Casino Reps Please Respond Here

[Eliot Jacobson]

No way but you have been sucessful in the past in having my posts removed. You are in the States and if I have damaged you, you can attempt to prove it.

Nash,

You have the opportunity to have a conversation with me. Finally, after several years, I am here for you, willing to answer you directly, and in public.

If you have questions about the audit, it's mathematics, the tests that were conducted, or the methodology for the final conclusions, I will do my best to answer those questions. Others may find a lot of benefit by going through the process.

In the past, huge issues with casinos have been brought to light by considering statistics in a public forum. The Absolute Poker issue would have never been discovered, let alone resolved, were it not for the hard work over at two-plus-two. The log files for your play are still at hand. Perhaps you should seek a public remedy if you believe 3 Dice did not offer you a fair game at blackjack. I believe they did.

If you want to have this conversation, I am willing, but the tone must be civil. If you want a fight, it's going to be one-way.

Kind regards,

Eliot

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Greetings,

How can I help here?

I did change my opinion on the matter of 3 Dice Blackjack from an initial assessment, but this was due to an error in my procedures. My original opinion was that their game required further auditing (and they did eventually get that audit). My later opinion was that the game was fair as-is. I believe to this day that their game was fair at the time.I found no problems whatsoever with Three Dice blackjack after reconsidering my audit. Initially Nash sent payment for this work. After I determined my errors, I returned his fee.

Your timeline per se of the above mentioned all occured give or take a day during the second week of Dec. 2007 with the exception of the bolded (in blue) which is not clear as stated. If that bolded blue statement above should be included as part of the same time interval you clearly reference above then it is clear that you should have mentioned (as you have previously posted), this determination you mention is the 180 you pulled by just reversing course without any basis at that time that neither I nor 3DICE could have known your reason why. Later you would reveal you chose to bail for your own reasons as maybe you could not deal with my need for the truth and with the smack down of pressure from 3D. Otherwise the blue bolded statement is not applicable to the second week in Dec. 2007.

Nash and I had several long conversations in the fall of 2007 about this, and I thought he understood my situation. I lost both parents in 2007 and was in bad shape in many ways. My work was sloppy and I apologized to him personally and on this board.

This all occurred in early January 2008!!

I corrected my work and sent the corrections to him. He accepted them gracefully at the time, and I thought we had an understanding on the matter.

If you are referring to early January 2008 then it is a fair statement.

It appears that is not the case.

That is correct after your second 180 and final SOF (the 5th or 6th) fully published at 3 Dice in early February 2008 or so. Perhaps you should check your long prior PM(s) to me whereby you pleaded with and begged me for another chance to make this last audit right as you stated the ethics and terms (not me) you would follow. Enough said!!

I am not sure what else to say on the matter. I thought it was long gone. Understanding that certain matters must be kept confidential.

There was no confidentiality agreement or any other type of restrictive agreement(s). I hired and paid you in full. You never mentioned confidentiality as I recollect until after you over-nighted my payment back to me, then you started telling me what I could and could not do, not that I ever asked. And that is not all you did!

--Eliot

Screw transparency as if I can not support it.......So let it be how you and whomever wants it to be or proclaims it is. Just don't inhale.......FINIS!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash,
Perhaps you should seek a public remedy if you believe 3 Dice did not offer you a fair game at blackjack. I believe they did.

LOL , remedy?

Obviously I hired you to determine if 3D's BJ was fair as I had my doubts to fairness (which you also had your own doubts with caveats after visiting their site before I officially hired you). My doubts were no secret. I do not believe I have ever made the direct conclusion that 3D's BJ was unfair as a fact. I could have implied as an opinion.

How would I have known based on your's and 3D's actions if their BJ was fair or unfair?

Not knowing and left with even more doubt based on the entire audit fiasco, I have never played another hand of 3D's BJ again (since Dec. 2007).

Touche!!

 

[funeral979]

These last series of posts are a bit cloudy and quite troubling to me.

Obviously I am not privy to probably a majority of what is being alluded to here....but I doubt I will play another hand of blackjack at 3Dice until the rest of this (whatever it is) plays out.

What IS clear to me is that there are certain things about 3Dice blackjack that certain people want kept secret.

 

[jod5413]

Sometimes in life, there are things we have no control over. We can talk and talk until we are blue in the face.

We can either accept things as they are, or we can keep trying to find out the real truths.

I do not believe there is anything to be gained by continuing to "go down this road".

Nash, I really am sorry that this ended up the way it did for you. Without knowing all the bits and pieces, I have to say, some of us will understand and believe you, others not so much.

