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Casinos make your debit-card a mean loan shark

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by kimss, Mar 29, 2006.

    Mar 29, 2006
  1. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Well, I had problems comming up with a good title for this thread, but I will make up for that here. The reason I write this post, is to inform the ones out there which isn't already aware of this - It seems that some of the casinoes out there have a calculated way of completing the deposits from your account slowly. I can only guess that this is a mean way of makeing people like me spending money we don't have!

    And just to be clear, let me add thatin a perfect world this would never be a problem, but then again I guess there are many people like me out there. There are even those which will look at this as an extra advantage, but surely its an extra edge which only will hurt you.

    Let me exmplain! I got my self a debit card, just to be on the safe side so that i wouldn't be able to gamble my way into debt. Or in other words, not being able to gamble money I dont have at hand atleast. It has now been over a week I guess since I uninstalled all casinoes, but still there are ticking in transactions on my bank account eating away $100's. I just transfered $1000 to my account yesterday which I thought I was to be using for a little vacation this weekend, but when I checked the account just now there was like $100 left... Sems that a bunch of deposits to Roxy Palace now was completed from last week...

    I know how this credit card business works. You do a authorization, to check if the account is good for the money - then you do a capture and grab the money. The capture can be done at once, or you could delay it, but since we we get instant delivery (we can play for the deposit at once) there are no reason for why the capture should not be completed at once. If the amount is only authorized your balance will still reflect the purchase (deposit), until it goes 20 days or more and the autorization is canceled, or the capture occures and your balance is updated. But what happends with the casinoes is this :

    Say your bankaccount balance is : $1000, and you have debit card to be safe, just like me. You then deposit $500, your balance would then still be $1000, but your available credit would be $500. Most of us know that there is a difference between accuall balance and available balance. After a deposit of $500 my balance is $1000, and available is $500.

    However what happends, is that next day you are back with a $1000. The $500 deposit is for some reason released it seems. It almost seems that the autorization is canceled. Then after a few days, it's re-autohized and captured.

    Whats wrong with this picture?
    Its kinda obvious, but I'll say it anyway. In real life, we deposit a little here and a little there. And many of us doesnt keep track of all the deposits, but infact look at the available balance on our account. If we scale this example it becomes very clear. One day you are charging your card here and there till your empty. Next day you transfer more funds into your account ready for more gameplay, and during the day your account magically gets funds back. As you are depositing until you hit $0 on your balance, you end up with depositing twice the money you accually had!

    Your debit card becomes a mean loan-shark if you dont pay attention!

    As stated in the beginning, if I were to keep better track of all the deposits I had been doing all the time I would know excactly what I had available. Even if my account was showing $5.000 I would know that I accually only had $2000, since I deposited the other $3000 some days ago on different casinoes.

    Lets head over to present time, it has now passed 8 days since all casinoes were uninstalled - meaning it's been atleast 8 days since my last deposit. And still my account balance has not been straightened out. I hope that todays charges on my account are the last of the ghosts from last week spooking me.

    But the fact remains, deposit today and your account will be charged in 8 days... I wonder how many times I would be able to deposit the same money in those 8 days if I was counting on it? Scary scary!

    I don't know if it's legitimate to try blaming anyone besides myself, but knowing the fact that I'm a gambling addict it sure as hell doesn't make my life easier with a loan-shark-credit-card system like this. I can only imagine that a credit card would be much worse...
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Mar 29, 2006
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I've seen this but i keep a record so i know whats due. That said, i gamble in $ and my account is in .

    I have been caught out on occasions where what i think has stayed withing the bounds of my account, once the banks currency translation is taken into account, takes me over by 1 or 2 and incurs a 25 penalty to boot!

    My account is purely a gambling account so divorced from my day-to-day account but still, you need to keep an eye on it.
     
  4. Mar 29, 2006
  5. CasinoForumu

    CasinoForumu Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Bursa
    I am agree,keeping a record is best way.
     
  6. Mar 29, 2006
  7. jonevegas

    jonevegas Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Compulsive Gambler
    Location:
    Gods Country Canada
    I can't agree more, I always keep records, dollars in, dollars out = balance. I guess if your out of control it will work against you, just give yourself limits. I have actually opened a bank account at a seperate banking institution just for online gaming so when the monies gone I cant just transfer more, especially when your down and chasing.
     
  8. Mar 31, 2006
  9. occ123

    occ123 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT professional
    Location:
    USA
    Really good post and really good point, kimss, thank you. I just wanted to add that the same is true with Echeck. However, IMHO, using echeck is worse. It says they debit your account within 2-5 business days, but in my own experience it was more like the next day and 7 days later, very sporadic. I gambled 40k away and didn't realize how much it was till 2 months later because this is when all debits were finally up to date.....talk about scary :eek: Anyway, it is always an excellent idea to KEEP TRACK of your buys and DO NOT link your gaming account to your every day bank. Thanks again for bringing this up, it may save some folks a lot of MONEY!
     
