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CasinoLasVegas wtf

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by elvispresley1, Mar 2, 2009.

    Mar 2, 2009
  1. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork
    I have just been screwed out of 700$ by Casino las vegas. I had 2 pending withdrawals. One of 800 and one of 700 and i just received this email.

    "Please be advised that your previous withdrawal of $700 was declined, Will.From your total balance $800 was approved as your withdrawal and the rest wereremoved in your account. This is as per casino management decision since youplayed on non allowed game, which is Roulette, using the bonus that youpreviously received."

    This is completely ridculous. Ok i had played roulette with the bonuses but I made the wagering requirements of 1687$ which they requested at blackjack. After i made the wagering requirement I received this email.

    "Hello Will, This is Lotus from the Casino Las Vegas Support Team. We are glad to inform you that you already met the wagering requirement forthe bonuses that you received. You may now make a withdrawal request at the cashier and choose your preferredpayment method. Congratulations!"

    So, they accepted that I reached the wagering requirements and said I could withdraw, now they are going back on this. I dont think theres anything in their terms and conditions where you cant play roulette along with other games when u receive your bonus... Whats my play here folks? Am i just fecked? Can ye help me? Any good followup emails I could send?
     
  2. Mar 2, 2009
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Please refer to the forum rules when it comes to posting complaints - thank you.
     
  4. Mar 2, 2009
  5. UKDafoe

    UKDafoe Dormant account

    Location:
    US/UK
    File a dispute with Playtech. From what you've posted, it seems pretty clear they are violating their own ToS or just have really bad support that made you violate them. I think Playtech should make them pay you though provided you played roulette only after meeting the WR on an allowed game, like you said.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  6. Mar 2, 2009
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I've given the member access to post in this thread.
     
  8. Mar 2, 2009
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is unsafe. NEVER play a "restricted" game AFTER taking a bonus, and BEFORE ending the "contract" by withdrawing or busting. While it is a plain STUPID policy for a casino to require you to withdraw, and then immediatelly deposit again without a new bonus to play "restricted" games (it costs THEM more in fees), many of the shadier casinos will use this quite sensible shortcut as an excuse to screw a player out of winnings.

    IF you placed a very large evens roulette bet whilst still having unfinished WR, this is a known "advantage play" method, and is so well known by casinos that there is a 99.9999% chance you will be "busted". Funnily enough, the same play can be done with Blackjack, but this seems to be an allowed game. More nonsense from the casinos who seem to have this highly illogical fear of Roulette, a game with a far higher house edge than Blackjack, and that offers no more opportunity than does Blackjcak for this "advantage play" method.

    This is the same kind of illogical nonsense where casinos won't let you reverse a withdrawal for a promotion, but insist to deposit afresh (fees for them to pay) whilst leaving your withdrawal to be processed. Other casinos, on the other hand, have decided to offer players special offers on reversed withdrawals.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Mar 2, 2009
  11. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork
    Would this only happen at playtech casinos do ya think? It doesnt seem to make much sense. This basically means you cant play roulette on bonuses. Such bad etiquette as well asking me to clear wagering requirements hoping ill lose, and this failing, cancelling my withdrawal anyway. the 800 was a withdrawal after i removed bonuses so thats why that went thru grand it seems. But surely after I remove bonuses on my account after the hassle, they should realise that im not a bonus hunter? So, do I have no chance here? I contacted playtech as well. Also, casinolasvegas have not offered me a return on the intial deposits from which I received the bonuses, should I ask for a refund of these?
     
  12. Mar 2, 2009
  13. kmay87

    kmay87 Meister Member PABnononaccred PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    England
    As vwm said, the act of getting busted from a bonus by playing an 'illegal' game after clearing the wagering is nothing new. It's never a good idea to do this. Even when you might well have had cleared all the wagering, and had this confirmed by support, if you want to play one of those games, withdraw what's in the account and then redeposit. If you use an online wallet like Neteller or Moneybookers, this could just take a matter of minutes! And it would save this from occurring again.
     
  14. Mar 2, 2009
  15. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork

    I do use a moneybookers account and thi is what i tried to do....
     