You have more than made your point, Nash. Please let it go. Nothing can be gained by raking Elliot over the coals, or making not so subtle "hints" that things weren't as they seemed.

JMO

(Your favorite frenenemy)

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Sometimes in life, there are things we have no control over. We can talk and talk until we are blue in the face.

We can either accept things as they are, or we can keep trying to find out the real truths.

I do not believe there is anything to be gained by continuing to "go down this road".

Nash, I really am sorry that this ended up the way it did for you. Without knowing all the bits and pieces, I have to say, some of us will understand and believe you, others not so much.

You have more than made your point, Nash. Please let it go. Nothing can be gained by raking Elliot over the coals, or making not so subtle "hints" that things weren't as they seemed.

JMO

(Your favorite frenenemy)

Well said and honestly the bolded had already occurred to me as today's posts unfolded!

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Nash,

do yourself a favor and chill out a little bit. Life is too short to get so riled up over all of this. I think Elliot explained perfectly well what went down during his audit. There is no need to start hammering away at what you feel was wrong with the entire thing. A lot of what you posted could have been kept to a private correspondence. Why get so bent out of shape?

 

[4 of a kind]

Hi Nash,

do yourself a favor and chill out a little bit. Life is too short to get so riled up over all of this. I think Elliot explained perfectly well what went down during his audit. There is no need to start hammering away at what you feel was wrong with the entire thing. A lot of what you posted could have been kept to a private correspondence. Why get so bent out of shape?

People are getting so bent out of shape because of threads like this. After 2,613 views (at this point) 41 days passing and 82 posts not one rep. stepped forward and confirmed one way or the other how Video Poker or Black Jack games are factually being dealt to us suckers.

Sixteen active reps. were pm'ed and asked to respond here. Just two did, who thought they could derail the question with bullshit. Unfortunately at this stage of online gaming's existence the bullshit don't work anymore for most.

Whatever is going on here with Nash, Enzo, and Elliot for some reason the actual details aren't being exposed.

Whenever transparency is being challenged with online casinos, for some reason the topic always turns sneaky, squirmy, snakey, stinky, and private.

Thanks to this site many players are getting educated with whats going on. Does anyone else here recognize when it comes to online casino discussions, the threads have become 99% about players being robbed in one form or another.

This issue with Video Poker and Black Jack was never settled in this thread. All the people that stay clear of threads like this one, were relived this thread completed the fade away along with all the other important unanswered threads in the past that are long gone, and are probably reading this bump in disgust.

I'm rather impressed I haven't been rid of by now consistently trying to stand up for what's right and fair.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Hi Nash,
I think Elliot explained perfectly well what went down during his audit.

Hello Bryan,
Really?,, like you would know what went down during the audit with Eliot??.... May sombody have mercy on your souls and Enzo's too.

 

[Nifty29]

After reading this thread and the latest replies, an image has formed in my mind of a brain-damaged greyhound with a rubber boot.

Nash - have you considered finding another auditor? Surely Eliot isnt the only person capable in the world? Actually, I believe as you do that online BJ is not random and should never be considered to be the same as 'real world' BJ. In fact, in many instances I believe it is programmed very much like (or even as) a slot.

I sometimes have a few hands at my local B&M Casino for enjoyment, but never spend a dime these days online (at BJ). The kind of results I see online as opposed to 'real' BJ are too far apart to be considered 'the same'.

BTW Im not talking about 3Dice specifically but all online casinos.

 

[just play]

People are getting so bent out of shape because of threads like this. After 2,613 views (at this point) 41 days passing and 82 posts not one rep. stepped forward and confirmed one way or the other how Video Poker or Black Jack games are factually being dealt to us suckers.

What are they going to say? Yup, BJ/VP are fixed?

Sixteen active reps. were pm'ed and asked to respond here. Just two did, who thought they could derail the question with bullshit. Unfortunately at this stage of online gaming's existence the bullshit don't work anymore for most.

I have to disagree here...I think the bullshit works just fine for most.

Whatever is going on here with Nash, Enzo, and Elliot for some reason the actual details aren't being exposed.

Very strange, wonder what's missing?

Whenever transparency is being challenged with online casinos, for some reason the topic always turns sneaky, squirmy, snakey, stinky, and private.

Again...what does one say? It's all fixed?

Thanks to this site many players are getting educated with whats going on. Does anyone else here recognize when it comes to online casino discussions, the threads have become 99% about players being robbed in one form or another.

Yes sir.