  10. Mar 31, 2006
  11. scrollock

    scrollock Senior Member

    Occupation:
    google
    Location:
    boro, uk
    this situation illustrates the difference between electron/solo cards and standard debit cards, because once your account is read for available funds it is then marked and this money cant be touched till it is taken.

    i wonder if this is the reason why a lot of places will accept traditonal debit cards, but not the electron/solo cards.

    not that it matters much, because in a majority of places you can enter your electron card number, under the credit card option and you will be debited.
     
  12. Apr 3, 2006
  13. MissDevil

    MissDevil Dormant account

    Occupation:
    gamblingdevil
    Location:
    Aust
    Record keeping is the key. For any budgeting. I found my finances benefitted immensely by sitting down and drawing up a budget and keeping records... not only gambling but everything. Do it properly and you should never freak when a large bill comes and you;ll know exactly how much "play" money you have, whether its punting online or buying shiney new gadgets.
     
  14. Apr 3, 2006
  15. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    kimss

    To prevent any dangers I used to deposit x amount into a debit Visa card when I required it. It was with the same bank that my other accounts were held under so transferring funds were instant.

    Regardless if it's a CC or a Visa/Mastercard Debit Card keeping an ongoing record is a wise choice imo. Put it this way if you treat it the same as you'd manage a cheque (check) account, you shouldn't run into any difficulties.

    If in your case $500 suddenly appears you'll know that a merchant did not reconcile the pending hold on that money you spent at XYZ casino or where ever, and you'll know not to touch it!

    IMO if it was me I'd be only placing what I intend to spend that day on the card, least this way your not going to get hit with overdrawn fees and such.
    Another good rule of thumb is to make sure you always have $50 in the account, that way when fees to do come out you've at least got the funds to cover them. Another way the bank may flog you for overdrawn fees. ;)


    PS Even though electron/solo cards are a different kettle of fish, the same management theory can be transposed. Personally a Visa/Mastercard debit maybe a better solution for you to obtain if you always running into this problem. Once the funds have been assigned to a marchant, the funds are not realocated back to your balance, which from my understanding is the BIG problem here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2006
  16. Apr 3, 2006
  17. tencardcharlie

    tencardcharlie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bureaucrat
    Location:
    The playboy mansion.
    I think everyone that gamble online should have a separate gambling account to make sure not to 'mix up' money for gambling with money for other expenses. It's just to easy to get carried away otherwise. Neteller is really good for this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Apr 3, 2006
  19. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You've got that right. They seem to cater to those with low impulse control that want to chase their losses...by saving your banking information so you just have to make a couple of clicks to make another deposit. No telling how many people may not keep throwing money away if they had to actually put this info in each time.

    Check out You must register/login in order to see the link.. It's the best prepaid debit card out there IMO - Sure it'll cost you a few bucks to put money in it, but it saves you the hassle of opening another checking account. I haven't had it denied yet.

    It also works as a checking account in a way. You can't use it via Neteller or any other wallet, but you can use it to recieve ACH withdraws as well as direct deposit.

    I believe the max amount you can have on it at one time is $10,000.

    edit: Another nice feature is that you can choose the option to have a savings account tied to it. It usually takes 24hr to transfer to/from that, so if you cashout, you can stick $ in there and know it's unreachable when you have that urge to try and get your losses back after a horrible session ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2006
  20. Apr 3, 2006
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Very good advice! :thumbsup:
     
  22. Apr 3, 2006
  23. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Very true! Its not only easy, it's almost to easy, :) Atleast till you get the "we cannot process your transaction now, pleasy try another depositing method", then it becomes more complicated, :D

    This is the time when the gears in your brain starts kicking in again, and before you know it you have a terrible revelation - You spent it all!
     
  24. Apr 3, 2006
  25. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    While we're on that subject, what's the deal with them having a 1 click option to deposit up to $1,000 (MG)? That's horrible for a compulsive gambler, especially if they're using InstaCash because you KNOW it's going to go through, whether you have the money in the account or not. If they actually had to stick the #'s in there, they may think twice about it.
     
  26. Apr 3, 2006
  27. cheekymonkey

    cheekymonkey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Loser
    Location:
    Back at my mums
    ill give a perfect example of debit card abuse

    about a month ago, i deposited about 1K from my debit card into ladbrokes - i only use this method or pay cash into their shops - i dont use neteller or anything like that

    i blew the lot - now the money normally leaves my current account 2 or 3 days later, but what i have now realised is, that if i deposit on a wednesday and the funds havent come out of my account by friday, the funds will reappear on saturday and sunday and then disappear again by the monday

    soooo...being the total losing compusilve gambler that i am, i was hoping that ladbrokes hadnt taken the money by friday - woke up saturday morning, checked my account online and voila! my 1K had bounced back - you can guess the rest - i deposited another 1k (about 5-10 deposits varying from 100 to 200) chasing my initial losses

    by the time monday came round my account was 1k overdrawn and my bank was on the phone to me IMMEDIATELY telling me if i do this again, they will close my account

    now thats what i call debit card abuse!!!
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Apr 3, 2006
  29. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Took alot to come out and say that. Kudos :thubmsup:
     

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