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    Feb 14, 2004
  1. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    casinoking.com = criminals

    i have made a deposit of 100 usd recieved 25 in bonus..
    had been playing black jack,&roulette wich is both games where bonuswagering doesnt count! that i understand and dont have a problem with..
    therefore i played caribbean stud poker that counts towards wagering requirements,talked tho their 24/7 online chat to have them tell me how much there is left to wager -780 usd i got in return..
    keeps playing this time i call their support to now if i have fulfiled my obligations or not!
    this time they say yes you have wagered enouhg on the card game!
    goes to cashiere to make a withdrawal,and after 4 obligatory transferpendingdays i got a mail back says that i have not fullfilled my playing on allowed games and therefore they will keep all the monewy on my account exxept my initial deposit of 200..

    SO THEY CLEAR MY ACCOUNT ON 21000 USD

    they are impossible to reason with,its redicilous to keep 21000 dollars cause a 25 dollar bonus that they anyway says taht i have wagered enough!
    have pitched a bith what more can i do to recive my money ?
     
  2. Feb 14, 2004
  3. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    They did a similar thing when another guy won a few thousand on roulette (at the time, the terms were very misleading but probably not now although the site is down at the moment). Wizard of Odds later advertised this group and had to resolve a similar problem with a player. Ask him what the situation was with that player. It is probably a similar story but it was sorted out in favour of the player. There is no reason to disallow these games in the terms unless they want to trick players.
     
  4. Feb 14, 2004
  5. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Caribbean Stud is certainly acceptable. If you really have not fulfilled your requirements, that's one thing, but if they say you met your requirements that's another thing entirely.

    If you pitched a bitch I'll let Bryan handle that - if not send me your details and copies of those emails and I will look into it for you.
     
  6. Feb 15, 2004
  7. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I'm getting really worried about Playtech powered casinos these days - they seem to be pulling all sorts of strange stunts and there have been many critical comments regarding the inefficiency of their centralized Support (Vegas Red etc etc etc) Playtech themselves are also not the most communicative.

    This certainly doesn't sound right or fair to me but If you've pitched a bitch I'm sure Bryan will sort it for you - and Spear is there for you as well.

    Good luck!
     
  8. Feb 15, 2004
  9. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    ihave pitced a bitch and hope that something will happen!

    i have a lot of mail saved ,but those only shows that i asks them what they are doing!
    the online chathistory are saved what i can find out on there website! then there shoul be no problem to solve this sinse i used chat-support to find out that i had only 780 usd left to wager and after that it shoul be very easy to prove that i wagered enough!
    i had played a lots of hands with the game "casino war" highest card wins. and bettet 300 usd each time..
    aldso bet maximum on stud poker many times 100 in ante & 200 to call..
    there is nothing in there terms and conditions saying that i cant play rouleette,win 1000 & lose 800 in any allowed game and finaly cash out 200..
    and certanly not clear my account..
    regards jimmy
     
  10. Feb 16, 2004
  11. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hi jimmylindholm,

    And welcome to the forum. Actually, this was dealt with last week and you should have heard something back from the casino. I'll double check to see what's up.
     
  12. Feb 16, 2004
  13. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    they havent contackted me by mail anyway! im checking it several times every day..
    but im not surprised not hearing from them.. :(
    /Jimmy
     
  14. Feb 16, 2004
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hi Jimmy,

    The casino has explained this to me, and the problem is that you kept betting on the wrong games while expecting this to apply to your wagering requirements. This is what they've explained to me:

    The player deposited $100 and received $100.

    He played Blackjack at first which is not in accordance with our terms and won a little.

    He then deposited again a few days later and received another bonus. This bonus allowed him to play Blackjack.

    The next time he played which was a few days later he continued playing Blackjack and Roulette along with some Caribbean poker and slots.

    He was told by online support that he played in excluded games but since he was new we would allow him to wager in allowed games until he satisfied the wagering the amount was about $780 required.

    He has not yet satisfied the first deposit bonus terms but we were happy to allow him to play on allowed games. He was told Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps were excluded.