This issue with Video Poker and Black Jack was never settled in this thread. All the people that stay clear of threads like this one, were relived this thread completed the fade away along with all the other important unanswered threads in the past that are long gone, and are probably reading this bump in disgust.

I'm rather impressed I haven't been rid of by now consistently trying to stand up for what's right and fair.

Life is too short to get so riled up over all of this

I'm sorry to disagree Casinomeister, but if Nash thinks something isn't on the up and up, he should get riled up, he is spending his money just like the rest of us. Like 4OAK, said important questions go unanswered...wonder why?

Do I believe online gambling is fixed...yes I do...and no one will ever change my mind, and I just cashed out a nice sum, but I STILL think online gambling is fixed. This thread is just one of the reasons I feel the way I do.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Nash - have you considered finding another auditor?

I now do my own audits. They are usually incorrect though but I have no problems with "hindsight bias". It's that freaking
"frontsight bias" I suck at.

Seriously, I trust no auditor with good reason. Think about it as in who really keeps buttering their bread, not player's. Actually an auditor in the Absolute Poker thread says it better than I (will post t-row). Thus, I actually started doing and/or did my own BJ audits. At first I needed a some Excel set-up and how to help which the forum and a few forum members helped. Then I set up all test/audit templates. The software platforms do not cooperate by formatting the data as requested and thus the grunt work.

 

[3Dice]

Hi Guys,

I have always chosen to stay out of this discussion as much as possible - I have very few nice things to say about other parties involved and always saw little use in beating a dead horse.

When Nash in 2007 asked for csv versions of his logs to be audited I thought it was rather funny. His lifetime blackjack stats showed 98.66% RTP, with a net loss of 164 bet units on +-12000 games. (an SD of +-0.9, odds between 1 in 5 and 1 in 6).

Big was my surprise when I was sent the audit report - that first version, for those not aware, did not conclude anything was wrong - but it expressed Nash's run as 'extremely bad luck' (excuse me ?? 1 in 5 !!), a quick review immediately showed a number (not just 1) of counting mistakes, all producing a negative bias, and a series of conclusions based on exactly those numbers. The final conclusion, where Mr Jacobson expressed that he felt a full audit, with the side note that he could be the one to do that, would be a good idea.

Obviously, 3Dice did not agree that a flawed report would be considered final (what would you do ??) - and so after pointing out the counting mistakes I was confident the situation would be rectified swiftly.

When the second 'final' version simply had the counting numbers changed - but left all the conclusions the same that ticked me off more than a little bit. After ample discussions (Nash : the leverage I used is called MATH !!!!!) I feel Dr Jacobson dropped the ball even more by stripping most all conclusions from his SOF - and weakening his full audit statement to one of 'general advice' .. i.e. that he felt everyone should have a full audit done.

At least that report did not contain any obvious mistakes anymore - it was still a long shot from what it should have been. That is a clear statement that Nash's run in no form shape or way was anything but expected and that none of the numbers found even remotely suggested anything could be wrong.

(i.e. the same conclusion i-tech labs reached when later on independently verifying the 3Dice software, 3Dice card shuffling, and its application in the games).

By that time Nash had become so paranoid - I don't blame him for that - he didn't understand any of the math - and must have been more than a bit confused with the out-of-line and ever changing comments of Dr Jacobson. He has since decided I'm the incarnation of evil. We're talking the full deal of conspiracy theories here including myself, CM and Dr Jacobson playing crucial roles in some type of I don't know what.

Since that point this has turned into a true Don Quichotte scenario - why don't you make sense for once Nash and post the csv's of your play out in the open - I'm sure there's plenty people on here who can perform the simple math involved (a chi squared is no rocket science). There's no hard feelings on my side Nash, even tho you've done your best to damage me and 3Dice as much as possible - I can't blame you since its simply to obvious you don't understand.

Post the data - set yourself free.

Kindest Regards

Enzo.


p.s. 4 oak, every casino on the accredited list here is third party verified, all of those casino's offer blackjack and VP games purely based on naturally shuffled deck(s) of cards. All those reports are published and free for you to download and look into. It would be _tremendously_ easy to find evidence of anything otherwise. For example in a multihand VP scenario (say 50 hands) - it would only take a couple of hundred games at most to be able to calculate a reliable stat on the division of cards.

There's a number of forums out there (I suggest aka23's beatingbonuses.com), that have ample tools and skilled math people available to help you out - time spent much more useful than through making vague suggestions and allegations without even the slightest hint of proof.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Hi Guys,

I have always chosen to stay out of this discussion as much as possible - I have very few nice things to say about other parties involved and always saw little use in beating a dead horse.

