CasinoRoom won't pay 57,000 Pounds Super Hidden Rule

[Azzurri]

You can count on it, we won't penalize players if bets are kept under €50 when you have a bonus.

The LGA gave a recommendation and we will follow it, but we don't want to change the terms just yet until this matter is settled.

Translation:

We are currently filling in an application to be added to the rogue list.

Sorry CasinoRoom, but with every comment you make, the hole just gets deeper. Surely you see the rogue-ness in your responses?

You are essentially saying:

Come bet with us sticking to a limit that is not in the terms, however be warned that if you bet with us whilst sticking to the actual terms, you are at risk of not having any winnings honored.

Absolute madness!

 

[spintee]

Just one question, When does the 30% rule hit the fresh hold? say if you had £3 and bet £1.50 that would be 50% of balance and clear breach of rules, So when does it stop being the 30% max bet?

You can count on it, we won't penalize players if bets are kept under €50 when you have a bonus.

The LGA gave a recommendation and we will follow it, but we don't want to change the terms just yet until this matter is settled.

 

[Azzurri]

Just one question, When does the 30% rule hit the fresh hold? say if you had £3 and bet £1.50 that would be 50% of balance and clear breach of rules, So when does it stop being the 30% max bet?

Apparently the 30% rule now no longer applies as per the terms, and a new undocumented max bet of $50 has been applied, but yet to be written into the terms, although the LGA had advised them of a max bet to add to the terms, but that won't be added until this PAB is finalized.

Clear as mud to me.

I hope that clears it up for you spintee.

 

[spintee]

Apparently the 30% rule now no longer applies as per the terms, and a new undocumented max bet of $50 has been applied, but yet to be written into the terms, although the LGA had advised them of a max bet to add to the terms, but that won't be added until this PAB is finalized.

Clear as mud to me.

I hope that clears it up for you spintee.

Very clear I knew about the new £50 max and waiting on rule change until this is settled, It would of been good to no what was it? I remember seing rules years back at diff site and the fresh hold was a £10,

50 max bet rule is good low

 

[CasinoRoom]

The rule that we have in the terms is the 30% and this is the rule that applies and that we have since 2011.

We will follow recommendations, edit the terms, set a max cap per bet as this is a more practical approach and what we are looking into is a €50 max bet when you have a bonus.

I have pointed out we will not penalize players betting below €50, this is not a new rule it is an answer to a question made by one of the users here on a new approach that we want to implement in order to improve the customer experience.

We are well known for taking good care of our customers, for being flexible and fair.

Rules are rules, each casino has their own set of rules and users can chose where they want to play according to the rules they prefer. Our rule is not uncommon, or unfair, you can see that other casinos, also listed here in CM have exactly this same rule.

We sincerely appreciate all the feedback but we kindly ask you to let us handle this now through the PAB. We have all the evidence to support that the terms were disregarded but even so, we want to come to settlement with the player to demonstrate effective customer care.

 

[aceking123]

to be honest i think lets stop with all the comments on this , maybe im being old fashioned or something lets give the casino a chance to sort out this mess . i dont think looking at it there monsters by any form , lets wait to see what the pab comes up with the terms can be sorted out , give them a chance before we all get carried away . just my few cents

 

[dunover]

The rule that we have in the terms is the 30% and this is the rule that applies and that we have since 2011.

We will follow recommendations, edit the terms, set a max cap per bet as this is a more practical approach and what we are looking into is a €50 max bet when you have a bonus.

I have pointed out we will not penalize players betting below €50, this is not a new rule it is an answer to a question made by one of the users here on a new approach that we want to implement in order to improve the customer experience.

We are well known for taking good care of our customers, for being flexible and fair.

Rules are rules, each casino has their own set of rules and users can chose where they want to play according to the rules they prefer. Our rule is not uncommon, or unfair, you can see that other casinos, also listed here in CM have exactly this same rule.

We sincerely appreciate all the feedback but we kindly ask you to let us handle this now through the PAB. We have all the evidence to support that the terms were disregarded but even so, we want to come to settlement with the player to demonstrate effective customer care.

But, it is still possible to bet ABOVE £50 and be within the rules as they stand for pity's sake!
If you are implementing £50 how does the new player who hasn't seen this thread know that, if it ain't yet in the terms??
You're in danger of fanning the flames by now implementing a 'hidden' term, surely?
There's nothing stopping you editing the terms NOW. It's well documented that you and us know what the terms were at the outset of this dispute so no-one will shout 'foul' if they are edited ASAP.
Or are you afraid that changing them before the PAB conclusion will damage your case and add weight to the OP's?

