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Casino770 : Faulty BJ software - RESOLVED

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Ferretktf, Jan 21, 2007.

    Jan 21, 2007
  1. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk
    I have a problem with Casino770.

    I registered and downloaded their software on Friday 19th January and proceeded to play Blackjack.

    However, I discovered some serious anomalies with the random appearing and disappearing of the SPLIT and DOUBLE Buttons.

    On the very first hand that I played these buttons were present. I split a pair and then doubled one of the hands. Both bets lost to the dealer hand.

    However, on subsequent hands on several occasions these buttons were missing and I was unable to DOUBLE when I wanted to, or SPLIT when I wanted to.

    Unfortunately I did not think to capture screenprints of the precise times that I wanted to Double/Split .... i.e. where the malfunctioning software caused me to lose money .... but after I had lost virtually all of my money I woke up to this and did capture some screenprints that I could use in a complaint to them.

    Here are those screenprints :-



    Screen Shot 1 : No option to Split. (Now I know I would not wish to split against the ACE ... but there is no option given even if i wanted to ... e.g. if the ACE was instead a 3 or a 4)


    [​IMG]




    screen shot 2
    - nothing special but note the ability to DOUBLE


    [​IMG]

    screen shot 3 - note that the DOUBLE button is missing --- so even if I wanted to double then I could not.

    [​IMG]

    I know these are not brilliant "game" examples because i would have not wanted to split or double .... but I just wanted to prove that I wasn't making it up when I said that this casino software was malfunctioining.


    I lost my 200 GBP deposit plus a 200 GBP bonus. All in less than 20 hands.

    I wrote to CASINO770 to complain about the faulty software and to ask if they would consider refunding my 200 GBP deposit. I said I would be quite happy for this refund to have a Wagering Requirement and I would play with it at their casino, only not on this specific game but instead on one where the software worked.


    I have had a "back and forth" e-mail exchange and these are the responses that I have had ...

    Response 1 :-

    After having checked your game statistics we inform you that we haven’t found any inconvenient.

    Concerning The Black Jack game we inform you that we haven’t registered any inconvenient or complainig regarding its functioning.



    Response 2 (after I asked them to please look at the screenprints and tell me why I did not see the SPLIT or DOUBLE Buttons) :-

    After having rechecked your game statistics and also the Black Jack, we assure you that we haven’t found any inconvenient and that as far as we are concerned, everything functions correctly.

    However we inform you that this kind of errors is due to your internet connection or internet provider breakdowns.

    In order to avoid this type of errors please check your internet connection before starting playing



    This is cannot accept - I have a perfect Internet connection that does not have issues - plus the screenprints were taken in a subsequent session, 12 hours after I initially experienced the problem ... i.e. I went back in to get proof that the software was faulty.

    At one point yesterday I though that I was getting somewhere...

    Response 3

    We get back to you, reassuring you that our service is currently analyzing your game stats and if the technical inconvenient is to be confirmed, we will credit your account of 200 GBP.

    Meanwhile, we inform you that your player account has been credited by 30 pounds to thank you for your patience and confidence.

    Good luck and have a lot of fun with casino770!



    However the "fun" didn't last when overnight I received the following e-mail

    Response 4 :
    After having reanalyzed your statistics of play line by line, we inform you that we have reveled no anomaly registered in our system during your play at Black Jack.

    In the future, if an abnormal posting or other anomalies occur during the game, we should be grateful if you sent us a print screen corresponding to the inconvenient, by mail, as file attachment.

    To make a capture of screen, please support the key "print screen" and then you open a document Word Paint, where you make click right to "paste". You have the possibility of sending to us the capture of screen by e-mail as file attached in format jpg.

    We ensure you that if there is a technical inconvenient we recognize it, we try to resolve it and we inform our customers.




    What can I do?

    What should I do?

    I know I should have stopped playing and taken a screenprint the very moment this happened, but I have supplied proof that the software is faulty, even if on the proofs I have supplied, most players would not have wished to Split or Double.


    I am also concerned - but cannot prove this concern - that on the occasions when it does offer you these options, you end up losing the hand ... e.g. my very first hand of 50 GBP which become 150 GBP After the split and double, and I lost when the dealer turned a FOUR into 21.

    I suspect his concern is probably unfounded and the only anomaly is in the random appearance and non-appearance of these buttons - but either way I have no confidence in this Casino or this software and at the very least I hope this posting can warn other players of the risks here.


    Thanks for reading - apologies for the long length - advice gratefully received.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2007
  3. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk
    Addendum :

    A friend has pointed out that it could possible be that there is a bug in the software that prevents you from doubling when a losing double would result in your balance being zero


    i.e. it does not correctly calculate your balance and does not believe you have the funds to be able to double



    This does not explain the split scenario - unless it is the same bug that is incorrectly calculating the balance.



