CasinoMax affiliate questions

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
Does anyone here advertise these guys?

I am very confused with their system.

I had a player win a jackpot lsst month and my account was -$4800. Plus some other players winnings. I noticed zero earning on my account or any action at all this month. I had $354 in commission to start this month, the next day $351. the next day 0. But no action on the accounts at all. So I asked whats going on. And thats when he told me he has 3 players in quarantine.

All the other casinos I advertise there is no negative carryover or anything. What happened the previous month has no effect on the next.

With casinomax if players wins the prior month, they put them in quarantine.

Ive spoken to the affiliate manager and I am really confused. He explains there is no negative carryover. Yet winning players get put into quarantine until they become profitable again. And he explained to me that if someone was -500 the previous month and then my commission for the next month is $1000. My commission would $500.

Is that not negative carry over?

Here is his exact explanation.

My question was: is this common practice because I have not seen it before and is this not negative carry over?

His answer:

Common practice for us and some others yes. Others carry forward others simply wipe the slate clean and somehow that works for them?

And no, negative carryover would be where you leave the negative in place and it affects the current months earnings.

So lets say you end last month on -$500 and this month so far you generate commissions of $1000, your actual balance would be $500.

And my question: What is quarantine and is that not considered negative carry over

His answer:

So if you have a winner, this creates a negative on your account for the casino it happened at.

If that negative is still there at month end we don't roll it forward into the next month, they go into quarantine and the negative balance is essentially wiped clean for the new month.

Quarantine is basically a place where the winning player or players sit while they work off their negative balance on your account. Once they do that, they'll then start to contribute to your earnings again.

Isnt that contradicting himself?

Anyways hope some of you can help me through this. As ive explained before my day job is not being an affiliate its just a thing I do on the side to help pay for some of the streaming I do. So just want to make sure all is on the up

Thanks very much



 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
It's basically a perversion of the big winner policy, but being applied to every winner which is rogue IMO.

I have a big winner player at Energy, but Norbert told me they only apply it when the net revenue for the initial month for that winner is -5,000 or more. I.E. I could have been -4600, and next month +1200 and I'd be paid the 1200. As soon as the big winner policy is applied that player is ringfenced until he/she becomes profitable at which point you are paid for them again.

This sounds like the casinomax programme is either taking the piss and applying BWP to winners of very small amounts OR not ringfencing the big winner and using your other players to pay the minus back. It's working like NCO on an programme which, er, claims not to have NCO.

Back door NCO by any other name. If what you've told us here is kosher then it's a piss-poor way to run the programme. Have you read their BWP terms?

Ask KasinoKing to take a look, he knows far more about RTG programmes.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Ive spoken to the affiliate manager and I am really confused. He explains there is no negative carryover. Yet winning players get put into quarantine until they become profitable again. And he explained to me that if someone was -500 the previous month and then my commission for the next month is $1000. My commission would $500.

Is that not negative carry over?
Partly, yes. Dunover has explained it perfectly.
I didn't know this myself until I met the guys at LAC in Feb and queried some odd things I'd seen on my reports.

It is player-by-player NCO - which at least is better than "all players bundled NCO", which these guys used to impose when they ran Affiliate Edge (Club World).
As far as RTG operators go, you could say they are "tight" - my only worse one for this is iNetBet (Full NCO).
But you have to weigh that against how they perform: they treat their players extremely well (which is very important for me) and their casinos are very popular - among the top 5 best performing operators I list.

KK
 

LA-Martyn

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Location
Spain
Hi all, thought I'd help clarify a couple of things if I can as I believe a few items have been confused in this thread. Also, I've not had permissions to post here until just now.

There was a point in there about me contradicting myself. This is the bit I think you've misunderstood...

Ive spoken to the affiliate manager and I am really confused. He explains there is no negative carryover. Yet winning players get put into quarantine until they become profitable again. And he explained to me that if someone was -500 the previous month and then my commission for the next month is $1000. My commission would $500.

Is that not negative carry over?