When Nash in 2007 asked for csv versions of his logs to be audited I thought it was rather funny. His lifetime blackjack stats showed 98.66% RTP, with a net loss of 164 bet units on +-12000 games. (an SD of +-0.9, odds between 1 in 5 and 1 in 6).

Big was my surprise when I was sent the audit report - that first version, for those not aware, did not conclude anything was wrong - but it expressed Nash's run as 'extremely bad luck' (excuse me ?? 1 in 5 !!), a quick review immediately showed a number (not just 1) of counting mistakes, all producing a negative bias, and a series of conclusions based on exactly those numbers. The final conclusion, where Mr Jacobson expressed that he felt a full audit, with the side note that he could be the one to do that, would be a good idea.

Obviously, 3Dice did not agree that a flawed report would be considered final (what would you do ??) - and so after pointing out the counting mistakes I was confident the situation would be rectified swiftly.

When the second 'final' version simply had the counting numbers changed - but left all the conclusions the same that ticked me off more than a little bit. After ample discussions (Nash : the leverage I used is called MATH !!!!!) I feel Dr Jacobson dropped the ball even more by stripping most all conclusions from his SOF - and weakening his full audit statement to one of 'general advice' .. i.e. that he felt everyone should have a full audit done.

At least that report did not contain any obvious mistakes anymore - it was still a long shot from what it should have been. That is a clear statement that Nash's run in no form shape or way was anything but expected and that none of the numbers found even remotely suggested anything could be wrong.

(i.e. the same conclusion i-tech labs reached when later on independently verifying the 3Dice software, 3Dice card shuffling, and its application in the games).

By that time Nash had become so paranoid - I don't blame him for that - he didn't understand any of the math - and must have been more than a bit confused with the out-of-line and ever changing comments of Dr Jacobson. He has since decided I'm the incarnation of evil. We're talking the full deal of conspiracy theories here including myself, CM and Dr Jacobson playing crucial roles in some type of I don't know what.

Since that point this has turned into a true Don Quichotte scenario - why don't you make sense for once Nash and post the csv's of your play out in the open - I'm sure there's plenty people on here who can perform the simple math involved (a chi squared is no rocket science). There's no hard feelings on my side Nash, even tho you've done your best to damage me and 3Dice as much as possible - I can't blame you since its simply to obvious you don't understand.

Post the data - set yourself free.

Kindest Regards

Enzo.


p.s. 4 oak, every casino on the accredited list here is third party verified, all of those casino's offer blackjack and VP games purely based on naturally shuffled deck(s) of cards. All those reports are published and free for you to download and look into. It would be _tremendously_ easy to find evidence of anything otherwise. For example in a multihand VP scenario (say 50 hands) - it would only take a couple of hundred games at most to be able to calculate a reliable stat on the division of cards.

There's a number of forums out there (I suggest aka23's beatingbonuses.com), that have ample tools and skilled math people available to help you out - time spent much more useful than through making vague suggestions and allegations without even the slightest hint of proof.

LOL on the stretch!.......I may post the original 600 +/- hands that you originally sent as my entire set of hand histories from memory as a text or html file despite the very clear instructions you ignored on what and how (XLS) to send the data, and then repeated and then repeated, hummm for the math guy!!.........Why would I trust your delayed data that you falsely claimed you had sent (as I requested) on more than one occasion, why????........it's that paranoid conspiracy thing similar to all those that must falsely accuse you of sending shills to this forum, LOL!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

When the second 'final' version simply had the counting numbers changed - but left all the conclusions the same that ticked me off more than a little bit. After ample discussions (Nash : the leverage I used is called MATH !!!!!)......

Another former auditor's two takes and/or posts on audits from the "Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged....." thread (link and one post below) pursuant to the questionable behavior of the audited and auditor(s) and thus, imo , another reason audits a farce and not worth the paper they are on.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...evidence-near-certain-proof-its-rigged.20630/

They promissed to inform the public within 2 weeks. It is now 26 days ago, since this statement was made. However, there are a lot of holidays included. Therefore, we should still wait a couple of days. From my experience as a former auditor I know that it happens relatively often in such cases, that the auditors are asked to change the wording of the report. And then it depends, whether the auditor has enough backbone to ignore such requests.

Paranoid conspiracy theories, moi not understanding , biases , my ass Enzo and Eliot........"MATH", dependent upon whether legit data , then yep Enzo would have had a right to question!!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Hi Guys,

When Nash in 2007 asked for csv versions of his logs to be audited I thought it was rather funny. His lifetime blackjack stats showed 98.66% RTP.

