Casinoshare - Locking Account and demanding 'Certified Documents'

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
Hi All,

Had a couple of decent wins at Casinoshare last month totalling two withdrawals for just under 3K.

Then last week they sent me an email requesting ID, which I provided. However they've now come back to me saying that they've locked my account and they need 'Certified' copies of my ID.

I've NEVER had a casino ask for anything like that and it just seems like they're trying anyway possible to delay paying me which I think's rather rubbish.

Anyway, the real problem is I've got absolutely no idea where on earth you get certified documents from. They say they need to be 'signed/stamped by a commisioner of oaths' but I've had a search online and I can't find anything.

I'm in the UK, has anyone got any ideas where I can get this done?
 
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jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Your lawyer, or a Justice of the Peace (police officer, magistrate, priest or other person in a position of trust and responsibility) should be able to assist you f.o.c.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Anyway, the real problem is I've got absolutely no idea where on earth you get certified documents from. They say they need to be 'signed/stamped by a commisioner of oaths' but I've had a search online and I can't find anything.
Any solicitor, barrister, licensed conveyancer, notary public or legal executive will do.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
You should be able to find a notary or commissioner of oaths who will charge around 5 (unless you are in London or look rich). This may be per document.

One question to consider is what the casino is up to. Unless there is something out of the ordinary with your ID, they should NOT be asking for notarised copies. Indeed, once scanned and sent, notarised copies are no more "true" than normal ones. It is likely therefore that the casino will also want to contact the notary concerned to verify the documents - this has caused trouble before with casinos claiming they "can't get through". This is natural, as such learned folk are not a CS department ready to answer the phone 24/7 like a casino CS SHOULD be, they may need to pre-book a phone call through the secretary, and this will have to be UK office hours.

Such requests usually indicate that the casino has you flagged as "high risk" in terms of fraud, and this will certainly delay payment.

I played at Grand Monaco, which became casino share shortly after I joined, and like you I am from the UK. I have NEVER had to so much as supply "normal" documents, let alone notarised ones - I did not withdraw as much as 3K though.
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
They sent a check out which I've never received, which I believe must have caused the problem.

What is really annoying me now is that they're refusing to cover the fees for it to be notorised:

Kindly note that PlayShare cannot cover any fees incurred by this. Under very strict security guidelines we need to follow this process to ensure our casino's legality.

As this is law for all casinos, we will not cover any fees incurred by the player while a security check is being done.

And on top of that they've just blatently told me a bare faced lie - they're required by law to have this done. What a load of rubbish.

I'm going to PM their rep here. If they want me to get this done it's only fair they cover the fees.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
They sent a check out which I've never received, which I believe must have caused the problem.

What is really annoying me now is that they're refusing to cover the fees for it to be notorised:

Kindly note that PlayShare cannot cover any fees incurred by this. Under very strict security guidelines we need to follow this process to ensure our casino's legality.

As this is law for all casinos, we will not cover any fees incurred by the player while a security check is being done.
Would this be the "International Currency Law" invented by VPL? Have you asked them to quote you the exact law?
 

Mario

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Location
South Africa
They sent a check out which I've never received, which I believe must have caused the problem.

What is really annoying me now is that they're refusing to cover the fees for it to be notorised:



And on top of that they've just blatently told me a bare faced lie - they're required by law to have this done. What a load of rubbish.

I'm going to PM their rep here. If they want me to get this done it's only fair they cover the fees.

Hi there Dirk Diggler,

Thank you for getting in contact with us in this regards.

We truly understand your concerns and hope to set it straight with you.

Please note that we're in the process of getting approved by eCogra which requires us to make sure that documentations gets provided from our players should the need arise due to various reasons.

Please note that these documentation is merely for the casino purposes and most of the time it will be a once off request.

The requested documentation is to protect you as the player and to make sure that the registered account name is the actual person playing. As you are more than likely aware that it is to easy to create an account with false or stolen identities. So to avoid this we need to request documentation from our players and make sure that all the registered information is true and protected.

To tell you the truth there is no reason as to why you should be charged for getting your documentation certified (signed/stamped by commissioner of oaths, at any local municipal authority).

We suggest that you go to your nearest police station and ask them to certify the documentation for you.

But like I said they will not charge you at all.

However if you do get charged I will take it up with my superiors and see what I can do for you even though this is not the norm.

Please send the certified documentation to us so that we can get this matter resolved for you as soon as possible and get your winnings posted to you.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
Mario - thanks for the reply.

However are you saying that ecogra require you to get 'certified' id documents from players?

