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Bonus Complaint Casino Tropez confiscated winnings totalling 38k.

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Riaandw, May 27, 2013.

    May 27, 2013
  1. Riaandw

    Riaandw Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    South Africa
    A few weeks ago I found casino Tropez online and proceeded to open a mobile account with them from my cell. I made 3 separate deposits, first 5k which I lost then 3k which I also lost and another deposit of 2k. I then proceeded to play this on roulette, blackjack and slots up to 40k which I then decided to withdrawal. I spoke to a representative who congratulated me on my winnings and said that it would take about a week for the withdrawal to complete. After waiting a week contacted them again and we're asked to wait a bit longer. Then a few days later I log into my account to find my balance on 2k and my access to my transactions removed. After contacting them to find out what going on, they stated that I had not completed my wagering requirements. I've requested they simply decline my withdrawal and return my winning for completion of said wagering requirements which they are not being helpful with. Also requested to be contacted by an superior that has not happened.

    Please, I need some advice on how to proceed with this matter. Any help appreciated...
     
  2. May 27, 2013
  3. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Stealing your winnings because you tried to cashout before the wagering requirement was completed is absolutely rogue. Unfortunately, Tropez is on the no-can-do list here so Casinomeister won't be able to help you much.

    Out of curiosity, did you play all your money down to $0 after each deposit to clear the WR from the previous sessions?
     
  4. May 27, 2013
  5. Riaandw

    Riaandw Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi and thanks for replying.

    Also the way I understand it, if I have not completed their wagering requirements my withdrawal should simply be denied and I should then be informed to complete before I'll be able to withdrawal. They are basically using their bonus to confiscate money? I'm guessing that they make very little payouts in this fashion.

    I played my account to zero every time before depositing again.

    Why are they on the no can do list. Should they not be marked as rouge if the practices continue and they don't care to resolve?
     
  6. May 27, 2013
  7. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    So you didn't read the terms and conditions?

    If you did, you would have known the following:

    It's a nasty term, but you agreed to it by creating your account and accepting a bonus.

    If you don't want to lose your winnings in future, read the terms and conditions and abide by them. It's really not rocket science.

    The fact that the term is awful is a seperate argument. Either members think that you should be bound by the terms you accept, or they don't. Picking and choosing which terms you like and thinking that these are the only ones you should be bound by is for children. Adults accept responsibility for their own actions.

    You might also want to stick to the accredited casino list in future, or at least do your due diligence beforehand.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. May 27, 2013
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    When a casino refuses to discuss cases then we have very little insight into what actually happened. Hearsay is not enough to blacklist someone so it's generally a matter of not having enough proof on hand to warrant a full Rogue listing. That said, each case is a judgement call, at least that's what I see from the PAB side of things. Bryan may have other thoughts to add to this when he returns.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. May 27, 2013
  11. catapultaudio

    catapultaudio Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer Programmer
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    @Nifty29, damn the guys lost 40k, could you be any more of a heartless asshole? of course, you are completely correct, but what an attitude pal damn ... ?!

    is the 'ROGUE DEFENDER FROM DAY ONE' your own choice of title too?
     
  12. May 27, 2013
  13. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    hey hey common thats the way nifty is he likes to speak facts , its nothing personal take it with a pinch of salt , hes a clued up member whos been around for a while , hes a good member no need for the asshole bit ! its his way of pointing things out when they signed up , had they read the terms properly we wouldnt have this here now would we)
     
    3 people like this.
  14. May 27, 2013
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    No, the 'rogue defender' is an ironic tag he added after being accused irrationally in another topic/thread. Like my 'foil hat' avatar. You gotta have a sense of humour on here sometimes.

    It's harsh, but true. He does say the condition/term stinks, but it's there. The fact it's there tells you all you need to know about this bunch of shysters. Any decent casino would either inform you honestly after the attempted withdrawal that you have had the funds returned to your account until you meet WR, or their withdrawal portal would tell you before you attempted the withdrawal that you still had bonus funds outstanding. No this lot. They are sneaky and disingenuous. But they do list this disgusting term in their T&C's. That's all he says.

    And swearing at members will soon have you moderated or more likely banned. Reasoned argument always trumps insults.
     