 

[spintee]

The only conclusion I have come to relating this statement

I have pointed out we will not penalize players betting below €50

Is that once you go below 50 than the 30% rule does not matter,

If I am wrong than than your right about them flames

But, it is still possible to bet ABOVE £50 and be within the rules as they stand for pity's sake!
If you are implementing £50 how does the new player who hasn't seen this thread know that, if it ain't yet in the terms??
You're in danger of fanning the flames by now implementing a 'hidden' term, surely?
There's nothing stopping you editing the terms NOW. It's well documented that you and us know what the terms were at the outset of this dispute so no-one will shout 'foul' if they are edited ASAP.
Or are you afraid that changing them before the PAB conclusion will damage your case and add weight to the OP's?

 

[CasinoRoom]

Thank you, it's just a reference, a way to make things easier for everyone, since there is a bit of confusion now as of how this rule affects casual play and for instance what if you bet €4 if you have €10 left, or what if you bet 4cents if you have €1 left. We will not monitor bets below €50, yet those who still want to bet higher, please do it according to the rule that we have in the terms.

Rest assured we will edit the terms. We are working on this already.

I really want this to go through the PAB I think we all want to see how it develops, so let's give it a shot and settle this matter for once and for all.

We never had PAB in the past, and we've actually never had complaints of this nature ever and that is at least 5 years.

We want this matter to be concluded fairly and thanks again for all the feedback and now we look forward to the PAB.

 

[dunover]

Thank you, it's just a reference, a way to make things easier for everyone, since there is a bit of confusion now as of how this rule affects casual play and for instance what if you bet €4 if you have €10 left, or what if you bet 4cents if you have €1 left. We will not monitor bets below €50, yet those who still want to bet higher, please do it according to the rule that we have in the terms.

Rest assured we will edit the terms. We are working on this already.

I really want this to go through the PAB I think we all want to see how it develops, so let's give it a shot and settle this matter for once and for all.

We never had PAB in the past, and we've actually never had complaints of this nature ever and that is at least 5 years.

We want this matter to be concluded fairly and thanks again for all the feedback and now we look forward to the PAB.

I know it may be hard to separate the two, but my main concern is the term itself rather than the PAB/OP as only you and Max know the full details of that so I couldn't objectively comment anyway other than what I have said as regards the principle of it. I have played at your site and been paid fast before, and would class it as one of the better ones.
You did say a few sites use a similar term, which is true but there are qualifications with them and they are far more specific.

The lack of specificity is the underlying issue here, and prior to that being amended there will always be suspicions that it's a subtle 'FU clause'.

 

[CasinoRoom]

I know it may be hard to separate the two, but my main concern is the term itself rather than the PAB/OP as only you and Max know the full details of that so I couldn't objectively comment anyway other than what I have said as regards the principle of it. I have played at your site and been paid fast before, and would class it as one of the better ones.
You did say a few sites use a similar term, which is true but there are qualifications with them and they are far more specific.

The lack of specificity is the underlying issue here, and prior to that being amended there will always be suspicions that it's a subtle 'FU clause'.

I understand what you mean and I agree that specificity is the key. Rest assured that the terms will be edited and that we will make sure the rules are 100% clear. This will result in a much more positive experience.

 

[zanzibar]

And once again, you refuse to answer the simple question that would avoid all this confusion that you yourself have now described.

WHY WON"T YOU PUT THE LIMITS IN THE SOFTWARE ITSELF SO THIS CANNOT HAPPEN?

Keep dodging and I'll keep asking.

 

[randomiam]

while the rep is replying

here my question for the rep
ive played many many time my currency is aud my skrill is aud
i deposit lets say 100 you convert it to usd on deposit and then back to aud again
when i cash out its aud converted again to usd then aud again due to exchange rates over and over im losing cash
i lose like $6 out of every hundred easy and its been happening for ages
you owe easily over $50 prob $100 due to your payment system i have contacted support about this before
a 150 aud cash out ended up as 140 once .

 

[vorcirion]

here my question for the rep
ive played many many time my currency is aud my skrill is aud
i deposit lets say 100 you convert it to usd on deposit and then back to aud again
when i cash out its aud converted again to usd then aud again due to exchange rates over and over im losing cash
i lose like $6 out of every hundred easy and its been happening for ages
you owe easily over $50 prob $100 due to your payment system i have contacted support about this before
a 150 aud cash out ended up as 140 once .

this same thing happens in every casino basically. casumo...redbet...you name it. better to use the same currency in your skrill/neteller account and casino account if possible. it's like buying chips with 130usd and you get 100€ to play with. if you cashout the same 100€ you'll get 120usd. really sucks but what can you do.