Considering I've never received such a request from ANY eCOGRA sealed casino I'd be amazed if this was the case.

Surely they just require you to get the usual copies of ID as any other casino asks for, which I've already supplied you?
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Would this be the "International Currency Law" invented by VPL? Have you asked them to quote you the exact law?

Perhaps it is time to boycott all casino deposits, worldwide until they become transparent. Don't shudder. If Casinos are privy to new regulations, they need to inform players in real time. It's our money, we want to know who's messing with it.
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
Things are definitely tightening.

Vinyl Weatherman posted elsewhere here:

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman
As from the start of business Monday 14th May 2007, there will be a change to the way we process international payments.

What's the background?

The USA Government requires that all international transfers processed through the USA be provided with all the transfer details. As all SWIFT payments worldwide are processed through the USA, any SWIFT transfer requested by you will have the full transfer details disclosed to the USA Government. This also applies to TIPANET payments that are sent to the USA.

The Data Protection Authority in Belgium has ruled that this is a breach of the Data Protection Directive and so the sender of the money must be made aware of this and be given the option not to proceed with the transfer if they are not in agreement to this sharing.
What does this mean to me?

If you ask us to send a SWIFT payment to anywhere in the world or a TIPANET payment to the USA, you will need to agree to a declaration about how the transfer details could be used.

We'll need you to agree to the declaration each time you ask us to do a SWIFT payment to anywhere in the world or a TIPANET payment to the USA. Unfortunately, we can't process your request in these circumstances without your agreement to the declaration.

TIPANET payments to other parts of the world and euroCHAPS are not affected by this change.

Nuts.
 

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
Totally absurd to request certified documents for amounts less then 10 thousand. This is a burden to the casino user, and not in anyhow the account owners benefit. Normal id , utilitybill, or id and two utilitybills should be perfectly enough. Also atleast in my country certified documents do cost money.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
automatic interbank payment transfer and transactions over 100keuro have had their own handling system for some time, that is why euroCHAPs and TIPANET are excluded.

Never to worry and not to panic, you're in good hands with bushco
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Utter Bull

Mario - thanks for the reply.

However are you saying that ecogra require you to get 'certified' id documents from players?

Considering I've never received such a request from ANY eCOGRA sealed casino I'd be amazed if this was the case.

Surely they just require you to get the usual copies of ID as any other casino asks for, which I've already supplied you?


The rep had better start being a bit more realistic. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that our busy police officers have nothing better to do than notarise documents. eCogra DOES NOT require notarised documents, the eCogra rules require that casinos request the standard set of ID documents when processing a withdrawal of 1000 credits or more, although there is no need to wait, the sooner the better.

The only way to get documents notarised for free is to follow the procedure used when applying for a passport, in that a "person of standing in the community" has to countersign the photo, and sign a declaration that it is a true likeness. It seems it is easier to get a UK passport than to play at Casinoshare:rolleyes:

I have used scanned copies of my driving licence (front and back), and front and back of any cards used to make a deposit. A second form of address ID is also asked for, in order to cross reference the address details from the first form (this is usually a utility bill, or a bank statement). One of the ID formats should contain a photo of the player. This will be on the drivers licence or passport. A photo pass can be substitited for these two provided it has been issued by a recognised institition, such as a local council or university student union card.

It is most certainly not "routine" to ask for these to be notarised. Notarised documents are ONLY requested if the casino believes there is a problem with the copies sent, such as them having been constructed/altered by photo editing software.

I have played at over 50 casinos since 2004, and while most of these have requested documents at one stage or another, especially eCogra ones, I have NEVER been asked to get my documents notarised.

There is really no need for this anyway, as once scanned and sent, a "notarised" copy is no better than the original. If the player had the police, say, sign their copy, and then scanned and sent it, how on earth would the casino know it was really the police that signed it, or just a friend (or even himself!). There will be NO way for the casino to check back with a body such as the police, they simply do not do this, only a proper commissioner of oaths will keep a verifiable record that the casino can check back with, and they will charge from 5.

If playshare are REALLY asking ALL players for notarised documents, they will lose players to eCogra casinos that will happily accept the usual scanned fronts and backs of the usual forms (Licence, passport, cards, etc).
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
To tell you the truth there is no reason as to why you should be charged for getting your documentation certified (signed/stamped by commissioner of oaths, at any local municipal authority).

We suggest that you go to your nearest police station and ask them to certify the documentation for you.

But like I said they will not charge you at all.
1. Why did some other casino employee make up this "law"?