    He then went on to play some Blackjack Switch and a bit more Caribbean poker and some slots. However each time he lost a little he would replenish his account with some sizeable even shot bets on Roulette and play some Blackjack. He was basically interspersing his games with Roulette and Blackjack, perhaps hoping it would go unnoticed within his allowed game play.

    He then continued playing big even shots on Roulette in later sessions until he finished on $21000.

    We have checked at least a half a dozen times with the auditing dept to see whether there was any way we have made any kind of mistake in calculating his account wagering as I wanted to be 110% clear that the action we were taking was justified. We sympathies with him as it is very unpleasant situation. We did our utmost to try and help him at first, but he did not listen and at the end of the day we could nothing more for him.
     
  16. Feb 16, 2004
  17. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    thats not exactly correct!
    made a deposit of 100 got bonus of 100 usd lost all & ten minutes after that !,not a few days !!
    deposited another 100 and got a bonus of 25 usd..
    got in response that there still is 780 to wager in allowed games!
    to meet wager requirements!,nothing else wa said about playing roulette!
    did not boost up my account playing even shots on roulette..

    sure i played on colors many times winning and losing about equal amounts but my winnnings came when i hit a plain number!
    4-6 times !
    Winning 3-4, thousand each time..

    just because i recived a bonus of 25 dollars on my last deposit they will remove all winings on games that are not allowed in wagering requirements?
    i lost many times more on allowed games..
    Still they told me on phone i met the requirements and would having no problems to cash out now!,then i had about 2000 on account when that call was made!,just a day or to after onlinesupport tells me there is 780 left to wager..

    it would be easy to solve by just looking om my gameshistory after that online-chat session if i wagerd enough or not..

    If that would be the case i wouldnt be so upset with their behaviour
    theres no problems for me understand why they have their regulations for bonuses and wager requirements..
    but not why i cant play as much as i want to on the games i wanted to play win some money and wager enough on allowed games!

    The regulations are if im correct ,to stop frauders to deposit 100 usd and go straight to the cashiere making a withdrawal of 125 usd without intentions to play at their casino..

    and not to scam new players
    i have reading their terms and conditions many times sfter this incident and cant that winning on not/allowed games may be voided if wagering is not fulfilled!
    nothing about
    iex win 1000 on roulette losing 800 in a alowed game & finaly cashing out 200..
    plz bryan is there any way for you to check my game history after my onlinechat where it was stated that only 780 was left to wager,,
    it sholdnt take many seconds to se that i did that after that message

    regards jimmy
     
  18. Feb 17, 2004
  19. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    i have now mailed to them asking to send me copies of my chathistory and gamehistory,
    but they ignore my request, doesnt even comments it!! ,only refereing to that i have been trying to wager on a game wich not counts towards wageringrequirements..
    i now it doesnt count towards wagering ,thats why i fulfilled my wagering on allowed games,

    they cant be meaning that if you recive any bonus of any kind!, you will not be able to win even if you wager on a allowed game???
     
  20. Feb 18, 2004
  21. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    they have now gived up :))
    recieved this mail this morning!
    Hi Jimmy,

    I am the manager at Casino King and after a stringent review of your
    account we would not normally reverse our decision.
    We do not usually allow withdrawals at all if any bonus wagering has
    been on roulette, irrespective of any allowed games being played.

    I have, however, decided that since the chat operator allowed you to
    wager on allowed games to fulfill the wagering we have an obligation to
    you, even though it went against our terms. We certainly hold true to
    our statements, whether verbally or through email or online chat.

    We strive to be honest and trustworthy and our priority is treating all
    our members fairly. I have requested that the balance of $20800 be
    returned to your account and the withdrawal to be processed.

    I am sorry that this episode ever occurred and I hope this never occurs
    again with any of our players.

    All the Casino King staff have been made aware of this situation and to
    do everything in their power to ensure will not happen again.

    Even though this has been an unpleasant experience I do hope you
    continue playing at the Casino as I am certain this proves you will not
    find a better online casino giving you the best service possible.

    If you need anything at all please feel free to contact me.