    This may explain things although as Casino770 do not let you see your game history I cannot see if this occurred when I was wagering half my balance (which is something that I often do on BJ to get maximum +EV)

    I have e-mailed them with this suggestion though - I wiull post their repsonse here.
     
  4. Jan 21, 2007
  5. aodat2

    aodat2 Senior Member PABnononaccred PABnoaccred2 PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    I have a job
    Location:
    Malaysia
    I'm not really thinking about anything right now but if I see a casino that says this on their BJ table, I'll be walking out of the door before even thinking of playing with them.

    If you read the pictures properly, you will notice that it says "Dealer must stand on 16 and draw to 17".

    I'm not an English expert and I don't have a degree in English but that's totally STUPID!!!
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 21, 2007
  7. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk
    I have had a response to my latest e-mail

    We would like to inform you that after having thouroughly analysed your situation, we have revealed no anomaly during your play at Black Jack.

    Still, we want to mention to you that in order to double or split your bet, the credit of the player has to be higher than the bet. Thus, in the first two situations, your credit would have allowed you to split or to double, but the insurance didnt.

    If one of the cards of the Bank is an Ace, irrespective of you acceptance or refusal of the insurance, you have no longer the possibility to split or double.

    In the last screenprint, however, you bet ₤13, but your credit was equal to your bet and this is the reason why you could not split or to double anymore



    Can this be serious? Particularly the last paragraph which is the key one as typically you would not split/double against an Ace/Ten

    This was not mentioned anywhere in the rules of the game or the terms and conditions of the game?

    For high stakes players where you often stake half your balance this has the effect of swigning the advantage terribly in favour of the casino if you cannot split or double (some 5% I believe)
     
  8. Jan 21, 2007
  9. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk
    Their Rules

    1. Black Jack rules

    Our Black Jack game is composed of a dealer and a player.

    The dealer has 6 decks of cards, all mixed together.

    Before the dealer starts dealing the cards, the player chooses the amount he wants to bet by double clicking on the chips pile, varying from 1, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100 to 500, in order to place his bets. After placing his bet(s) the player must press the “PLAY” button.

    As soon as the dealer starts dealing the cards the player cannot change his bets anymore.

    Different buttons will light up according to the different possibilities and in order to facilitate the game play. For example, if it is possible to split the cards into two piles, the button “SPLIT” will appear allowing the player to play with two separate hands.

    The purpose of the Black Jack is for the player to reach or to be as close as possible to a total amount of 21 by adding the values of all the cards received by the dealer, per hand, but always without exceeding the amount of 21. The player will win the game if he has a total amount of 21 or if his total amount is higher than the one of the dealer, bearing in mind that he will lose the game, or “bust”, if he exceeds the amount of 21. If the amount of player is equal to the amount of the dealer, the player will have his initial bet returned. Each card will count according to the value of the number written on it. Figures like Jack, Queen or King have each the value of ten. With an Ace the player has the choice to count the card as 11 or 1 according to his preference.

    At the beginning of the game, the player receives 2 cards face up. The dealer will also receive 2 cards; one will be face up, the other one will be face down. The dealer will only return his “hidden” card once the player is done with his game. If the dealers total amount is between 17 and 21, the dealer must “stand”. By “standing” the dealer cannot hit anymore cards. If the total amount of his cards is equal or less that 16, the dealer will continue to hit cards until he reaches a total amount of 17 or more. As soon as he exceeds 21, the dealer loses the game and the player wins the bet.

    The player wins the game if the total amount of his hand is higher than the total amount of the hand of the dealer, without exceeding 21.
    All hands being less than the total amount of the dealers hand will loose.
    Hands with identical values will be considered as a draw or a “push”, and the player will have his initial bet returned.
    If the player has a Black Jack (which means he has a 10 or a figure with an Ace), he will win one and a half time his bet unless the dealer also has a Black Jack. In that case it would be a draw.

    “DOUBLE”
    The player can press the “DOUBLE” button after having received his first two cards.
    This option will automatically double the initial bet made by the player and the dealer will serve the player a third card face up.
    The player will not be able to receive any other card.
    It is only possible for the player to double when he receives his first two cards or after having split his game.

    “SPLIT”
    If the first two cards received by the player have the same value, the player will be entitled to split his hand into two different hands.
    This option will automatically place a bet, equal to the initial bet, on the second hand.
    Each hand will then be played independently.
    The player plays now with two different hands and he can ask for as many cards as he wants for each of his hands so long as he does not exceed 21.