2. Do you seriously think that the police deal with such things?


The only way to get documents notarised for free is to follow the procedure used when applying for a passport, in that a "person of standing in the community" has to countersign the photo, and sign a declaration that it is a true likeness. It seems it is easier to get a UK passport than to play at Casinoshare:rolleyes:
To get something notarised, you need to go to a notary public, and it won't be free, at least not in the UK.
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
Tried the police route but just ended up wasting over an hour of my time queing up - they don't do certifications. :mad:

It certianly looks like the only way you can get this done in the UK is via a solicitor/lawyer which will certainly cost.

Mario has informed me that the reason they wanted them certifying was that the relevent department believed they could have been tampered with. He doesn't feel they have when he looked at them so he's going back to them to hopefully sort it without the need for certification.

Rather annoying that I've used the exact same scan of my passport at loads of casinos without trouble, including several using microgaming.
 

cyprean

Banned User
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Location
Sun/Moon
International currency law. :lolup:

It sure seems hard to win at Casino Share.. first you have to beat the house edge, then the overwhelming casino verification requirements.

I would not agree that a player should get his ID certified for just lousy 3k. If the win was something of 30k then I would understand. Unlike the casino stated - eCogra does not require CasinoShare to get certified copies of ID.

Hang in there Dirk - I hope you will get your money soon! :thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
As expected

Tried the police route but just ended up wasting over an hour of my time queing up - they don't do certifications. :mad:

It certianly looks like the only way you can get this done in the UK is via a solicitor/lawyer which will certainly cost.

Mario has informed me that the reason they wanted them certifying was that the relevent department believed they could have been tampered with. He doesn't feel they have when he looked at them so he's going back to them to hopefully sort it without the need for certification.

Rather annoying that I've used the exact same scan of my passport at loads of casinos without trouble, including several using microgaming.

Well, now we know, suspicion of fraud. This is what is usually behind a request for notarised copies, but again, unless the casino was able to contact the official who notarised the documents directly, it serves no real purpose.
Given all the data the likes of Experian have on us, I am surprised casino don't use this route to verify players, it would likely be more reliable than asking for notarised documents, and would strengthen or quash the casinos case before they had to start asking the player questions that immediately gets them worried that the casino is just stalling.
The problem is really down to the rogue casinos that use documents merely as a stalling and denial tactic, making any exceptional request for documents from even an eCogra casino look to a player like the prelude to getting screwed over by a casino.

Why cannot eCogra start a central player verification scheme with all it's seal holders. This will mean players only having to prove themselves once, and in sealholders benefiting from a central verification scheme, which will be standardised. (Of course, it will rob casinos of one of their most valuable stalling tactics:rolleyes: ).
 

Mario

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Location
South Africa
Tried the police route but just ended up wasting over an hour of my time queing up - they don't do certifications. :mad:

It certianly looks like the only way you can get this done in the UK is via a solicitor/lawyer which will certainly cost.

Mario has informed me that the reason they wanted them certifying was that the relevent department believed they could have been tampered with. He doesn't feel they have when he looked at them so he's going back to them to hopefully sort it without the need for certification.

Rather annoying that I've used the exact same scan of my passport at loads of casinos without trouble, including several using microgaming.

Hi there Dirk Diggler,

Hope you are well.

We are sorry to inform you but we are not able to resolve this matter for you on our side and we will need you to certify the documentation.

Please note that we will cover the cost for getting the documentation certified as long as you send us the proof of these charges.

Can we please ask you to go and get the documentation certified by a solicitor and send it to us and we will gladly refund the charges.

It will greatly be appreciated if you can do this as soon as possible so that we can get your winnings sent to you.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 

Mario

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Location
South Africa
Hi there All,

We agree the process for sending documentation can be allot better and simpler and that is why we are looking at getting everything in-house.

At this time of point our Processing and Risk verification is outsourced and we are subject to service delivery from these outsourced companies.

We've tried everything from our side to get the documentation approved but due to certain irregularities on the documentation was not able to do so.

Thus we've requested to get the documentation to be certified and get it approved by the relevant department.

It is not the law to ask for documentation but to protect our players and there identities and information it is required that we make sure that the person who is registered on the account is the actual person in question.

I do believe that some or most casinos do use documentation as a stall tactic but can assure you that this is not with us.

We will go out of our way in resolving any issues which you might have and make sure that your player experience expectations are met.

All in all we are working hard at getting our players especially US players there money and will go out of our way to do so.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
We've tried everything from our side to get the documentation approved but due to certain irregularities on the documentation was not able to do so.

Can I ask what irregularities you're talking about?