 

[Przecinek]

Too few forum members who think rep is telling the truth.

Rules are rules, each casino has their own set of rules and users can chose where they want to play according to the rules they prefer. Our rule is not uncommon, or unfair, you can see that other casinos, also listed here in CM have exactly this same rule.

Really? Exactly the same - with an underscore. Ok ... Well I just looked at few casinos from the accredited list (alphabetical order)

777Casino:
5.7.3 -
placing single bets equal to, or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited until the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met

7Sultans Casino:
Point 31 -
Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 15% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met.

Bet-at
12.4.2 A user staking 20% or over of the value of their real money deposit in a single bet prior to wagering the deposit five times over,

Betsafe Casino:

Players cannot bet more than 20% of the initially awarded bonus amount in a single bet or game round on any of the casino games for the duration of the bonus wagering, otherwise the bonus and all associated winnings may be voided.

Should I keep going? You keep saying in a overconfident (even cocky) manner that everyone else has same rules, but you haven't even bothered to check them. As a matter of fact none of the casinos have a "rolling" max bet rule. You are welcome to prove us otherwise.


-------
Also we didn't get a clear reply regarding the question that was brought by many: What will happen if I have 50p left and proceed to place a min bet on Thunderstruck II (30p). Rep did not answer this questions as it was a rhetorical one. Why would anyone want to pat Casinoroom on the shoulder with terms like these is beyond me. There's only one solution, pay the player in full (assuming he's legit) and admit that CasinoRoom has copied sloppily terms&conditions from other websites without fully understanding how they are supposed to work. This is the only redeeming solution imo.

 

[randomiam]

this same thing happens in every casino basically. casumo...redbet...you name it. better to use the same currency in your skrill/neteller account and casino account if possible. it's like buying chips with 130usd and you get 100€ to play with. if you cashout the same 100€ you'll get 120usd. really sucks but what can you do.

my casinoroom account currency is aud my skrill is aud
they just convert it back and forth so much i lose money

100 deposited to aud account from aud skrill account if i cashed it out at the same hundred i would receive anywhere from $95 to $97 dollers
the issue is they convert to usd and back again twice thats what takes my cash . i play at casino luck or vera john 32red ect where i have aud accounts i get my whole $100 casinorooms system is riduclas im going to add it all up one day and ask to be credited this amount as it is owed to me

 

[CasinoRoom]

zanzibar that would be ideal, but the process is a bit more complicated than that, we will do the max bet, that is a more practical approach and results in a better experience.

Przecinek, I said that other casinos, also listed here in CM have exactly the same rule, not that everyone has the same rule; any variation of this rule has it's pros and cons. Regarding your other question I already answered it in a previous post.

randomiam please contact support and we will be happy to look into it.

 

[Journeyman]

but why does a customer has to search in a sub-sub-sub-link to discover this rule? why not clearly state it or even just tell your customer when he accepts a bonus?

 

[Przecinek]

Przecinek, I said that other casinos, also listed here in CM have exactly the same rule, not that everyone has the same rule; any variation of this rule has it's pros and cons. Regarding your other question I already answered it in a previous post.

Can you please point the casinos you are referring to? (that have the exact same rule). Am I curious.

 

[spintee]

Can you please point the casinos you are referring to? (that have the exact same rule). Am I curious.

A quick butchers about & I found this,Looks like the same rules but only 15% and only bonus,

Irregular Play is deemed when the casino detects unnatural player betting patterns. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:
Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 15% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met.
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values.
Placing high value bets with the single intention of increasing your balance, thereafter you substantially decrease your bet size, while reasonably not decreasing your bankroll.
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette.
Employing a strategy by which high value bets are placed on any game with playthrough contribution weightings less than 30% (any table games, card games, video poker, etc.) and then proceeding to place bets of less than half of the prior average bet value while changing game type to higher weighted games (slots, casual games, scratch cards, etc).

 

[Przecinek]

A quick butchers about & I found this,Looks like the same rules but only 15% and only bonus,

Irregular Play is deemed when the casino detects unnatural player betting patterns. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:
Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 15% of the value of the bonus before the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met.
Using the double-up feature to increase bet values.
Placing high value bets with the single intention of increasing your balance, thereafter you substantially decrease your bet size, while reasonably not decreasing your bankroll.
Even money bets on Sic Bo, craps, baccarat, Wheel of Riches and roulette.
Employing a strategy by which high value bets are placed on any game with playthrough contribution weightings less than 30% (any table games, card games, video poker, etc.) and then proceeding to place bets of less than half of the prior average bet value while changing game type to higher weighted games (slots, casual games, scratch cards, etc).