Yes that is negative carryover but that was just me giving you the example of that and how ours differs. You later go on to post my example of me explaining that from my email, but that's not what we have in place. Was just an example.

The way in which the quarantine (also can be known as ring fence) works is this...

IF you have a negative balance at month end.
The player or players that contributed to that negative get quarantined when the month end report gets closed off.
The negative caused will not then be carried forward into the new month, so you start on $0 and nothing less (i.e. not in a negative).
The quarantined player or players continue to work for you, just that they don't affect your balance until they've played back the win and are brought out of quarantine to start earning for you once again. Their numbers don't show in the main report, just in the quarantine report.

Let's say a winner plays back their winnings and more on the first of the new month, after the player has been put in quarantine, then any commissions due will be put back in to your account at the end of the month, again when the month end report is done to close of that month. You don't lose the player, they're still tagged to you, you don't lose out on those commissions and you can view their progress as the month progresses.


Side points:
Each casino works independently of each other, no bundling is done. A negative on one casino won't affect your earnings on the others.
We don't quarantine all players when a win occurs, just those that caused your negative at month end.


Does this help clear it up? If not, please let me know and if we need to change any wording or add wording to make more sense of this then we'll gladly do that to prevent any further confusions.
 

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
Yeah I understand the program now.

Should it be called revenue share though? When reading your home page there is some confusing points to me. In one part you state, "revenue share no strings attached" But then you keep scrolling and it mentions the quarantine thing. To me, that does have strings attached to it.

I will admit alot of the confusion does come on my end because I am not too familiar with all the terminology and what have you. But this is the first time I have ever seen this kind of program. Any program I am apart is straight forward revenue share or negative carry over, CPA, CPL.

Just want to make it clear while I do take issue with a few things not related to this with these guys, this is no fault of Martyns or anyone else's he is always very quick to reply and try to explain things.
 

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
I do have two other questions and concerns that maybe can just be discussed in one place instead of here and emails and what have you.

One of the enticements on your webpage that will attract affiliates is 50% revenue share for the first 2 months. You guys do not apply this, nor do you tell people they need to choose this themselves. Why isnt this automatically added? And when asking about it later on because I just assumed that would be the automatic setting like everywhere else I am part of that has deals like that, can this not be adjusted later on? Why isnt the automatic default setting? Seems strange to me.

Also, am I correct in thinking that this chart means from $0-$10,000 in deposits, the affiliates commission is 25%. Once it reaches the next bracket of $10,000-$20000 in deposits, the affiliates commission will be upgraded to 30% on the account?

Capture.PNG
 

LA-Martyn

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Location
Spain
Should it be called revenue share though? When reading your home page there is some confusing points to me. In one part you state, "revenue share no strings attached" But then you keep scrolling and it mentions the quarantine thing. To me, that does have strings attached to it.

You earn based on the revenue generated, we share this revenue and it is a revenue share.

One of the enticements on your webpage that will attract affiliates is 50% revenue share for the first 2 months. You guys do not apply this, nor do you tell people they need to choose this themselves. Why isnt this automatically added? And when asking about it later on because I just assumed that would be the automatic setting like everywhere else I am part of that has deals like that, can this not be adjusted later on? Why isnt the automatic default setting? Seems strange to me.

If you scroll down the page just below the commission plans then you see the following...

upload_2018-4-16_11-22-58.png
I don't have such a steady hand it seems, but apart from the aesthetics of my snipping tool skills this clearly stats that the 50% has to be claimed. unfortunately it's just the way the program works and I don't believe that we hide it in any way or try mislead affiliates.


Also, am I correct in thinking that this chart means from $0-$10,000 in deposits, the affiliates commission is 25%. Once it reaches the next bracket of $10,000-$20000 in deposits, the affiliates commission will be upgraded to 30% on the account?

You are almost correct, it does reflect those brackets but it's based on Net Win not deposits. Net Win is the end revenue (profit) that is shared in which these levels relate to.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Thanks Martyn, I don't think you could have been much clearer. And it sounds pretty fair to me.
 

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
You earn based on the revenue generated, we share this revenue and it is a revenue share.