    5 people like this.
  16. May 27, 2013
  17. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Oh my god! Again the same issue at a Playtech casino - so what exactly happened here? Was the OP really properly warned that he was to lose all his winnings when he would proceed to making a withdrawal? It seems so difficult to believe that a player depositing 10K in total would not have checked his WR (assuming that it was clearly mentioned in the cashier section?) - or with Live Chat - and yes Nifty - read the terms. Then again, we had already established in the Casino Plex thread that such a term is clearly rogue.

    So, Casino Tropez is on the no-can-do list, a huge red flag. The OP obviously did not check this site (or knew of its existence). Is it still worth submitting a PAB? I hope so.
     
  18. May 27, 2013
  19. catapultaudio

    catapultaudio Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer Programmer
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Now hang on, I'm not getting personal here - quite the opposite. I'm sure Nifty is an okay guy, and not an asshole, but even good people can act like sh*ts towards others at times (myself included!)

    Read what he wrote again - it's just a bunch of snide comments, slating a relative newbie in a patronising/condescending way for making a mistake that has cost him an AWFUL lot of money. He's not "just saying its in the T&Cs" - he could say that in a much more pleasant way. If his intention was not to belittle the OP then he could have fooled me, I found it distasteful so I said so.

    If that's your idea of 'humour' then fair enough, but it isn't mine.

    I do apologise for any offence caused and hope my intentions are clear.
     
    7 people like this.
  20. May 28, 2013
  21. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    His intention was clearly to belittle the OP and soapbox for awhile on a topic where few rational people share his views.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. May 28, 2013
  23. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    I'm not nifty's big defender, but if this upsets you, you need thicker skin - it might be blunt, but it's hardly a personal attack - after all, Nifty's blunt across the board, so it's hardly going after the op
     
    2 people like this.
  24. May 28, 2013
  25. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    This is the casino Plex issue all over again. The OP made a perfectly reasonable request to have the balance reinstated to complete wagering. Damn these ridiculous terms about not attempting a cashout before wagering is complete. It has nothing to do with the incompletion of wagering requirements as its simply a case of telling the player of this and let the remaining wagering run its course. If we are unhappy about the paltry weekly instalment payments of some RTGs though they are written in the terms this is even worse as its a clear seizure of winnings. At least for the former one will get paid ultimately. If one condones one set of terms but insists of adherence of terms for the other its 'double standard' IMVHO.
     
    5 people like this.
  26. May 28, 2013
  27. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I agree Chu....the casino SHOULD reinstate the OPs balance and let him finish. A decent operator would do this all day long.

    Unfortunately, this one, along with CasinoPlex, is not a decent operator and they have crap terms that are designed to take advantage of careless and sometime ignorant players.

    The OP did not read the terms and conditions in any form it seems. Otherwise, they would have been tracking their wagering manually OR using the playtech in-house WR tracking in the cashier.

    The irresponsibility of the OP is what caused him to lose $40k. If he had contacted support first, OR checked his wagering in the cashier, OR actually read the terms, OR not accepted the bonus (a popup confirmation by player is required at PT casinos), OR checked the accredited list here, this thread would not exist and the OP would most likely be celebrating a nice profit in his bank.

    I have no sympathy for people who just blindly go about throwing their money around without doing any kind of due diligence at all, and who flatly refuse to employ any vestige of common sense. I have absolute sympathy for those who do the right thing and use their brains and get ripped off regardless, and my posting history here will support that completely.

    My question to others here is this:

    If the last bonus he took had a maximum cashout term of 10xDeposit, which is totally crap IMO and is possible but not common, and he didn't read the bonus terms etc, and then posted a complaint here saying he had been "ripped off by $20k", would you support the complaint?

    Both scenarios just about everything in common:

    1. Crap term
    2. Player didn't read terms
    3. Player agreed to terms
    4. Player loses winnings.

    The ONLY difference is the amount involved i.e. he only loses half his winnings instead of all.

    Now, I've seen hundreds of scenarios like the second one with max cashouts and nearly everybody, including people here in this thread, have said "Well the terms say max cashout of 10x so that's what you're stuck with. The term sucks but you didn't have to take the bonus....you did, so you're bound by it. Sorry". However, in this and the casinoplex situation, some have said that in the first scenario the terms should not apply.....and I genuinely cannot understand that logic. If someone can enlighten me, I would be grateful and perhaps I will understand better.

