

One thing I can guarantee is that when 888.com/cassava attempt to come back into the States and partner with Harrah's my keyboard is going to be on fire as I write to the law makers and whatever regulatory authority ends up covering online gaming in the USA detailing cassava/888.com/777.com/supro/luckace's dirty dealings with players and affiliates. I hope you all will join me in this effort when that time comes.


So what would you do in my position ? It it a waste of time to contact the GRA ?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I doubt they will give me the list but i will try to get it .







So what would you do in my position ? It it a waste of time to contact the GRA ?

YES!!!

In many cases, online operators expect complainants to give up. Often, their last chance was coming to a place such as Casinomeister, having already given up hope of pursuing the complaint themselves, to find that the PAB service was there to give them hope. It is FACT that PAB has brought justice to many players wrongly screwed out of winnings by operators, as well as FACT that the PAB service has caught out fraudsters, who might have continued to masquerade as innocent wronged players had they just continued to "bitch & moan" in forums.

Cassava looks pretty dodgy right now, and IF they are running what looks like a secret policy of limiting the number of accounts individual players may have across all sites run by Cassava (what I think is behind the "serious security bullshit" that has lead to the claims of "fraud" by them against the OP), they surely MUST provide prospective players with the information that the site they are about to deposit into IS indeed run by Cassava, and that they should therefore NOT proceed in making an account.
The way Cassava currently operate in this respect is potentially rogue, since they are able to keep their mouth shut if the new player with other Cassava accounts loses, but can pull "serious security issues" when they win. This is a no-risk way for the casino to make money whilst having no risk they will lose. If a PLAYER operated in this way, they are called FRAUDSTERS, because a PLAYER's method of "confiscating winnings" is to issue a chargeback for their losses.

There is, of course, the SLOW method- which is based on the fact that Cassava operated sites will all be using Cassava software. This can be deduced BEFORE having to give details to register a REAL MONEY account, either by merely viewing the installation itself, or registering a FUN account.

Other ways may be search engine based, such as looking for a search phrase that might only appear on a Cassava casino website - this might be the name of a popular slot game, for example, and then the resulting results can be checked to see whether they are indeed a Cassava site.

If Cassava are so large as to "own" the Gibraltar regulatory authorities, this is VERY bad for the industry, and adds to the list of regulatory bodies who seem dependent on the licensing revenue to the point of allowing the rules to be broken rather than risk losing the revenue.
IF Cassava are behaving in this way by attempting to "buy" their way past the need to obey the rules in Gibraltar, what does this mean for player's confidence in eCogra, where Cassava is one of the founding operators. There has already been some heated discussion as to whether it is possible to "buy" favourable decisions through wielding financial power over eCogra, with supporters of eCogra quick to assure players that the current set-up there prevents any one self-interested group from calling the shots. Where we have the situation developing that even governments, such as Malta and Gibraltar, can be "bought" by big players in the industry, how can it be PROVED to the doubters that bodies such as eCogra really CANNOT be compromised in the same way.

This case already shows the shortcomings, as whilst Cassava ARE both sealholders, and part founders, eCogra will NOT hear the case against Racing Post casino since this particular offshoot does not have a seal. I believe this is a loophole - the situation is NOT the same, say, as Microgaming where some of it's casinos have the seal, and some don't. Cassava don't merely supply the software, they OPERATE these casinos, so surely either the ENTIRE Cassava network should qualify for the seal, or NONE of them should get it. Players should be equally protected WHATEVER the particular Cassava operated skin they happen to have issues with.

Back to the issue at hand. Making a formal complaint to the GRA may not get you far, BUT it will STILL give you a better chance than the "do nothing" approach. It is the same with many issues between consumers and business. Persistent complainants can get justice merely by being persistent, and thus maybe a potential PR embarrassment.

The GRA is not the only route either, it is merely the FIRST. The route that casinos hardly ever have to face, yet fear the most, is being taken to court. This is common with many other businesses.

Here in the UK, there has been a running battle over bank charges being unfair. It was ONE MAN that set the ball rolling, and the banks stand to lose BILLIONS. This one man did the unthinkable, he took his bank to court claiming the charges were unfair, and he used the old consumer contracts laws. The bank was scared enough to pay up - because they feared that if they LOST the case, it would set a precedent, and they faced refunding EVERYBODY. Currently, the banks have more or less given up hope of winning, and are now fighting something that could cost them even more.

The hope here is that IF a casino thought a player was serious about taking them to court, they would review their decision, and certainly in cases of this type (woolly allegations of "bonus abuse"), they would be unable to prove their case beyond the balance of probabilities, whereas the player COULD provide ABSOLUTE proof that the terms and conditions as published were followed WITHOUT breach. It would probably never even get this far, as the likely outcome would be the proposal of an "out of court settlement", where upon receipt of the summons, the casino would send payment of the disputed amount. This would, of course, result in the player being considered "dangerous" in the sense that they are NOT one to take getting screwed over lightly.

I do not know yet of a case where an ONLINE casino has been taken to court, but OFFline, it has happened, and one famous case resulted in the casino LOSING. I believe it was the CASINO that took a player to court for return of winnings because the player "cheated". The player was certainly guilty of "advantage play". It was something to do with a laser device recording a roulette wheel - predicting the likely quadrant the ball would land in, and placing last minute bets accordingly. The casino LOST because this device merely MEASURED the game machinery, it did not "interfere with the outcome" in any way

Most online casinos have something in their general terms that provide for them being taken to court, and usually this lays out the jurisdiction they specify will hear the case. This is probably because they EXPECT to be the DEFENDANT, as whenever they are themselves the complainant, they bypass the courts, and simply confiscate the winnings.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I doubt they will give me the list but i will try to get it .







So what would you do in my position ? It it a waste of time to contact the GRA ?

Heador, it might be a waste of your time but a noble effort. It is unbelieveably arrogant of them to not even discuss your issues.

You have done a big service by bring this to further light here at CM.

It was several days before I thanked your post, because many disgruntled gamblers come to post their grievances. But it gives great credence to your claim with them that they will not negotiate with a third party.

Make them pay attention, I implore you. They may have the Gibralter courts in their pockets, but the more accusations, the more credible.

It's more than possible they may keep your money without a further fight. I do hope you have the time and energy to pursue a just cause.

I believe many online casinos will only pay those who complain publically or legally.

I try not to play at those places.
 

Trollet

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Location
Sweden
So..i found this stuff pretty interesting... and...since im the most curious girl on high heels.. i just had to look around some...

I really dont know what to say... but... i wish you good luck if you are gonna be sure to not have an account at more than one or a few of the sites Cassava Enterprises or Brigend Limited has....

This is what i found pretty easy....

888.com Poker
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:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Trollet
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
I've just been emailed by Platinum Affiliates enquiring about advertising possibilities with my sites and SuproCasino.com.

I have mailed them back declining the chance to work with them. I also cited this thread and The No Can Do List on CasinoMeister.
 
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