Casino Software coding ideas

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
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jstrike: and I started writing code
jstrike, since you have been writing code in depth whereas I just toyed with writing a few inncocent lines that worked for my pleasure...would you kindly explain if you can, how hard it is for any casino to change a line or insert a line of code in the back end to "tweak" the games to benefit themselves in somewhat of a way to increase their take on the amount of money but not too significantly but enough to barely get noticed by the players? I do not know if I am making sense...or asking the question correctly...but hopefully you will understand what I am trying to get at and ask.

As for you making a buck or two off your sweat and tears..go for it....you deserve anything you can get IMO..and I wish you the best to do so!

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jstrike

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Alright. Thanks, Stacey.
Look. I got upset because the thing you accused me of planning here is so evil to me, that I couldn't believe what I was reading. My mom dated this guy once who did internet "marketing" of weird chinese herbs. Right? That's what I think of when someone says a "quick buck". Well, I mean he delivered these stupid herbs to people, but they didn't do shit. At least he delivered them. What you accused me of is even worse than that.

The truth is, you sound like exactly the kind of person who I would want at the site, because you've got a strong sense of fairness. Actually it sounds like your sense of honor is what's made you believe I might be doing something dishonorable. I don't know how I got on the wrong side of that, but I don't want to be. I get where you're coming from. So you, as toughest critic to date, are definitely welcome to the site when it opens...and you won't be one in a million. You'll be one in five hundred at the most, because I'm starting this almost like a private club.
 

jstrike

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Europe
jstrike, since you have been writing code in depth whereas I just toyed with writing a few inncocent lines that worked for my pleasure...would you kindly explain if you can, how hard it is for any casino to change a line or insert a line of code in the back end to "tweak" the games to benefit themselves in somewhat of a way to increase their take on the amount of money but not too significantly but enough to barely get noticed by the players?

silcnlayc...it's way too easy. Without getting too technical, and it's different for different games, but the easiest way is to draw the next card or spin or roll at random, and then throw that one out and draw again a random 25% to 75% of the time if the first one would lower the odds for the house. You don't even have to care what the second one is. Just by doing that once, you can keep the perception of randomness, but you majorly increase the house's EV. That's one of the reasons my software has only multiplayer tables for roulette, craps, blackjack, tcp, etc., and the full shoe for every blackjack 6-deck is going to be published afterwards.

That being said, I don't think a lot of houses do it that way, because that kind of thing would definitely be caught in an audit. And other ways to tamper with code, like artificial intelligences some people suggest, are pretty heavy and would definitely stand out. But can it be done...yeah. Easily. The only cure I can see is letting everybody sit in and watch games whenever they want, publishing shoes, publishing card distributions, making all that randomness totally available so that anybody out there can analyze it themselves.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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jstrike:silcnlayc...it's way too easy. Without getting too technical, and it's different for different games, but the easiest way is to draw the next card or spin or roll at random, and then throw that one out and draw again a random 25% to 75% of the time if the first one would lower the odds for the house. You don't even have to care what the second one is. Just by doing that once, you can keep the perception of randomness,
Thank you for confirming what I have said many times over..IT IS EASY was the point I tried to get across..

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jstrike

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Thank you for confirming what I have said many times over..IT IS EASY was the point I tried to get across..

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It's easy for sure if you don't give a damn about your reputation. It gets harder if you go in for licensing and auditing, but like in the other thread, it's still possible... having said that, I think if enough players demand transparency, they can get it, because running a not-rigged casino is still a huge money making business. Only short sighted greed makes some of the rogue outfits do stuff like this, and I'd bet most of the established ones wouldn't do this kind of thing in a million years. I don't know why they'd risk a huge business for a little edge. Then again, I'm either naive or evil around here, so wtf do I know, heh =)
 

GrandMaster

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UK
silcnlayc...it's way too easy. Without getting too technical, and it's different for different games, but the easiest way is to draw the next card or spin or roll at random, and then throw that one out and draw again a random 25% to 75% of the time if the first one would lower the odds for the house. You don't even have to care what the second one is. Just by doing that once, you can keep the perception of randomness, but you majorly increase the house's EV.
This is called dealing seconds. Some casinos in Reno were caught doing it in 70s if I remember correctly. The results at
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were also consistent with dealing seconds. If you do it with sufficient frequency to make the game noticeably more profitable fo the casino, then the distribution of cards or whatever will also deviate from the expected and can be detected by statistical tests.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
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This is called dealing seconds. Some casinos in Reno were caught doing it in 70s if I remember correctly. The results at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
were also consistent with dealing seconds. If you do it with sufficient frequency to make the game noticeably more profitable fo the casino, then the distribution of cards or whatever will also deviate from the expected and can be detected by statistical tests.

well i hope there running these tests ,and can tell if a cheat alters for a time then corrects it for the auditor
respectfully R C
 

jstrike

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Yeah, and the trouble is you could screw with it before and after an audit if you're not in a jurisdiction where they're watching real carefully. But there are some simple checks a player can do, like counting suited runs at the start of new decks. I think the real answer is, casinos should publish all hand histories and shoes afterwards for open analysis by anyone (except for with poker, that is). Then you can request all the blackjack hands you played and compare them to the public info on the shoes the cards came out of and do your own math and decide if it was random or if it wasn't. You put that together with multiplayer blackjack tables, and players can get together and compare notes, and you've got a system where the casino can't cheat.
 

davey

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Coffs Harbour Australia
Hang in there mate

O'h boy, the knockers have suddenly came out in force JStrike. I recon you've done a great job only reaching for the bottle on one occasion.
Someone crucified me here when I simply went over her head to get an opinion on a Casino off the Meister. I stupidly lost my cool and went ballistic!

You have handled the situation much better than I would have, that's for sure.
I'm pushing 60 and there's one thing I've learned over the years. There is a minority of the population who are do-ers, and there is the majority who achieve very little but are always 'going to do something..... tomorrow!!'.
To endeavor to feel like a winner these under-achievers have only one thing in their arsenal that makes them feel important.......they attack the do-ers.

Being a do-er is however risk averse. Walt Disney was a great example of a do-er. He went broke on a number of occassions but his passionate belief in his product enabled him to hang in there and not only make millions but become a legend worldwide. If he had listened to the knockers none of us would have heard of Mickey Mouse.

Stay strong mate and if it means anything.... I recon you're on a winner!
Davey
 

ibutlercasino

Banned User - iGaming rep using shill account to d
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Location
Malta
Yeah, and the trouble is you could screw with it before and after an audit if you're not in a jurisdiction where they're watching real carefully. But there are some simple checks a player can do, like counting suited runs at the start of new decks. I think the real answer is, casinos should publish all hand histories and shoes afterwards for open analysis by anyone (except for with poker, that is). Then you can request all the blackjack hands you played and compare them to the public info on the shoes the cards came out of and do your own math and decide if it was random or if it wasn't. You put that together with multiplayer blackjack tables, and players can get together and compare notes, and you've got a system where the casino can't cheat.

To second on this:

In Malta, Gibraltar and Alderney, if you want access to the game server you need written permission, documentation of what you did(this is checked) and if you remove anything it stays with them for testing for a month or so before you get it. It does not pay for you to be dishonest.
 

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