    I also have to wonder that if the OP deposited $20 and cashed out $200 and lost his winnings, there would be the same number of members getting fired up, or even bothering to read it at all. I mean, it's only $200 right? However, it is the same as a $2000 deposit with winnings of $40000....in fact, to the OP, a $2000 deposit might mean the same as a $20 deposit to someone else (remember he did deposit $5k and $3k previously). So, the only thing I can think of is that it is all about the amount for those who are slating the casino and calling them rogue i.e. how much you deposit and win dictates whether you should be held to a term or not, so high rollers are exempted from the rules that low rollers have to follow. Now THAT is totally unfair, no?

    The casino should be rogue/not recommended for HAVING the term in the first place....NOT for enforcing it upon players who agreed to be bound by it. The two aspects are very different, and members who say that casinos should be rogued for enforcing their own terms should consider not playing anywhere any more because all casinos do it.
     
    5 people like this.
  28. May 28, 2013
  29. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    FTR.

    I did not personally insult the OP nor anyone else for that matter.

    If a member feels that I did, they should quit kvetching here and derailing the discussion and report my post/s to the moderators.
     
    2 people like this.
  30. May 28, 2013
  31. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    They're not related are they? Casino Plex and Tropez?
     
  32. May 28, 2013
  33. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    No.
    Casino Plex = E-Play 24 Limited group
    Casino Tropez = Hardway Investments group
     
    4 people like this.
  34. May 28, 2013
  35. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Honestly, I rather doubt it. This group (Hardway) is notoriously unresponsive and uncooperative so chances are they would be so here too and that would prove nothing.

    In the off chance that they did respond all they'd say is "player violated the Terms" which is apparently obvious to everyone, including the OP. Sure, the Term applicable here is shite, again there is pretty much general agreement on that, but that's why one reads the Terms and avoids casinos that have shite Terms, no? Which is pretty much what Nifty said in the first place.
     
    6 people like this.
  36. May 29, 2013
  37. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    On the OP's complaint I do understand that there is nothing Max can do about it. Ye, if this sort of roguish action remains unchecked it may become contagious within the industry. Other operators will follow suit and insert some ridiculous terms like you can only initiate a w/d on the 1st of any month and if you did so on any other days your balance is confiscated.
    These are the terms and the casinos wont use them to their advantage unless there is a sizable cashout. I urge Bryan to raise this issue with the operators when he has an opportunity to meet them in any conference in future. My take is any terms and conditions must be relevant to the bonus, cashout or whatever its about. The industry is already unregulated and we must not allow them to do anything they please.
     
    3 people like this.
  38. May 29, 2013
  39. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    In principle Chu I agree with you on pretty much all counts. In practice though things are not so simple. For instance, Bryan/CM is not in a position of dictating to casinos what their Terms should be. Of course if they want to be Accredited then yes, certain things need to be in the Terms, or not as the case may be, but that is more of a "these are the conditions under which we can work together" situation than anything else.

    There's also our Warnings system which we can use to alert players to specific situations that they really need to be aware of, draconian Terms, etc.

    But I feel the responsibility ultimately lies with the player because they have the one thing that drives the whole process: their money. If players avoid casinos that have shite Terms, behave badly, whatever, then those casinos start to wither up and sooner or later they realise it's in their own interests to change their ways.

    But the unfortunate truth is that many many many players are not discriminating about where they spend their gambling dollar. They go for attractive bonuses or "sexy" games or just follow some casino advert they saw while they were getting their latest tattoo or whatever. In other words they give their money away too easily and that allows a lot of pretty grey casino practices to take root and flourish. In fact I'd say it's so bad that players have created a lot of the monsters they now have to deal with: years and years of deposits at casinos that are known to be suspect has turned those same casinos into very powerful companies, simply because of all the money that has been dumped into their laps. All those billions in the industry come from one place: players. Whatever we have on the scene today is in large part thanks to them and them alone. Nobody else is paying to make this happen so what does happen is ultimately their shared responsibility.

    As I see it we, other sites like us, licensing agencies, even governments can work our asses off trying to help the players and make online gambling better for them but at the end of the day the players get the gambling services they deserve because they're the ones backrolling the entire scene. I know I'm pissing into the wind on this one but what can I say, I've been in the business as long as anyone and those are just some basic truths that have been there since Day One and haven't changed since. IMHO.
     
    6 people like this.

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