It's quite amusing that you use the same backroom staff as other microgaming casinos for ID's and that I've used the exact same ID at every other casino that's asked for it without problem.

So the exact same department that have accepted it before on numerous occasions now claim there are irregularities :lolup:

Anyway now you've agreed to pay the fees I'll contact a solicitor to get them certified so hopefully this'll be the end of this. May get a chance to do it tomorrow but if not it'll be the middle of next week as I'm away for the bank holliday.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Can I ask what irregularities you're talking about?

It's quite amusing that you use the same backroom staff as other microgaming casinos for ID's and that I've used the exact same ID at every other casino that's asked for it without problem.

So the exact same department that have accepted it before on numerous occasions now claim there are irregularities :lolup:

Anyway now you've agreed to pay the fees I'll contact a solicitor to get them certified so hopefully this'll be the end of this. May get a chance to do it tomorrow but if not it'll be the middle of next week as I'm away for the bank holliday.


Well, Mario seems to think there are NO irregularities. if the documentation is identical to that sent to other MG casinos, this problem should not arise, and it is worse still that the external department still won't see the light after intervention from Mario.
If there really IS no problem with the documentation, this demonstrates that innocent players ARE getting wrongly accused of fraud, and no one is seeing sense in these cases. Certainly, if it really is the same external department that has passed these documents before, and now fail then, they have a great deal of explaining to do. It is as though they are not using proper objective methods to assess documents, but are using an inexact process that can give different results on different occasions when presented with the exact same facts.
If there are "certain irregularities" on the documents, they have always been there from the first time they were used. I fail to see what is to be gained by having them notarised - what does this change - you get a set of documents with a countersignature from someonr who claims to be a solicitor - oh no; you get a SCAN - made from a set of documents that has been signed by someone who says they are a solicitor.
If the external department thinks there is something wrong, are they really going to be impressed to see a signature added. How do they know if it is genuine, it will be a solicitor local to the player, not one that the verification company know of.
 

Mario

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Location
South Africa
Well, Mario seems to think there are NO irregularities. if the documentation is identical to that sent to other MG casinos, this problem should not arise, and it is worse still that the external department still won't see the light after intervention from Mario.
If there really IS no problem with the documentation, this demonstrates that innocent players ARE getting wrongly accused of fraud, and no one is seeing sense in these cases. Certainly, if it really is the same external department that has passed these documents before, and now fail then, they have a great deal of explaining to do. It is as though they are not using proper objective methods to assess documents, but are using an inexact process that can give different results on different occasions when presented with the exact same facts.
If there are "certain irregularities" on the documents, they have always been there from the first time they were used. I fail to see what is to be gained by having them notarised - what does this change - you get a set of documents with a countersignature from someonr who claims to be a solicitor - oh no; you get a SCAN - made from a set of documents that has been signed by someone who says they are a solicitor.
If the external department thinks there is something wrong, are they really going to be impressed to see a signature added. How do they know if it is genuine, it will be a solicitor local to the player, not one that the verification company know of.

Hi there Vinylweatherman,

Hope you are well.

That is exactly our concerns as well and thus we want to move all the outsourced processing and risk evaluation in-house due to these service providers irregularities.

However we are still under contract with these companies and it will take time to move everything in-house.

We're working on it.

Our goal is to make playing with us hassle free and less frustrating by streamlining customer service and players gaming experience.

Yes it is a big asks to ask but we will achieve this by hard work and also the feedback from our players and addressing these in a proper manner and making sure that the correct processes and procedures are in place.

Keep a lookout for us as we will be one of the best casinos out there soon.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 

Mario

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Location
South Africa
Can I ask what irregularities you're talking about?

It's quite amusing that you use the same backroom staff as other microgaming casinos for ID's and that I've used the exact same ID at every other casino that's asked for it without problem.

So the exact same department that have accepted it before on numerous occasions now claim there are irregularities :lolup:

Anyway now you've agreed to pay the fees I'll contact a solicitor to get them certified so hopefully this'll be the end of this. May get a chance to do it tomorrow but if not it'll be the middle of next week as I'm away for the bank holliday.

Hi there Dirk Diggler,

Hope you are well.

Dirk we totally agree with you in that this is a bit of a drag and if it was up to us we would have let this slide.

However unfortunately this is out of our hands.

We are not able to comment on which irregularities been found on your documentation due to a security reasons and we do hope that you understand this.

However it will really be appreciated if you can get that documentation certified at your earliest convenience and we will get your winnings posted to you as soon as the documentation has been approved.

Yet again we would like to thank you for your patients and understanding in this matter.

Best Regards
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 
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