If you scroll down the page just below the commission plans then you see the following...

View attachment 90303
I don't have such a steady hand it seems, but apart from the aesthetics of my snipping tool skills this clearly stats that the 50% has to be claimed. unfortunately it's just the way the program works and I don't believe that we hide it in any way or try mislead affiliates.




You are almost correct, it does reflect those brackets but it's based on Net Win not deposits. Net Win is the end revenue (profit) that is shared in which these levels relate to.

Ah ok didnt see it written down below. To be fair there is alot on your homepage to go through but thats no fault of yours and obviously a good thing.

I still think it should not say revenue share no strings attached. When a quarantine system is strings attached.

From your home page and how much detail and information is down below, I do not feel like you try to hide things either. There is a plethora of information.

As always, thanks for taking the time to address issues and explain them. I can say there are alot of affiliate managers out there that would simply ignore me or tell me to get bent if I asked all these questions of them :laugh:
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I think a "string" attached would be an obligation. Like you get this ONLY if you do this. You become a puppet for the casino brand. :p

The Master of Puppets.
 

LA-Martyn

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Location
Spain
I still think it should not say revenue share no strings attached. When a quarantine system is strings attached.

By the sounds of what you're saying, you're looking at the quarantine as if it's a bad thing, but it's not, it's working in your favor. If we didn't run with that, we'd have negative carryover.
 

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
By the sounds of what you're saying, you're looking at the quarantine as if it's a bad thing, but it's not, it's working in your favor. If we didn't run with that, we'd have negative carryover.

Well it is. You dont have to choose between either negative carryover or quarantine. Most casinos, actually every casino I work with has neither. Its just straight up revenue share and whatever happened the previous month has no bearing on the next. All players stats reset and you start fresh. So compared to them, of course it is.

I do understand its the way it is though. Casino and affiliate programs choose how they want to run it. And thats that.
 

LA-Martyn

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Location
Spain
Well it is. You dont have to choose between either negative carryover or quarantine. Most casinos, actually every casino I work with has neither. Its just straight up revenue share and whatever happened the previous month has no bearing on the next. All players stats reset and you start fresh. So compared to them, of course it is.

I do understand its the way it is though. Casino and affiliate programs choose how they want to run it. And thats that.

It's not a bad thing at all. In fact it prevents us having negative carryover and the quarantine stops you from being hit with any negatives from winning players from last month affecting you this month. And when a quarantined player loses back their win, you start to earn off them once again.

In my eyes, that's a good thing and stops us having things like traditional NCO and quotas in place.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Well it is. You dont have to choose between either negative carryover or quarantine. Most casinos, actually every casino I work with has neither. Its just straight up revenue share and whatever happened the previous month has no bearing on the next. All players stats reset and you start fresh. So compared to them, of course it is.

I do understand its the way it is though. Casino and affiliate programs choose how they want to run it. And thats that.
No, it's your choice. No one is forcing you to advertise for them.

Back in the day, most all affiliate programs had negative carry over, and paid 10-15% rev share. It's only via pushy affiliates demanding more rev share that many affy programs started inflating their rev share to +45% - which in the end is not viable, and the casinos will claw their money back some other way (shaving, etc., etc.). If you don't like the affiliate deal - don't advertise for them. It's that simple. Or ask for other types of advertising packages: CPA, media buys, etc.
 

BillyBonanza

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Earth
No, it's your choice. No one is forcing you to advertise for them.

Back in the day, most all affiliate programs had negative carry over, and paid 10-15% rev share. It's only via pushy affiliates demanding more rev share that many affy programs started inflating their rev share to +45% - which in the end is not viable, and the casinos will claw their money back some other way (shaving, etc., etc.). If you don't like the affiliate deal - don't advertise for them. It's that simple. Or ask for other types of advertising packages: CPA, media buys, etc.

Hence why I said "I do understand its the way it is though. Casino and affiliate programs choose how they want to run it. And thats that"
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
The first affiliate account that I joined was 4% rev share :p

And I thought, "Right on!"
 
Top