  16. Mar 2, 2009
  17. kmay87

    kmay87 Meister Member PABnononaccred PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    England
    Perhaps I am reading your post wrong then. But I read it that you took a blackjack bonus, completed the wagering and had this confirmed by email, then played roulette and later requested a withdrawal. Support then told you that you played an illegal game and thus wouldn't receive your withdrawal. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :)

    Was this a sticky bonus? If they take it back if and when you complete the wagering, then even though the wager requirement may be x, it will usually be worded to the effect of 'you must wager a minimum of x times the bonus before you are able to make a withdrawal'. Therefore, although you met the WR, when playing roulette you were still playing with the bonus because you hadn't made a withdrawal and therefore the bonus was still active.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Mar 3, 2009
  19. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork
    Ya i played roulette during the meeting of the wagering requirement. Would this happen at all casinos? Should i ask for a return of the deposits which earned the bonus? As per their condition...

    "The casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully."
     
  20. Mar 3, 2009
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is the trap you fell into. You breached this rule, therefore you are only entitled to the return of your deposit. HOWEVER, these rules DO state that you ARE entitled to the deposit back, and this would apply UNLESS this was a FRAUD issue, rather than merely a "bonus abuse" issue.

    Playtech casinos are notorious for always ACTING on this right that they merely "reserve", and will confiscate withdrawals from everyone, including those who simply played a few "restricted" games as part as normal recreational play, rather than "advantage play".

    Playtech will simply say (if the bother to reply - don't bank on it) that it's in the terms, and you only get the deposit back. A PAB will result in the same outcome, nasty term, but it's there and is pretty clear.

    If you play with fire - expect to get burned:rolleyes:

    The reputable casinos will usually have more player friendly terms than these semi-rogue outfits, and would not use their terms to unjustly strip players of winnings, nor use them as a snare to trap the unwary.

    Withdrawing and redepositing is not all that much of an option for instant gratification though, Playtech casinos take ages to pay, and sometimes will pay the proceeds from an ewallet deposit by cheque or bank draft, seemingly at random:confused:
    Best would be to play a bonus in one, but play in a different Playtech for a bit of roulette, with no bonus to complicate matters should you win.

    If I am taking bonuses, I tend to stick to slots, and check terms before playing any poker games. Blackjack and Roulette I avoid completely, as it seems a new player claiming a bonus, and then getting caught at the Roulette or Blackjack tables, is one of the indicator flags casinos use for a potential "bonus abuser".
     
  22. Mar 3, 2009
  23. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork
    Thanks a lot, im gonna ask em back for the deposits. I actually asked them to remove bonuses from my account so there should be no problems from now on. Its funny how im considered a "bonus abuser" after Id asked for them to be removed... May i ask what a PAB is?
     
  24. Mar 3, 2009
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    PAB is an alternative means by which to make a complaint against a casino. It is effective against CM Accredited casinos (although not necessarily in favour of the player), and every member gets "one free shot" to have a complaint dealt with against a NON accredited casino (can be more difficult to pursue), except for a few in the Rogue pit, such as the Virtual RTG casinos, where it would be a waste of time, they won't pay once they have decided not to.

    Posting a complaint here can impede the PAB process, and with Max's current workload, this is probably what will happen. Casinos have more incentive to negotiate when they are ABOUT to suffer from bad publicity than when this has ALREADY HAPPENED.

    This case though is simple, you are entitled to your deposits back, but are unlikely to see those winnings from Roulette play whilst a bonus was active on the account. Most casinos will allow wagering on restricted games once WR has been met on a bonus, Playtech are notorious for not allowing this, as they consider the bonus "contract" is only complete once a withdrawal has been made.

    One reason for this may be down to how their bonuses work. With a sticky, it is possible to grind first, and THEN do the single big bet to double the balance. The bonus balance, although WR has been cleared, is not considered yours to use, and so its use in this way is still considered "bonus abuse", although this backwards approach to the strategy is of much less benefit than the normal version.

    These complications, and the way there is no standard interpretation of them, means that you should NEVER play restricted games at ANY STAGE while you have bonus money, or after meeting WR and "winning" the bonus money, UNLESS you have WRITTEN permission that this is allowed, which you can then use as proof that you were told this was the interpretation used by the specific casino you played.

    By continuing to play there without bonuses, you are simply allowing them to gain further from the way you feel they treated you. Why not play at an ACCREDITED Playtech casino. If you don't want bonuses, it does not matter what they offer other than good customer service, something which can be expected from a CM accredited casino.
     
  26. Mar 3, 2009
  27. elvispresley1

    elvispresley1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    cork

    Thanks, what playtech casino would you recommend? are there any casinos that would have the exact same games as CasinoLasVegas? I like the style of roulette they got there.
     
  28. Mar 4, 2009
  29. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    The Accredited List
     
  30. Mar 4, 2009
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
  32. Mar 4, 2009
  33. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    'PAB' is the shorty version of 'Pitch-A-Bitch'.

