Casinomeister Warning, Diamond Reels using CND to deny player winnings

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
See the Warning: Diamond Reels is using CND to deny winnings.

We've seen a couple PABs regarding Diamond Reels (diamondreels.com) in recent months. In both cases the casino's final response was that they found the player listed in a CND (Central Negative Database) and that was their reason for confiscating the player's winnings. In neither case did the casino offer direct evidence against the players, only that the player was listed in the CND.

In our judgement a player being listed in a CND is basically hearsay evidence: someone, somewhere has flagged them as a risk player. There is no further investigation into the accusation, just the listing itself.

Furthermore the casino gives no advance warning that they will use the CND against players. When asked to explain why they did not the casino people simply said "most players are aware the CND exists." That may or may not be true but no player is made aware of the CND or it's potential impact on their winnings until it is too late for the player to make an informed decision.

If the casino wishes to use the CND listing as grounds for closing a player's account that is of course their business but any monies owed the player(s) should first be paid. In our judgement a CND listing alone is no reasonable grounds for confiscation, especially if players are not made aware, in advance, that a CND listing could be used against them.

WARNING: Diamond Reels is using CNDs to deny player winnings. Players are advised that this predatory policy can and will be used against them without prior notice.

Feel free to discuss here.
 

dpp00

Experienced Member
Joined
May 19, 2012
Location
uk
hope someones answering this

as i have no idea what the frazadoodle cnd is and how to avoid/protect/destroy :confused:
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
CND = Central Negative Database
This database of "suspect or fraudulent" players is kept by RTG, and as far as I understand it (and I could be wrong) is used by just about every RTG there is, in the verification stage just before the player's first cash-out is processed.

I don't know why Diamond Reels is being specifically targeted right now - I guess they are just the unlucky ones this time around.

The big problem with the CND (again, as I understand it), is that RTG will not discuss the reasons or listen to appeals for specific players. Once you are on their list, you are basically screwed :(

KK
 

cj1990

Experienced Member
PABnonaccred
webby
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Location
USA
Lets hope the casino speaks up.

I just recently started playing here, so far seemed like a great casino. Never had any mega wins here and only one cashout (requested monday, paid wire wednesday). Will watching this thread for sure.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I don't know why Diamond Reels is being specifically targeted right now ....

You could always ask. I would have reminded you that I generate Warnings based on PABs. As you will know a PAB relates to a specific casino, so any Warning resulting from a PAB will be specific to that casino. As stated in the Warning it was two PABs regarding Diamond Reels that precipitated the Warning.

IMO using a CND to deny player winnings without previous notice is basically entrapment because no matter what the player did they are (potentially) doomed from the start to have anything they win confiscated. In other words they are gambling with no chance of winning. The casino "knows" this from the moment the player signs up but does nothing to advise the player of their fate until it is too late.

If all RTG casinos are doing this then they are all equally culpable, IMO.

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect Casinomeister policy.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Thought it only fair to include the rep's response:
... There is a fact to be said that the casino reserves the right to apply decisions based on feedback and facts from 3rd party providers.

But parking that “formal” comment .. which is a fair one it must be said … lets also be fair to say that no casino would falsely add a player to a CND list unless there is a legitimate reason for them being there. If one has to question a CND, it starts raising questions about the integrity of the software providers who host and maintain these CND lists.

Max, the risk is too great for the casino in terms of banking relationships, loss to the casino as a result of fraudulent play or transacting, disadvantage to legitimate players in the pool, etc. Targeting the regions we do, the risk is far higher for us when it comes to fraudulent play or transacting especially. Potential loss of valuable processors, fines imposed etc.
 

rudy2005

Full Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Location
Los Angeles
comment about rep's response

Thought it only fair to include the rep's response:

I am one of the PAB's that Max refers to. I feel I need to clarify a couple of points. I fully support a casino's right to protect themselves against fraud. However, in my case there has been no allegation of fraud by Diamond Reels or any other casino. i have been playing online for several years. I have played at and still play at many casinos including many RTG casinos. This is the first time I have ever heard of this CND list. DR says I am on this list but they have not produced this list nor have they alleged that any fraud was involved.

In my case I had been playing Diamond Reels for approx 9 months and had been paid 3 cashouts without any problem. I then hit for 15,000. DR paid about 9500 of this and then abruptly stopped saying I was on this "list". In reading a complaint to my post by another player I now believe that when this player hit for 30,000 DR decided they couldn't or didn't want to pay any more big winnings and used this list as a reason to deny him and also the remainder of my winnings.

They say "There is a fact to be said that the casino reserves the right to apply decisions based on feedback and fact by third party providers" I believe they have the right to do this. What they do not have the right to do is take a player's action for months and then produce this list as a reason not to pay winnings. I believe Diamond Reels is using this list to put themselves in a no lose situation. This could happen to anyone.
 

Machik

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
Please help! Any suggestions? I'm willing to do anything!

It's been now a number of weeks since I found out that my PAB was not successfully resolved with Diamond Reels. I'm quite shocked by this and find it remarkable that they can not pay and not provide even a shred of evidence about this 'list' that I suddenly became part of AFTER I won $29,000. I was at first extremely upset but now I am simply determined to pursue this further. Does anyone here have any good ideas as to what I can do next to recoup that money? Is it best to go to the software provider? Or to the licensing commission (I don't even know if they are licensed)? Is legal action a reasonable thing? I'm completely open and willing to do what it takes. This is quite simply way too much money to simply walk away from.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions
 
Top