1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  3. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Question Casino Winnings 'void' question

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casino2014man, May 1, 2015.

    May 1, 2015
  1. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Evening All

    Something I have been wondering for a while.

    You often see the stories where players winnings are 'voided' and their deposits are returned.

    This can be for a variety of reasons from bonus abuse, to stakes being too large and a whole host of reasons I have seen..

    Sometimes this is a LOT of money.

    What happens to the money that is voided, do the casino just keep this? Surely this affects game RTP?

    Sorry if the answer to this is obvious, I was just reading a complaints website and had to wonder :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. May 1, 2015
  3. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
  4. May 1, 2015
  5. IanO

    IanO Regular Human

    Occupation:
    Marketing and promotions
    Location:
    Ireland.
    RTP has nothing to do with withdrawals.

    In simplest terms, RTP is based on how much you win or lose on a particular game. Whether or not you go on to withdraw those funds would not affect that number.
     
  6. May 1, 2015
  7. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What I mean is, the rtp would state it has paid out x to this player, however the player doesn't get it because it is 'void'

    I just wondered what happens to this money
     
  8. May 1, 2015
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    It's still calculated in the RTP - whether the player gets it, the casino confiscates it or whatever, this is after the event. The RTP remains the same as it would have been had the player withdrawn it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. May 1, 2015
  11. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    On top of what has been said, I'm pretty sure the 'money' is only 'phantom money' until its sent to the payments team for sending to players withdrawal methods etc.

    It would simply be a case of accessing the players account the casino end and resetting their balance to £0 as If it never happened.

    The slot doesn't even factor really
     
  12. May 1, 2015
  13. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I think understand your point here, which some others seem to have missed.
    Say in a given month, the sum of all game wagers / all game payouts is 95% - a house edge of 5%.
    So if the total of all those wagers was say $100,000 - the casino's income from those bets would be $5,000.
    But if a player had won big then had say $10,000 voided, the casino would be making 3x as much!

    I'm not sure if my logic is right here or not, but on the face of it I think I might be correct.
    If so, the casino is making extra from this, but all players who stick to the T&Cs are not effected in any negative way.
    But what if some of the games are AWPs.... ?
    Oh dear - my brain is hurting now! :oops:

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  14. May 1, 2015
  15. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thats exactly what I have been trying to figure out :p
     
  16. May 2, 2015
  17. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I can see exactly where you coming from, Take into account that most of the machines will probably have millions go in to them weekly so unless its a major amount than it should not really affect the RTP much, But it does not really seem fair to other players, The only person that's gaining is the casino not having to pay out
     
  18. May 2, 2015
  19. Finn

    Finn Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Finland
    Voiding of winnings due to bonus violations doesn't affect RTP, just like winnings due to free spins, bonuses or free chips/no-deposit bonuses doesn't affect RTP.

    They affect casino's bottom line, but that isn't directly connected to RTP, since RTP doesn't determine withdrawals/deposits ratio.

    In theory, you could have a casino with 99% RTP or higher, where no one ever withdraws, because the games are really low variance and their players just choose to grind their deposits to bust.

    Some people have complained that they lost 100 deposits without any withdrawal. At least some of these people have too high cashout threshold compared to their bet size and slots they play, and they just keep grinding themselves to bust.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2015
  20. May 2, 2015
  21. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Even if a casino pocketed the money from confiscated winnings it does not effect the RTP at all. Someone was paid no matter if it was Mr Casino or Joe Bloggs. The payout will still be counted into the RTP no matter who gets it. And the casino can choose to "not" collect on the winnings. And the % of refused withdraws for legit casinos will be nominal. Makes no different even if a player wins 10k and dont collect its still part of the RTP just means the casino held the funds.
     
  22. May 2, 2015
  23. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    RTP is no way, shape or form related to withdrawals so paying or not paying the player doesn't have any effect on RTP.

    So if the question is "is the casino making more money when cancelling withdrawals?" then the answer is an obvious yes.
     
    4 people like this.
  24. May 2, 2015
  25. sigothx1

    sigothx1 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Civil servant
    Location:
    England
    What players have to realize is if theirs 10k in there account, its just a number until we process it, and pay from our bank to yours, so if we void a payment, we don't gain the money, we don't infact gain anything apart from your initial deposit, so if you deposited £10, went on an amazing run and won £20,000 but breached the terms, we void the 20k but were only £10 up on you.
     
  26. May 2, 2015
  27. eddiesdad

    eddiesdad Full Member

    Occupation:
    dole scum
    Location:
    the pub
    i may be overly simplistic but i always thought rtp was what you won/lost in a session,not what the casino paid out.
     
  28. May 3, 2015
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Yes, but you're still gaining the £20K because you have not had to pay it out!
    i.e. your bank is £20K better off than it would have been if you did pay it out.

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  30. May 4, 2015
  31. sigothx1

    sigothx1 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Civil servant
    Location:
    England
    depends on the way you look at it, if our bank balance was 100k before said player played, they deposited £10, our balance is now 100,010, player breaches terms and funds get voided, were still not 20k up, were £10 up, it just depends on how you look at it, were not gaining 20k, rather just not losing it.
     
  32. May 4, 2015
  33. Gaz237

    Gaz237 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    chelmsford UK
    Reading it wrong

    Your still looking at it from the wrong angle. KK has it right.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. May 4, 2015
  35. dreamguardian1

    dreamguardian1 Senior Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Grad Student, Peer Counselor, Org. Ambassador/Pres
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    No matter what the casino's always have the better average or wins versus the players because thousands are put into one slot every day. Even if wins are voided the casino has no losses because they didnt pay the person what they won, legitmately or not. Many of the rogue casinos for example if a player legitimately wins big many of them will look for reasons to not pay the player so that they do not lose that money.
     
  36. May 4, 2015
  37. dreamguardian1

    dreamguardian1 Senior Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Grad Student, Peer Counselor, Org. Ambassador/Pres
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Not entirely true if its a rogue casino or one that fails to honor wins. The casino does keep the money the player allegedly won based upon all the other deposits from people who lost which is the casinos money. The Casino owner is paying winning wins with other players money who lost, if a win is void you are not paying that player you are keeping the money other players deposited. It all depends on how you look at it.
     
  38. May 4, 2015
  39. AndyB-MrGreen

    AndyB-MrGreen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino manager
    Location:
    Malta
    There would only be a genuine profit "gain" if a casino refused to pay out on a pooled jackpot win for some reason and yet took the money from the provider. Surely nobody would do that! :eek2:

    I see what Sigothx1 is saying, if you break terms and you're not paid out because of that the casino would still have the "winnings" but because they were won outside of the terms they were never really "winnings" anyway technically and it just stays in the pot, there's no additional profit. Unless the casino was being completely unfair and you hadn't actually broke any terms, in which case it's time to mail Max.
     

Share This Page