    Regards
    Harvey

    as they only returned my money back to my account of course i played a little bit more for about 30 min,,
    went to the cashier and made a withdrawal of 32073 usd..
    hopfully without any problems this time..
    happy regards /jimmy
     
  22. Feb 18, 2004
  23. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You are probably the most ungrateful player I've come across. After they clearly stated what you did wrong pertaining to the bonus terms and conditions, they reversed their decision in a gesture that exemplifies good will, and that they give a damn about their customers.

    They were right - you were wrong.

    To go about gloating as if you had "beaten" them is pretty damn ungrateful. This wasn't for a measly $100 bucks or so, This was for $20,800!

    How about a fucking thank you?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  24. Feb 18, 2004
  25. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Lucky but ungracious, I think.
     
  26. Feb 18, 2004
  27. caps

    caps Dormant account

    One would hope that this is just clumsiness with the language; if not, this guy really is an elite-league knucklehead. It strikes me as pretty extraordinary that this operation would hand him $20K, which he then turns into $30K, when (i) he was clearly in the wrong, and (ii) being very clearly in the wrong, he initiates a thread calling them criminals. Not sure I would have been so magnanimous about it . . .
     
  28. Feb 18, 2004
  29. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    ehmm sorry ,i think i didnt understand it realy!
    i thought i didnt do anything wrong when recievin their mail,
    that they somehow reversed their decition because i fullfilled my requirements as i first was told on phone!

    i didnt mean to be disrespectful in any way, the last they wrote in their mail to me was that they hope i would continue playing at their casino..
    so i did.. the odds are in their favor isnt it?
    should i appologise by taking my money and never risking to lose it back to them?
     
  30. Feb 20, 2004
  31. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Just to be clear on this, their terms disallow many games to be played at all but are not too clear at first (they were much more misleading before though). From reading the last email they sent, they normally always avoid paying winnings in these cases. They did this with another player who played roulette and it was posted on winneronline (You must register/login in order to see the link.). At that time, the rules just stated these games didn't count towards wagering but far deeper in the rules it said winnings could be voided.

    I don't see how this is good business practise at all because I think a good proportion of new players would play these games without realising this (probably a surprisingly high number) and not get paid if they are lucky enough to win.

    There isn't much of a real advantage in playing the games that don't count towards wagering requirements (you are almost as likely to win big with the allowed games). These terms shouldn't really be there unless they want to trick players out of winnings (iif you look at the old thread, the manager harvey didn't seem to have a clue about why the rule was there).

    Don't forget they were involved with the retroactive denial of bonuses/winnings too (You must register/login in order to see the link.) - las vegas/swiss/casinoking are the same group.

    There have been license changes in the past couple of years. The license was lumped together with the Tropez group for a while but they now they have separate licenses. I'm wondering what management changes have occurred.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2004
  32. Feb 20, 2004
  33. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    The casino has done the right thing here because the player can't really gain any advantage playing the games that don't count towards the wagering. They are also disallowed completely for some reason. This though is what Harvey wrote earlier about the roulette incident posted on winneronline (which I'm recapping here) which seems to show he missed the point:

    and :
    This can't be bonus abuse and shows he doesn't understand. The main point though at the time was that the rules were contradictory (they are much improved now).

    The casino should return deposits if players lose after playing one of the disallowed games (they have no chance of winning) but the casino simply doesn't return deposits for losing players but keeps the winnings from the winning players.
     
  34. Feb 21, 2004
  35. rowmare

    rowmare Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmeister and mom.
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    You must need a very thick skin to operate an online casino.

    Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    This takes the cliche "you can't please everybody" to a whole new level.
     
  36. Mar 5, 2004
  37. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bartender
    Location:
    sweden
    Hi everybody!
    I have now spoken to Max Fisher again and we have now agreed on a settlement wich will leave this case concluded.

    i belive that both parts will be feeling satisfied with the outcome of this matter!

    i want to thank especialy you bryan,for every help you have given me!,and every forum user who has taken their time to support me with dealing withs this matter..

    Yours sincerely / Jimmy
     
  38. Mar 5, 2004
  39. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Jimmy, keep posting until you have the money in your bank account. Reneging on agreements is not unknown in this business, especially by chisellers who have already tried to screw you.

    That said, I am genuinely glad that you have achieved a satisfactory settlement, and when you are paid this will be recognised.
     

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