    “STOP”
    The player can press the button “STOP” after having received his first two cards.
    This operation allows the player to quit the game and to recover all or half of his initial bet, depending on the state of play.
    The game will then start again as normal.

    “INSURANCE”
    The player has the choice to take an “INSURANCE” when the card face up of the dealer is an Ace. This means that the player may gamble one half of his initial bet in order to assure not to lose his entire bet if the dealer shows, besides his Ace, a hand with a 10 or a face card.
    If the hand of the dealer is an Ace and a 10, the player wins two and a half time his insurance bet (which means he would keep his initial bet and his insurance bet).
    If the card face down of the dealer has a value of less than 10, the player will lose his insurance bet and the game continue as normal. The winner will be the one who is the closest to 21.

    “PUSH or EQUALITY”

    There is equality when the dealer and the player have the same total amount in card values. In case of equality no one looses and the player takes has his initial bet returned.




    So what should I do now? Do I have any comeback at all? Are they allowed to introduce these restictions?

    On several occasions I was not given the opportunity to split/double and I lost money as a result - ultimately losing my entire deposit in a very quick period of time.

    Had I known that placing 50% of my balance would have resulted in this then I would have placed 49% of my balance instead.
     
  10. Jan 21, 2007
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Case

    They are talking crap.

    The second screenshot has a 25 bet and 26 credit, and allows doubling, yet other screenshots contradict this by not allowing doubling despite their being enough funds.
    They admit the "bug" is deliberate in that the software blocks the buttons if it thinks the bet cannot be made. if it gets it wrong where credit=proposed bet it's a bug. No good pretending it isn't my claiming it was intentional. No reputable outfit would even think of pulling this stunt.

    Again.

    WTF is the "D of Diamonds"!!!! There is no such friggin card in a standard ENGLISH deck, and the rest of the game is in English (only just, mind:D ).

    WTF (pointed out by other poster) is meant by "dealer stands on 16" - clearly the dealer is hitting on 16's which is against the rule on the table, therefore the software is CHEATING (even though "normal" BJ allows this, there again, "normal" BJ does not have a "D of Diamonds").

    With all these obvious shortcomings in the software, it seems unlikely to have been supplied by a reputable company to this casino, and is probably some "bespoke" software knocked up in someone's spare time, and likely to be bug ridden and possibly not properly random (either through incompetence or deliberate cheating, no way to tell really).
     
  12. Jan 22, 2007
  13. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin, unfor

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    Another WTF per screenshot,then rules.......Does BJ pay 1 1/2 to 1 aka 3 to 2. Cards cover all except to 1. Maybe this is my cultural ignorance.
     
  14. Jan 22, 2007
  15. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Another bug was reported in their software about 8 months ago by myself. It seems now that they didn't even fix that bug either.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/12576-whats-wrong-picture.html

    Re: Not having the split/double option if your balance isn't enough:

    What dumbass came up with that rule when they were programming the software? You would think they would program it to at least give you the option to deposit more money before the hand is played out, and not simply have the option to s/d unavailable.
     
  16. Jan 22, 2007
  17. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk


    Blimey - didn't spot that :eek:

    I never got a Blackjack so can't say what it actually pays but look at the blank table

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Jan 22, 2007
  19. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    The D is a Queen (Dame).
    This guys don't seem to have a clue. I nominate them for roguedom.
     
  20. Jan 22, 2007
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    BJ

    That is the oddest Blackjack game ever then!!

    Dealer standing on 16 but hitting to 17, Dames instead of Queens, Jack of Diamonds as 11. Perhaps it is to stop us using a strategy chart from the Wizard:D

    Given that this is a .co.uk casino - I am severely disappointed in their rudimentary grasp of the English language:mad:

    Perhaps we should have a contest, open a free play account and see who can discover the most software bugs:D
    Extra marks for bugs that work in the player's favour:D :D
     
  22. Jan 22, 2007
  23. Ferretktf

    Ferretktf Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dQ Manager
    Location:
    uk
    SUCCESS !!!!!!


    "We would want to inform you that your account has been credited of the amount of 200 GBP.

    In addition, as far as the rules for Black Jack are concerned, we assure you that your message has been transferred to our team of technicians who will make the necessary changes.

    Thank you for your confidence and for having chosen us."


    I think this final screenprint finally sealed it :)

    Is it possible to change the thread title to append "NOW RESOLVED" ??


    Now I have to be honourable and stick to my promise to gamble it in their casino - A grind for a little while on Low Stakes Baccarat seems appropriate ...
     
  24. Jan 23, 2007
  25. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England

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