    You can read all about it in the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. There are other useful PAB links in my sig.
     
  34. Jun 9, 2009
  35. Chris_m

    Chris_m I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Product Manager
    Location:
    Europe
    Dear elvispresley,

    We appreciate the participation of any one that wish to gamble at our casino and as long as he qualify according to our responsible gaming conditions.
    You are a valuable client to us and we will always try to assist you the best we can.

    After this thread I am sure you are aware that Roulette is a restricted game when playing it with the welcome bonus and Black Jack is not, if wagering was completed on BJ before playing roulette you should have no problem cashing out all winnings.

    I completely understand the difficulty players have with the restrictions on bonuses.
    I would like to brig a few points on that matter for you to consider:
    :) Any Action you take in the casino is recorded and often due to legal obligation it is followed by a mailer that also applies when talking about deposits, bonuses and promotions. So always read the terms and conditions attached just to avoid any misunderstanding. If it is not in the terms and condition of the bonus it does not apply and we will not hold you accounted.
    :) Note that the bonus conditions are also posted on the website.
    :) Roulette has a build in deficiency thats we cant resolve in any different way then restricting it. As a Group we have a very high bonus ratio, and more important a high comp points exchange rate. This is to make our clients happy to give them a good winning chance as well as to stay competitive and attractive.
    Betting on the Red and Black or any two of the bets (or tree dozens) gives the option of accumulating Comp points with very low risk, Remember Comp points are converted in to real cash!
    :thumbsup: Once you complete the welcome bonus feel free to contact your account manager and work out a bonus deal that will include roulette.
    :rolleyes: If you Play Roulette with our group and you have requested to be bonus blocked. Very often if you are a loyal player we will offer you a cash back program (real cash with no wagering restrictions or any strings attached).
    :nod: Couple years ago we made a development request to Playtech asking that the bonus to be removed when entering the restricted game. This is not easy to develop as it may sound. Once the technical solution will appear you will notice all big gambling groups will merge there Casino and Poker room and offer one Cashier.

    You can find me in the I-Gaming section and if you wish, write me a private mail and I would be more then happy to check your complaint again make sure there was no mistakes made and provide you with more specific detail, just make sure you include your email registered in the casino or Username or full name.

    Live well, laugh often and play hard :cheers:
     
  36. Jun 9, 2009
  37. Janek12

    Janek12 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Translator
    Location:
    Europe

    It amazes me that a casino representative can say this. Doesn't he know about the house edge in single-zero roulette?
    If anyone bets on red and black at the same time, they are going to lose 2.7% of each bet on the average, while the standard comp rate at Playtech casinos is 0.1%. Which means that the net "profit" from each bet would be -2.6%.
    In order to profit from the comp points, the casino in question would have to have a comp rate higher than 2.7%, and I doubt that :).
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Jun 9, 2009
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Quick off the mark to spot the reps bullshine there mate:D Beat me to it:D

    Whilst he is correct about it being possible to cover all options, and generate a steady gradual loss, the strategy has little to do with gaining comp points, but all to do with grinding out WR on a bonus. Since Roulette does not count towards WR in this case, the argument against it fails.

    On top of this, it is NOT just players who play roulette like this who have trouble, but ANY player who even plays Roulette properly (i.e - a bet pattern giving a chance for a winning outcome).

    Covering all numbers will ensure that 2.7% of the total bet is lost each spin of the wheel. I very much doubt if the comps rate for roulette comes anywhere near this.

    An alternative solution would be to exclude roulette play from the comps program - no need to get Playtech involved for that, and would wipe out this "deficiency" in the game.

    Blackjack is equally "abusive" in this respect, with a much lower house edge, and far more chance to generate comps through play at modest stakes, yet this is ALLOWED for the bonus in question.

    If the rep argues that this has been solved by not giving high comps for BJ play - then it's GOTCHA time, because this prove the solution for the Roulette "deficiency" existed all the time.

    Last, but not least - 3 months to address the issue, pretty poor really (rep shows as being registered in March, about the time of this complaint).

    If the complainant was really such a valuable customer, WHY was this not resolved behind the scenes at the time, as far as we can see the OP was ambushed by a term he didn't really understand - and thus breached, and the casino took a "no negotiations" stance.

    I am surprised any casino really thinks a player will come back after they have had money confiscated for a reason that has not been properly explained to them, and one they therefore do not accept as just - even if it IS in the terms and conditions.
     
    2 people like this.

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