Kindest Regards

Enzo.

Funny to have commissioned an audit at my own expense, EH???, based on the statistic of RTP alone in 3 Dice's new proprietary software game of Blackjack, not stats btw , whereby maybe in a truly fair game that statistic should have been 98.96% or whatever%, yes???? And of course I am assuming only for the sake of arguement there is/was not anything fraudulent with the Blackjack hand history logs.

Hey Enzo just so you know (as if you did not) , if Blackjack software is not random and/or fair, it will or should fail some type of the multiple types of statistical measures available and applicable to the game of Blackjack that includes a computer et al determining each and every distribution of the cards. Furthermore in and of itself the single statistical measure of RTP in the referenced game of Blackjack above does not by any means determine fairness nor randomness as you imply. Shame on you!!.

Of course, I believe we will both agree that in order for any one or more of the multiple types of possible statistical measures to be considered or labeled a failure via an unbiased and fair audit or other reasonable and fair means, it must deviate far enough from the applicable statistical expectation.

Regards!!

 

[hitobito2005]

p.s. 4 oak, every casino on the accredited list here is third party verified, all of those casino's offer blackjack and VP games purely based on naturally shuffled deck(s) of cards. All those reports are published and free for you to download and look into. It would be _tremendously_ easy to find evidence of anything otherwise. For example in a multihand VP scenario (say 50 hands) - it would only take a couple of hundred games at most to be able to calculate a reliable stat on the division of cards.

There's a number of forums out there (I suggest aka23's beatingbonuses.com), that have ample tools and skilled math people available to help you out - time spent much more useful than through making vague suggestions and allegations without even the slightest hint of proof.

Finally, a voice of sense and reason!

 

[funeral979]

These last series of posts are a bit cloudy and quite troubling to me.

Obviously I am not privy to probably a majority of what is being alluded to here....but I doubt I will play another hand of blackjack at 3Dice until the rest of this (whatever it is) plays out.

What IS clear to me is that there are certain things about 3Dice blackjack that certain people want kept secret.

Unfortunately I didn't take my own advice. Decided to put some cash into 3Dice tonite....and, as usual, lost almost all my blackjack bets I placed that were $50+

Well, I decided enough is enough and finally had the account closed....and I really feel that a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders. For some reason things were starting to get a little personal for me with my account there. The Ego Vs. The Skeptic.

At any rate, there is something quite fishy with the blackjack game at 3Dice, apparently there always has been....and its been covered up quite well.

 

[klh374]

Unfortunately I didn't take my own advice. Decided to put some cash into 3Dice tonite....and, as usual, lost almost all my blackjack bets I placed that were $50+

Well, I decided enough is enough and finally had the account closed....and I really feel that a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders. For some reason things were starting to get a little personal for me with my account there. The Ego Vs. The Skeptic.

At any rate, there is something quite fishy with the blackjack game at 3Dice, apparently there always has been....and its been covered up quite well.

question for you-do you keep track of every hand that you play in a land-based casino?? I am an avid bj player in land-based casinos and have had both good and bad runs of luck on tables. Now I have played at 3dice as well, and i have absolutely NO reason to think that anything fishy is going on there. 3Dice blackjack treats me the same as land-based, I feel it is more along the lines of player decisions which lead to losing.
This is my opinion and from my experience, as well.
Also, I do not agree with this quite bold negative talk you seem to like to do about 3dice, obviously your experience was not good, and from what I know, you are rare!
So I will continue to stand behind 3Dice Casino-the games, the management, the support, and I will continue to support them and highly recommend new players to join and check it out for themselves!!!

 

[funeral979]

question for you-do you keep track of every hand that you play in a land-based casino?? I am an avid bj player in land-based casinos and have had both good and bad runs of luck on tables. Now I have played at 3dice as well, and i have absolutely NO reason to think that anything fishy is going on there. 3Dice blackjack treats me the same as land-based, I feel it is more along the lines of player decisions which lead to losing.
This is my opinion and from my experience, as well.
Also, I do not agree with this quite bold negative talk you seem to like to do about 3dice, obviously your experience was not good, and from what I know, you are rare!
So I will continue to stand behind 3Dice Casino-the games, the management, the support, and I will continue to support them and highly recommend new players to join and check it out for themselves!!!

Well I stated my opinion and my experienece as well. I am free to do that same as you.

And its not just 3Dice, its pretty much all softwares.....none of them deal a real game of blackjack....which is the crux of this thread, not singing the praises of such and such casino.