Thanks but I think that's different. In this case you can place bets up to 15% of the bonus that was given to you. Which means that if you get say 100 euro bonus, then max bet is capped at 15€ regardless of what your current balance is.

Devil hides in the details as they say
Also I haven't heard of any casino employing this kind of "running balance" rule, since as others have pointed out it would inevitably lead players to a lose-lose situation once their bankroll is almost depleted. That's why it's Casinoroom that is under fire and not some other casino outfits.

 

[randomiam]

a point in there direction

i talked to support about my conversion complaint and the money i was loseing due to it
they where happy to make up for it and sorted it out quick
i am happy with the outcome
i know mine was not the main complaint but i glad it solved so to the rep and casinoroom thanks

 

[Azzurri]

i talked to support about my conversion complaint and the money i was loseing due to it
they where happy to make up for it and sorted it out quick
i am happy with the outcome
i know mine was not the main complaint but i glad it solved so to the rep and casinoroom thanks

Hey randomiam, you seem to be in Australia like me, so thought I would just add this as a thought.

I mainly play at Guts, Betat, Luck, Next, V&J, and although we do get the said amount in our accounts when we deposit, you do realize that we still theoretically don't get the full amount as our financial institutions then charge us a 'foreign currency conversion fee' as a percentage of our deposit, as these casinos deposit in USD or more commonly EU currency. I don't mind too much, but when you add this fee on top of the deposit fee most casinos charge for CC transactions, then it does add up when you are a regular player like myself.

If you don't get this, then I'd be interested to know who you bank with, as I may need to change accounts.

 

[randomiam]

Hey randomiam, you seem to be in Australia like me, so thought I would just add this as a thought.

I mainly play at Guts, Betat, Luck, Next, V&J, and although we do get the said amount in our accounts when we deposit, you do realize that we still theoretically don't get the full amount as our financial institutions then charge us a 'foreign currency conversion fee' as a percentage of our deposit, as these casinos deposit in USD or more commonly EU currency. I don't mind too much, but when you add this fee on top of the deposit fee most casinos charge for CC transactions, then it does add up when you are a regular player like myself.

If you don't get this, then I'd be interested to know who you bank with, as I may need to change accounts.

im just using skrill aud account
for cash outs and deposits i just have skrill hooked to my commonwealth bank and deposit via poli option its around a $5 fee to get you skrill balance sent to your account just wait till i have a few hundred really it could be a 50 or 5000 the fees only a fiver if i cash in before 11pm melb time the cash is in my bank by 5pm the next day if you have 6k per 3 months turn over you can get a skrill mastercard to chuck in the atm and pull cash out straight away still waiting on the card so im not sure on fees but using credit cards from australia is not a good option for me as there no cashback to most cards

 

[zanzibar]

zanzibar that would be ideal, but the process is a bit more complicated than that, we will do the max bet, that is a more practical approach and results in a better experience.

Thanks for answering in the end.

I totally disagree that putting a max bet clause in the T&Cs is a "better experience" than enforcing it in the software. Better experience for who exactly? If you only put rules like this in the T&Cs then they can be broken accidentally resulting in public complaints, customer service issues, and lost customers. You don't seem to be able to see this but it is costing you (and every other casino that does it) money. A cynic might suggest that you know that full well and that you save more money by denying players who win their money...

Now imagine you had the max bet rule enforced by the software. No-one can accidentally break the rule because the games won't let them. When a player tries to raise their bet above the maximum allowed, the game stops them and shows them a short message telling them why. Same thing when they try to play a game that is disallowed for bonus play. No-one will be able to complain about having a win confiscated on here or elsewhere because it won't be possible. You won't have to deal with the complaints and your customer service team will be able to spend more productive hours dealing with helping people rather than fighting fires with angry customers.

I sense from your answers here saying "we just do what everyone else does" that, apart from being wrong as demonstrated by other posters, shows that you and/or your casino has the mentality of a follower. How about trying to be a leader instead? Think of the publicity and player goodwill you would enjoy if you made a positive pro-active step like I have outlined. I guarantee you that if you don't someone else will eventually and you will be back in the pack of hundreds of other casino clones with nothing original or special to differentiate them.